Vietnamese refugee kids now taking over Vietnam's growth businesses

[Handprints]

Just spent a week in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia meeting a wide variety of businesses. How modern are the economies of the latter two? Not very, although the customs inspector in Vientiane, on seeing my golf clubs, asked if I thought his 5-handicap son might be ready to switch to blades from perimeter weights...

Vietnam is significantly further along the economic development path and I thought one or two of the things I noticed there might be of interest to people who are curious about emerging economies and about modern Vietnam. If you're neither of those, this thread probably won't interest you.

For background, Vietnam, like a lot of the rest of Asia, has been operating a kind of semi-decentralised socialist economy for almost 20 years now. Regional governors and department ministers have all been charged with accelerating their patch's GDP and the amount of influence and power they have varies with the result. A few hundred of the larger publicly-owned companies have been part or fully privatised and, in most cases, the state wants someone else to run the companies, even when it holds majority control. Unlike most Asian countries, ownership isn't central or divided among a small number of government departments: a very large number of local, regional and national departments hold stakes in businesses in an almost-random allotment.

For about the last ten years - and increasingly in the past five - the children of 70s refugees have been coming back to assume senior executive positions in Vietnamese companies, many of them still in their late-20s and early 30s. Typically, they were educated at US or European universities, then went to work as investment bankers, hedge fund analysts or other jobs in the financial sector.

These men (and a few women but not many), for the past few years, have been getting offers almost as good as what they make in the US to come work in the mother country, where their dollar probably goes ten times farther. They're the ones who have been modernising the financial system, floating companies, striking the global alliances and - most interesting to me - piling the pressure on the government (national, regional and local) to get the hell out of the way and let them make the people rich.

In fact, these guys are now so highly valued in Vietnam that they are, in some cases, dictating to government what they will divest and how they will sell it. The returnees are highly networked and enjoy enormous social cohesion: they're nominating their own peers to be headhunted and making sure the new guys know the score. Everybody knows everybody in the returnee community and they're not at all afraid to borrow influence from each other to ensure that people who need leaning on feel pressure from all directions.

When one of these returnees sits down for a job interview with a multiple-government-department-owned company, they're essentially saying: "Here's how I'm going to move you guys off the share registry and if you don't like it, none of us are going to work for you."

Two of the places this is most visible are the death of the Nike sweatshop and Vietnam's outrageous success winning high-value outsourcing work from Japan. Most of the ex-outsourcers are now making own-brand goods that sell for three times cost instead of 70 times and targeting low-budget Asian consumers who get very brand-loyal very fast. When Nike comes looking for a contract, they're getting screwed to the wall (which is one of the reasons Nike's now shopping for factory space in Burma and other bottom-end markets. That's a game with a fixed clock...)

Vietnamese manufacturers, largely under the guidance of returnees, are Southeast Asia's wonder story: they've skipped through about three generations of plant to start making high-capital-intensity, high-value-added parts for Japanese auto and heavy industry. The returnees very quickly worked out that Vietnam had no Japanese axe to grind, unlike most of Asia, and no pride problems with having their efforts packaged into a (mostly) made in Japan label. They also knew that the Japanese are past masters at rebuilding old plants and training people how to use them.

The result is an economy growing at China-like speed, faster alignment of company and shareholder interests than anyone looking at the ownership structures would have believed, high-quality (if a bit young for comfort) management in more places than you'd expect to find it, and a very heavy-hitting set of political players from a very unlikely source.

And really, really, gorgeous food. Plus a couple of golf courses that show promise.

Something similar is happening in Nigeria, although the areas of returnee influence are more tightly ring-fenced. Unsurprisingly, a delegation of Nigerian government officials and businessmen were making their quarterly tour of Vietnam while I was there...

Hope that's of interest,
H

 

[amicus]

Welcome back Handprints, your appearance is once again like a breath of fresh air. Sounds like your journey went well and profitable, I assume, and that all was well upon your return.

As you may suspect, the insight you offer is not generally available on mainstream media sources here in the US, although I suspect it is in business journals and inner circle trade publications.

We hear very little of that region other than occasional veterans returning and returned remains of US military personnel from the Vietnam conflict era. The general opinion, I would surmise, is still that the area exists in poverty and communist oppression and is without hope for the future, rather like what we are told about North Korea and the suffering of the population there.

So, yes, useful information and welcomed and appreciated, at least by me.

Having read extensively of Japanese atrocities in China and throughout Asia prior to World War Two and during it, I accept with some degree of doubt as to the social attitude towards the Japanese or even the French, throughout Indo China in general. But then, generations do change, even me and mine...there was a time when I would not even ride in a German automobile or purchase a Japanese made camera, but then, I lived through the second world war and not many have those memories.

There is an oft repeated criticism of the business world, that it is amoral, dismissing ethics in favor of a profitable exchange. That really does not apply, I suppose, to your description of the market place ameliorating command market functions with free market tactics because the first does not meet expectations.

Your insight about the 'Nike' corporation and no doubt others with a history of outsourcing in the area is very interesting and I see I shall be required to look into Burma and that area to attempt to grasp an understanding of your illustrations.

I might ask, should you have knowledge, as to Muslim expansion in the entire region and what effects, if any, you foresee as a result of Islamic laws and practices.

Again, welcome back, glad to see you all frisky again on the forum.

Regards...

Amicus...

 

[Handprints]

I might ask, should you have knowledge, as to Muslim expansion in the entire region and what effects, if any, you foresee as a result of Islamic laws and practices.

Tough question - it's difficult to distinguish broadly applicable effects because there's not a lot of common ground between the two main groups of Islamic/semi-Islamic countries: the absurdly rich and the rest. Moreover, I can really only tell you about the economic effects - I have no real views on the social dimensions other than to say I wouldn't live anywhere that gave any church a meaningful say in how I could behave (including my own.)

It's a topical question as Malaysia debates adopting full-on Islamic law. Like most Commonwealth countries with large Muslim populations, Islamic law already applies to some civil and religious areas (divorce, custody, church accreditation) while British common law governs others (contracts, property, crimes with no religious element).

The willingness to debate/support the move to full Islamic law is discouraging to investors, in part because it will play merry hell with any existing contracts and obligations while the government works out how to write the new laws, in part because any claim based on a debt might be invalidated instantly, and in part because the supporters of Islamic law tend not to be very capitalist in outlook.

As a result, Malaysia's companies are taking a beating, although, to be fair, no-one likes investing in Malaysian companies. The government is capriciously interventionist, even in the smallest things; many companies there are run as family piggy banks; and there's a strong anti-non-Malaysian undercurrent in politics there that regularly erupts into "kill the white/Chinese/black man" riots.

Indonesia, although also a mismanaged (and occasional basket case) economy, with problems compounded by some of the least-transversable geography around, is doing a bit better in investors' eyes, with the overwhelming majority of political parties weighing in loudly and heatedly against the small minority of MPs who want full-bore Islamic law.

Brunei has the oil in this region, which means they can buy all the social stability they need: you need a relatively large pool of poor people for fundamentalist politics to take hold.

That leaves Pakistan and Bangladesh, who are barely blips on the economic radar. There's not much incentive for investors to look at either, regardless of religious belief, thanks to political instability and lack of infrastructure.

In Central Europe's countries with large Islamic populations, if you've got oil, you've got investors, but only for your oil businesses. The broad economic expansion is happening further west, away from the 'stans (Kazakhstan is the only real exception to that rule.)

Speaking very, very broadly, I think investors (who are primarily non-Muslim) are not very interested in native religion in theory but unhappy when there is either wholesale change in the air or significant restrictions on how they can operate. I've done my share of soliciting Dubai/Emirates money and expect to do so again.

That said, if you've got something to sell that is truly indispensable, such as oil, money will beat a path to your door, even if you're preaching jihad.

Again, welcome back, glad to see you all frisky again on the forum.

Regards...

Amicus...

Thanks - I have a quiet couple of days, I'm pleased to say.

Regards,
H

 

[amicus]

Almost breathtaking your scope of commentary and I add, appreciated.

I want to qualify something here, for you, if for no one else. I claim no scholarly knowledge of global business affairs, nor am I a professional participant, which to most is painfully evident in my shallow and naive questions.

However, I am somewhat well read and curious as to events in all fields and subjects, with a global and historical sense.

I suspect you understood all of that, or assumed it and I need not have expressed it, however...

I am also a little devious in my methods...you have inadvertently confirmed what many doubt, that Islamic Fundamentalism is a world wide movement, which by definition, which you also confirmed, is antithetical to the free and profitable exchange of goods and services.

I am aware of the Dubai and the Arab Emirates role in the undercurrent of Middle East development, less so with Brunei and Nigeria and I see I need to do some homework and research.

I add, on a personal note of my own choosing, that your input has shamed me somewhat. I retired from active combat, (smiles) some time ago, feeling I had given what I could on the larger stage.

Doubtful of my vitality to enter the fray again; I enjoy my seclusion and privacy, but your energetic involvement tempts me to engage yet again.

That said, your words brandish a double edged sword in terms of a basic amoral advocacy of the marketplace and I am hard pressed, at times, to provide a moral and ethical basis for the philosophy that underlies the concept.

That is not intended as a criticism by any means, as I also accept the concept of 'opposites', I understand the necessity of the pesky and mosquito like Left to temper the vitality of the Right, as I also view male and female relationships as complimentary and restraining on both.

Hmmm...now that I have thoroughly confused my thoughts....

amicus...

 

[Handprints]

I am also a little devious in my methods...you have inadvertently confirmed what many doubt, that Islamic Fundamentalism is a world wide movement, which by definition, which you also confirmed, is antithetical to the free and profitable exchange of goods and services.

Maybe one quick comment is worth adding: in rich Muslim countries (Brunei, Saudi, Emirates) the populations and their leadership are very bit as heartfelt and energetic in the pursuit of staying rich as a red-state oil baron. They'll meet you at least halfway on any issue and, with their money, halfway's awfully profitable.

The problem with Islamicisation of poor countries isn't so much that the religious precepts are antithetical to money-making, it's that the process often destroys or exiles the people who make economies work - professionals who liked owning material things. Where the advocates of Islamic law aren't advocating a "Year Zero" approach to social change, they tend not to scare off the money quite so quickly and this is the trick Malaysia's Muslim right wing hopes to pull off.

Where you've got nothing but poverty and incapacity (Afghanistan, say), Year Zero tends to become the only option being advocated, in part because everything else that has been tried failed.

Regards,
H

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=Handprints]Maybe one quick comment is worth adding: in rich Muslim countries (Brunei, Saudi, Emirates) the populations and their leadership are very bit as heartfelt and energetic in the pursuit of staying rich as a red-state oil baron. They'll meet you at least halfway on any issue and, with their money, halfway's awfully profitable.

The problem with Islamicisation of poor countries isn't so much that the religious precepts are antithetical to money-making, it's that the process often destroys or exiles the people who make economies work - professionals who liked owning material things. Where the advocates of Islamic law aren't advocating a "Year Zero" approach to social change, they tend not to scare off the money quite so quickly and this is the trick Malaysia's Muslim right wing hopes to pull off.

Where you've got nothing but poverty and incapacity (Afghanistan, say), Year Zero tends to become the only option being advocated, in part because everything else that has been tried failed.

Regards,
H[/QUOTE]

~~~

Hmmm...if I parse what I think you said....then there are 'degrees' of Islamification of a society with practicality playing a part?

That does widen the concept and perhaps I am mistaken in viewing fundamental Islam as comparable to fundamental Marxism, wherein, as in Russia, in 1917, a 'Zero Year', was imposed and any opposition was eliminated, as I understand were those in Vietnam when the American's left, to the tune of two million executions.

My worldview is always open to modifications but I need the logic for the expansion.

smiles....enjoy the exchange....as always...


amicus...

 

[MercyMia]

Vietnam is trying to take hold of its destiny. The people are tired of armed conflict and they want economic prosperity. They're an incredibly hard-working people. Everyone tries to practice their English on you when they discern that you are a native speaker.

 

[amicus]

Vietnam is trying to take hold of its destiny. The people are tired of armed conflict and they want economic prosperity. They're an incredibly hard-working people. Everyone tries to practice their English on you when they discern that you are a native speaker.

~~~

Hello, MercyMia...I have not seen you on the forum before but you have many, many posts...


I would like to offer to open a dialog with you if you are open to the idea, for my understanding.

To qualify, I am an American, non apologetic and fully supportive of my country, but not blind to our blunderings.

I am also vaguely aware of the history of your part of the world, although it is not complete and hopefully not entirely irrelevant as European History dominates our basic education and Asian and Indonesian history is an aside.

I have no idea of where you are coming from or the extent of your knowledge about such things and Asia is a mystery to most of us, I think.

In a thumbnail sketch, following European colonization, Japanese expansion for raw materials dominates the past hundred years of Asian history. That is simplistic, I know, but fairly accurate?

Then of course, and again, simplistic, International Communist aggression in Asia led to the South East Asia Treaty Organization, SEATO, led to confrontations in Korea and in Vietnam as containment policies imposed by the Western Powers.

The world is ever changing, I guess, and if you have read the posts of Handprints, concerning your area of the world and the responses, then perhaps you will offer a further understanding and expansion of your words...."Vietnam is trying to take hold of its destiny. The people are tired of armed conflict and they want economic prosperity. They're an incredibly hard-working people..."

I for one, would be delighted to learn.

Amicus...

 

[MercyMia]

~~~

Hello, MercyMia...I have not seen you on the forum before but you have many, many posts...


I would like to offer to open a dialog with you if you are open to the idea, for my understanding.

To qualify, I am an American, non apologetic and fully supportive of my country, but not blind to our blunderings.

I am also vaguely aware of the history of your part of the world, although it is not complete and hopefully not entirely irrelevant as European History dominates our basic education and Asian and Indonesian history is an aside.

I have no idea of where you are coming from or the extent of your knowledge about such things and Asia is a mystery to most of us, I think.

In a thumbnail sketch, following European colonization, Japanese expansion for raw materials dominates the past hundred years of Asian history. That is simplistic, I know, but fairly accurate?

Then of course, and again, simplistic, International Communist aggression in Asia led to the South East Asia Treaty Organization, SEATO, led to confrontations in Korea and in Vietnam as containment policies imposed by the Western Powers.

The world is ever changing, I guess, and if you have read the posts of Handprints, concerning your area of the world and the responses, then perhaps you will offer a further understanding and expansion of your words...."Vietnam is trying to take hold of its destiny. The people are tired of armed conflict and they want economic prosperity. They're an incredibly hard-working people..."

I for one, would be delighted to learn.

Amicus...

Hello Amicus,

I'm not very learned in history or even culture. I'm just learning geography kinesthetically in my old age.

I'm an American, too, although I have lived outside the US for nearly half of my life.

I can't agree or disagree with any simplistic statements as I have not earned that intellectual perspective.

I've talked with a few Vietnamese people and friends working in Ho Chi Minh and am impressed with the resourceful industriousness of the people living in modern Viet Nam. Carpe diem, they seem to be saying, but of course in Vietnamese. The streets appear clean and tidy. The parks are relatively well-kept. The great number of well-used motorbikes shows the population's eagerness to be ambient, and boy, how they pile passengers on those tiny vehicles. One time, I counted 6 people on a small bike: the driver (probably the husband), his pregnant wife, 3 children and an old woman.

Handprints is accurate about the food--Vietnamese cuisine is wonderful and healthy to boot. It's spicy but you can adapt that to your preferences. It incorporates a lot of fresh, raw vegetables, a bit of pork and chicken, some fish and rice paper wrappers. Would that Americans could eat half as nutritiously and in as sane a balance of ingredients.

What is your particular interest in Southeast Asia, amicus? Just a general curiousity? Are you a historian? A teacher? A journalist?

Cheers,
Mia

 

[amicus]

Hello Amicus,

I'm not very learned in history or even culture. I'm just learning geography kinesthetically in my old age.

I'm an American, too, although I have lived outside the US for nearly half of my life.

I can't agree or disagree with any simplistic statements as I have not earned that intellectual perspective.

I've talked with a few Vietnamese people and friends working in Ho Chi Minh and am impressed with the resourceful industriousness of the people living in modern Viet Nam. Carpe diem, they seem to be saying, but of course in Vietnamese. The streets appear clean and tidy. The parks are relatively well-kept. The great number of well-used motorbikes shows the population's eagerness to be ambient, and boy, how they pile passengers on those tiny vehicles. One time, I counted 6 people on a small bike: the driver (probably the husband), his pregnant wife, 3 children and an old woman.

Handprints is accurate about the food--Vietnamese cuisine is wonderful and healthy to boot. It's spicy but you can adapt that to your preferences. It incorporates a lot of fresh, raw vegetables, a bit of pork and chicken, some fish and rice paper wrappers. Would that Americans could eat half as nutritiously and in as sane a balance of ingredients.

What is your particular interest in Southeast Asia, amicus? Just a general curiousity? Are you a historian? A teacher? A journalist?

Cheers,
Mia

~~~

Hello, Mia, very pleased to meet you.

I was educated in Philosophy,History and Economics, but found them dust dry and not appealing for a professional career and turned to Journalism, print, radio and television instead, just to answer your inquiry.

Just to illustrate the chasm between our viewpoints, the hair on the back of my neck rises at the mention of "Ho Chi Minh" city, instead of Saigon. Over 50,000 American lives were lost in the 'Vietnam conflict', not even a war, and I mourn those losses still and the upheaval it brought about in my country.

Your, "Carpe' Diem" comment rather confirms Handprint's assessment of modern Vietnam and I think I have a handle on understanding that, although it is complex in view of the culture of that area, as I understand it, with all the modern modifications.

I do have some small personal contact with Vietnamese culture, from North Portland in Oregon, where refugee's after the collapse, emigrated and became part of the culture and also in Biloxi, Mississippi, where a local convenience store I frequented was owned by Vietnamese and I learned of the close family relationships and also their aversion to American influence and that they protected their daughters very carefully. (smiles)

Motor bikes and bicycles...sighs...I was amazed, a long time ago, during my, 'young man's' tour of Europe, to discover the number of people who utilized those means of transportation while American's all drove automobiles. I think, without being cruel, that a more sophisticated society chooses not to ride motor bikes and bikes to work, and that that will most likely evolve as we have.

It is quite the same with the diet or food selections of American's and other parts of the less developed world. Obesity 'seems' to be, becoming a problem in America, and perhaps other modern nations as well. I have no quick answers or solutions to that. I do know, that a very fast paced society, such as ours, has such stringent demands on time, that 'fast foods', become an integral part of our culture. Perhaps it is a transitional thing that must be actively dealt with, as people work at more and more less physically demanding endeavors...dunno...

Hmmm...well, scanning back, I see I have left nothing to elicit a reply, merely given you my perspective...perhaps you will just expand on your original post and tell us more about the culture of Vietnam?

Regards...


Amicus...

 

[cloudy]

perhaps you will just expand on your original post and tell us more about the culture of Vietnam?

Perhaps if you were a little nicer, FatDino would answer any questions you have. That's where she's from.

I realize that's asking a lot of you, though.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Fascinating, Handprints. Welcome back and thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Handprints]

Fascinating, Handprints. Welcome back and thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.

Thanks - glad you like. I'll be even happier at midnight, when I get to leave work...

H

 

[FatDino]

Just to illustrate the chasm between our viewpoints, the hair on the back of my neck rises at the mention of "Ho Chi Minh" city, instead of Saigon. Over 50,000 American lives were lost in the 'Vietnam conflict', not even a war, and I mourn those losses still and the upheaval it brought about in my country.

Maybe if you think about how many Vietnamese lives were lost in that 'conflict,' which could have been a 'war' if the American government had admitted their military involvement in the country, you would mourn for our loss too. The name 'Ho Chi Minh' was given to the city after the brutal Southern Vietnamese government was over-thrown, much to most Vietnamese's pleasure at the time. Believe it or not, we're calling the city's name with pride and gratitude - proud of our survival (not victory because there's no winner in a war) after two bloody wars against the two most powerful countries in the world at the time; grateful to Ho Chi Minh and the founding fathers for giving us freedom and independence.

Your, "Carpe' Diem" comment rather confirms Handprint's assessment of modern Vietnam and I think I have a handle on understanding that, although it is complex in view of the culture of that area, as I understand it, with all the modern modifications.

The culture of Vietnam is rather simple and easy to understand, but you'll have to erase any thinking that it's a country full of conflicts, killings, hatred, and lowly educated people. In fact, 99% of the population are literate and every kid is required to finish at least grade school, which is from first grade to fifth grade. The crime rate in Ho Chi Minh is lower than Cincinnatti, and Ho Chi Minh's population is 6 and a half millions. We hold a grudge against the Diem's government because they were brutal and because they caused tens of years of separation between the two parts of the country. We don't hold a grudge against the Americans, believe it or not.

I do have some small personal contact with Vietnamese culture, from North Portland in Oregon, where refugee's after the collapse, emigrated and became part of the culture and also in Biloxi, Mississippi, where a local convenience store I frequented was owned by Vietnamese and I learned of the close family relationships and also their aversion to American influence and that they protected their daughters very carefully. (smiles)

Being protective of our children is a traditional trait that we inherit from our ancestors thousands of years ago. It didn't just start because of the Americans...don't think too big of yourself. Like I said above, we don't hold a grudge against the Americans for the war, what's in the past is in the past. My parents let me take my scholarship to spend my 11th grade to an America high school, in an American city, living with an American family. My host father is a veteran from the Vietnam 'conflict' and he has come back to the country for visits many times. In fact, he just went there this summer. No one came up to him with a knife to avenge. No one screamed when they saw him. No one spat on him. As long as you're a nice visitor, meaning you don't stand in the middle of the streets, screaming this country sucks out the ass, I don't think you'll get anything thrown at you while you're there.

Motor bikes and bicycles...sighs...I was amazed, a long time ago, during my, 'young man's' tour of Europe, to discover the number of people who utilized those means of transportation while American's all drove automobiles. I think, without being cruel, that a more sophisticated society chooses not to ride motor bikes and bikes to work, and that that will most likely evolve as we have.

More and more people are buying cars there. In fact, my family has a Toyota van, and two scooters. We just don't take our 4-wheel vehicles around the city. We use them when we need to go some place far. That's called saving gasoline.

It is quite the same with the diet or food selections of American's and other parts of the less developed world. Obesity 'seems' to be, becoming a problem in America, and perhaps other modern nations as well. I have no quick answers or solutions to that. I do know, that a very fast paced society, such as ours, has such stringent demands on time, that 'fast foods', become an integral part of our culture. Perhaps it is a transitional thing that must be actively dealt with, as people work at more and more less physically demanding endeavors...dunno...

We have KFC and McDonald's in Vietnam.......and I'll blame you Americans if obesity becomes a problem there in a few years.

We don't eat 'healthy' because we can't afford meat and cholesterol. I'm a meat lover and I can't go by a day without eating some meat, and still, I'm as tiny as I can be. Cloudy, Grace, Dampy, Caro, Misty and a couple others can confirm that. It is in our genetic builds that we don't tend to gain too much weight. It is in our traditional cuisine that we don't tend to eat too fatty food, or preserved food, or frozen food.

perhaps you will just expand on your original post and tell us more about the culture of Vietnam?

I think my post has just replied to yours, and also gives you a little more info about where I come from.

 

[FatDino]

For Amicus: This is my scooter in Vietnam, only in black instead of red.
http://powersports.honda.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/Scooters/2007/small/Helix.jpg

This is my parents', in the same color.
http://www.speed-sports.com/shop/images/Piaggio_X9-256.jpg

I forget the model of the van, but it was manufactured in 2003.

We aren't as unsophisticated as you think.

 

[Handprints]

We don't eat 'healthy' because we can't afford meat and cholesterol. I'm a meat lover and I can't go by a day without eating some meat, and still, I'm as tiny as I can be. Cloudy, Grace, Dampy, Caro, Misty and a couple others can confirm that. It is in our genetic builds that we don't tend to gain too much weight. It is in our traditional cuisine that we don't tend to eat too fatty food, or preserved food, or frozen food.

I ate like a pig for six days, much to the amusement of several street stall owners, who watched me order one portion, then another, then another, then another... In fact, I'm fairly sure I ate at least one whole pig. You cannot get Vietnamese food that good outside Vietnam - it's like drinking Guinness in Dublin.

Can one get fat on Vietnamese food? I did my best but a punishing schedule of golf and (non-punishing, attending but not committing, bad Handprints!) gym time meant I lost about four pounds, despite utter gluttony.

If I'm ever offered a last meal, it's going to be pho do bien.

Regards,
H

 

[FatDino]

I ate like a pig for six days, much to the amusement of several street stall owners, who watched me order one portion, then another, then another, then another... In fact, I'm fairly sure I ate at least one whole pig. You cannot get Vietnamese food that good outside Vietnam - it's like drinking Guinness in Dublin.

Can one get fat on Vietnamese food? I did my best but a punishing schedule of golf and (non-punishing, attending but not committing, bad Handprints!) gym time meant I lost about four pounds, despite utter gluttony.

If I'm ever offered a last meal, it's going to be pho do bien.

Regards,
H

Dampy and Caro said yesterday that I was always hungry and that's true. I eat a lot, I just can't much weight.

And all this talk about food is making me hungry...and homesick. Maybe I'll make fish for today.

Mmmm, pho do bien.......where did you have it?

 

[Handprints]

Dampy and Caro said yesterday that I was always hungry and that's true. I eat a lot, I just can't much weight.

And all this talk about food is making me hungry...and homesick. Maybe I'll make fish for today.

Mmmm, pho do bien.......where did you have it?

Ho Chi Minh, but more specifically than that, I have no idea - the chap I was meeting for lunch picked me up and drove us about 20 minutes southwest from the corner of Cach Mang Thang Tam and Nguyen Thi Minh Kai into an area filled with little office blocks. The restaurant was mostly outdoor tables in a sort of trapezoidal space between two buildings with a beach-hut-themed kitchen and counter (life preserver and painted eel decor.)

Fantastic place with great food and beer so cold it made your head hurt. Also, I suspect, not one where sunburnt, suit-wearing westerners frequently turn up and ask for a third bowl of pho... The waitress thought I was joking.

Regards,
H

 

[FatDino]

Ho Chi Minh, but more specifically than that, I have no idea - the chap I was meeting for lunch picked me up and drove us about 20 minutes southwest from the corner of Cach Mang Thang Tam and Nguyen Thi Minh Kai into an area filled with little office blocks. The restaurant was mostly outdoor tables in a sort of trapezoidal space between two buildings with a beach-hut-themed kitchen and counter (life preserver and painted eel decor.)

Fantastic place with great food and beer so cold it made your head hurt. Also, I suspect, not one where sunburnt, suit-wearing westerners frequently turn up and ask for a third bowl of pho... The waitress thought I was joking.

Regards,
H

I know the streets, used to race there all the time after school.

 

[Handprints]

I know the streets, used to race there all the time after school.

Race is the right word. At the risk of suggesting that you may have omitted one important Vietnamese cultural characteristic from your list above, is there a particular reason why young Vietnamese women prefer to dice with death on scooters? Wouldn't base jumping or chainsaw juggling be just as effective?

The scooters I get, the couldn't-pay-a-stuntman-to-try-it acts of vehicular faith I don't. I learned to drive in Rome and I live in Shanghai, both of which have hardened me to near-death driving experiences.

That said, if one of them had offered me a ride...

H

 

[FatDino]

Race is the right word. At the risk of suggesting that you may have omitted one important Vietnamese cultural characteristic from your list above, is there a particular reason why young Vietnamese women prefer to dice with death on scooters? Wouldn't base jumping or chainsaw juggling be just as effective?

The scooters I get, the couldn't-pay-a-stuntman-to-try-it acts of vehicular faith I don't. I learned to drive in Rome and I live in Shanghai, both of which have hardened me to near-death driving experiences.

That said, if one of them had offered me a ride...

H

Not all young women liked to ride fast...at least not my friends. I once had a girl on the back seat and I scared her for life.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not all young women liked to ride fast...at least not my friends. I once had a girl on the back seat and I scared her for life.

You are such a bad girl-- come here and be spanked.

Handprints, thank you for starting this thread, and Dino, thank you for sharing your life with us

 

[FatDino]

You are such a bad girl-- come here and be spanked.

Handprints, thank you for starting this thread, and Dino, thank you for sharing your life with us

Ooh ooh! I get Stella's spanking!!!

My life in Vietnam was boring until I started 7th grade, which was when my parents started letting me go out with my friends.

 

[MercyMia]

Hi Handprints and hello FatDino,

Now I'm confused--FatD, do you live in Vietnam or outside of it?

And amicus, I'm not Vietnamese at all and as I said I am not expert in history or culture of anywhere so no, I won't be able to elucidate any further.

When I visited Beijing in 1994, the most popular mode of transport was the bicycle. I know things have changed radically since then. I agree, FatDino, that in the near future, Vietnam will probably have more and more cars.

I don't understand why people get so hung up on motorcyclists in Ho Chi Minh or other cities--it's been my experience that the drivers are more cautious than motorcyclists in countries like the US where it's "cool" and "hip" to have a hog. In Vietnam, even though first impressions of vehicular traffic were that it was chaotic, after a day of crossing the streets amid the non-ending flow of bikes, I learned that there is a nonverbal system and understanding between drivers and pedestrians. It does take much more observation than in other places, but it was logical and efficient.

I'm terrible at remembering the names of the food I liked, but one was the fish cooked 7 ways and then you made your own wrap with vegetables, sauces and rice paper noodles. Okay, now I'm drooling.

 

[FatDino]

Hi Handprints and hello FatDino,

Now I'm confused--FatD, do you live in Vietnam or outside of it?

And amicus, I'm not Vietnamese at all and as I said I am not expert in history or culture of anywhere so no, I won't be able to elucidate any further.

When I visited Beijing in 1994, the most popular mode of transport was the bicycle. I know things have changed radically since then. I agree, FatDino, that in the near future, Vietnam will probably have more and more cars.

I don't understand why people get so hung up on motorcyclists in Ho Chi Minh or other cities--it's been my experience that the drivers are more cautious than motorcyclists in countries like the US where it's "cool" and "hip" to have a hog. In Vietnam, even though first impressions of vehicular traffic were that it was chaotic, after a day of crossing the streets amid the non-ending flow of bikes, I learned that there is a nonverbal system and understanding between drivers and pedestrians. It does take much more observation than in other places, but it was logical and efficient.

I'm terrible at remembering the names of the food I liked, but one was the fish cooked 7 ways and then you made your own wrap with vegetables, sauces and rice paper noodles. Okay, now I'm drooling.

Hi MercyMia.

I'm 100% Vietnamese, born and raised right in Ho Chi Minh. But now I'm going to university in Canada. I left there because I took up a scholarship to attend an American high school for my 11th grade. Then I moved to the Great White North because I secretly have a polar bear fetish.

The reason motorcycles are so big in Vietnam is because of the way the roads are built, and the way the city was designed decades ago. It was built mostly by the French in the 20's. And yes on the nonverbal exchange between drivers and pedestrians, also between drivers themselves, which is why I could ride 40mph in the city during rush hour without crashing.