Victory! The USSR has CRUSHED Nazi Germany!
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riff
Jose Jones
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tswyk said:Riff -
I'm just never quite sure how to respond to your threads - but I think you must be a very interesting person to know!
And I like your kitty, it's beautiful.
Thank you, and I get pretty weirded out just getting to know myself, I can imagine what other people must think! LOL
riff
Jose Jones
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ah, wiseguy.... eh?
Do you know how many people the NAZIs brutally murdered in the Soviet Union?
Stalin may have killed more of his own people than Hitler killed of his own, but Hitler killed more Soviets than anyone.
Zukhov wanted to capture Hitler alive. They were going to put him in a cage and parade him through Red Square. Jesus, could you imagine that?
Everywhere thoughout Russia are memorials to the Soviet dead. Being a state that sponsored aetheism, new couples were encouraged to go to the memorials. When I was in Moscow I was at a memorial and you could see young men and women together.... it's still a tradition.
It makes me cringe when I think of what happened over there to people that just wanted to live and love and have families. Shit.....
Slavic people were sub-human to the Nazis. They didn't have to be Jewish to get killed.
Do you know how many people the NAZIs brutally murdered in the Soviet Union?
Stalin may have killed more of his own people than Hitler killed of his own, but Hitler killed more Soviets than anyone.
Zukhov wanted to capture Hitler alive. They were going to put him in a cage and parade him through Red Square. Jesus, could you imagine that?
Everywhere thoughout Russia are memorials to the Soviet dead. Being a state that sponsored aetheism, new couples were encouraged to go to the memorials. When I was in Moscow I was at a memorial and you could see young men and women together.... it's still a tradition.
It makes me cringe when I think of what happened over there to people that just wanted to live and love and have families. Shit.....
Slavic people were sub-human to the Nazis. They didn't have to be Jewish to get killed.
riff said:
The Nazi killed people wherever they went. There were just more Soviets to kill than other peoples.
I love WWII history, fascinating stuff. Did you see the HBO special called Brothers? I think it was called that...very cool series.
navarre
Literotica Guru
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riff said:ah, wiseguy.... eh?
Do you know how many people the NAZIs brutally murdered in the Soviet Union?
Stalin may have killed more of his own people than Hitler killed of his own, but Hitler killed more Soviets than anyone.
Zukhov wanted to capture Hitler alive. They were going to put him in a cage and parade him through Red Square. Jesus, could you imagine that?
Everywhere thoughout Russia are memorials to the Soviet dead. Being a state that sponsored aetheism, new couples were encouraged to go to the memorials. When I was in Moscow I was at a memorial and you could see young men and women together.... it's still a tradition.
It makes me cringe when I think of what happened over there to people that just wanted to live and love and have families. Shit.....
Slavic people were sub-human to the Nazis. They didn't have to be Jewish to get killed.
Even today when young couples get married they first go to the Lennin Hills in front of Moscow University and throw flowers over the hill. Then they go to the Black Star Monument (that's their 'tomb of the unknown soldier') and lay flowers on the tomb.
<that's where I met my ex>
*groan*
QuickDuck
God
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it was a race between the Allies in the west and the Russians from the East.
Patton was not made to wait (and the character he was, he would not have waitied anyway).
The russians won the race.
Unfortunately, as Lavender pointed out, the victors write the history books.
/wave
QuickDuck
Patton was not made to wait (and the character he was, he would not have waitied anyway).
The russians won the race.
Unfortunately, as Lavender pointed out, the victors write the history books.
/wave
QuickDuck
Problem Child
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Heterotic is right.
The Allies fighting in the west could have gotten into Berlin sooner and with less resistance, and many leaders urged them to do so, such as Churchill and Montgomery. Paton was not so much held back as he was given a different set of orders from Eisenhower, although in his mind it those orders were a mistake.
The British and Americans were in a position to go into Berlin a few days before the russians could have, but the decision had already been made to partition Germany and Berlin just meant more to the Russians than it did to the rest of the Allies. It was a huge symbolic victory for them, and they were capable of taking it themselves, albeit at a cost of over a million men.
Eisenhower made the decision to let the Russians have Berlin, so while it may have been a race to Germany, Berlin was pretty much decided to be the Russians prize. Eisenhower felt that the western allies could be more useful making sure Hitler didn't try and regroup and launch a final counter-attack from southern Germany.
The Allies fighting in the west could have gotten into Berlin sooner and with less resistance, and many leaders urged them to do so, such as Churchill and Montgomery. Paton was not so much held back as he was given a different set of orders from Eisenhower, although in his mind it those orders were a mistake.
The British and Americans were in a position to go into Berlin a few days before the russians could have, but the decision had already been made to partition Germany and Berlin just meant more to the Russians than it did to the rest of the Allies. It was a huge symbolic victory for them, and they were capable of taking it themselves, albeit at a cost of over a million men.
Eisenhower made the decision to let the Russians have Berlin, so while it may have been a race to Germany, Berlin was pretty much decided to be the Russians prize. Eisenhower felt that the western allies could be more useful making sure Hitler didn't try and regroup and launch a final counter-attack from southern Germany.
SleepingWarrior
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riff said:
Wouldn't have been that much longer. The A-bomb was almost ready by the time Germany fell. Would we have used it against Germany though, thats highly debatable.
Problem Child
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Zamdrist-
It was a political decision, made at Yalta by the Big Three. It was already decided. Eisenhower's thinking was this: Why should more Americans and Brits go and die in Berlin when the Russians want it so badly and are willing to spend their own lives to get it? The Russians lost over a million men, just in taking Berlin. Eisenhower figured we would have lost around 100,000 in helping them, plus we had other areas to mop up. To him it made no sense to waste American and British lives over a peice of ground we were going to have to give up anyway, meaning east Berlin and East Germany.
Riff-
No shit, and I mean that seriously. The U.S. lost just over 400,000 men in WWII and that's including those that dies in the Pacific. The Russians lost 11 million. We killed 800,000 Germans- They killed 2.5 million.
For every American soldier that died in Europe, the Russians lost 80.
The price they paid is almost beyond comprehension. I think there is an argument to be made that if the Russians had stayed out of the war (not been attacked) we never would have gotten in to Europe without using nuclear weapons.
Some Major Differences Between The War in the East and the West
Eisenhower Institute
It was a political decision, made at Yalta by the Big Three. It was already decided. Eisenhower's thinking was this: Why should more Americans and Brits go and die in Berlin when the Russians want it so badly and are willing to spend their own lives to get it? The Russians lost over a million men, just in taking Berlin. Eisenhower figured we would have lost around 100,000 in helping them, plus we had other areas to mop up. To him it made no sense to waste American and British lives over a peice of ground we were going to have to give up anyway, meaning east Berlin and East Germany.
Riff-
No shit, and I mean that seriously. The U.S. lost just over 400,000 men in WWII and that's including those that dies in the Pacific. The Russians lost 11 million. We killed 800,000 Germans- They killed 2.5 million.
For every American soldier that died in Europe, the Russians lost 80.
The price they paid is almost beyond comprehension. I think there is an argument to be made that if the Russians had stayed out of the war (not been attacked) we never would have gotten in to Europe without using nuclear weapons.
Some Major Differences Between The War in the East and the West
- In Europe Hitler's goal was to conquer and subjugate populations. In the USSR his written goal was annihilation of everyone suspected of being capable of resistance and depopulation of the rest by starvation.
- For every American soldier killed fighting the Germans, eighty Soviet soldiers died fighting them.
- The USSR was the only theatre of war in which Einsatzgruppen task forces were used to follow the combat troops and kill civilians.
- People, measured in the millions, were forced to starve because their livestock was sent to Germany and their grain was used to feed the 6.7 million horses needed to transport Wehrmacht artillery and supplies.
- In the west, prisoners were generally fed and housed by both sides. In the USSR both sides killed their prisoners by forced labor, malnutrition and unattended disease.
- In the west, the generals, on both sides, usually tried to use tactics of encirclement with the goal being to capture the enemy. In the war in the east the tactics were predominately frontal assaults on the ground with the only goal being to kill the enemy.
- Many historians, from Liddell Hart to Harrison Salisbury, have speculated that the unprecedented savagery of the war fought in the USSR between 1941 and 1945 led to the national paranoia-the "never again" mentality. For those who remembered the war, any cold war policy that would repel any future aggressor on their soil- or discourage any group of nations from contemplating it-was an acceptable sacrifice. It was not until the first-hand memory of the Great Patriotic War had faded among the ruling elite that the country was capable of contemplating perestroika and a new strategy for integrating a new Russia into the international community.
Eisenhower Institute
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seXieleXie
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today russians celebrated with parades, and the chechnyans celebrated by killing some russians
seXieleXie
trouble
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i still wanna smooch your av
It's almost impossible to comprehend the suffering that occured on the Eastern Front. I read a book by John Keegan and he said that, fifty years from now, the story of World War II will be largely the story of the German-Russian conflict. The fighting in North Africa, Italy, France, Great Britain, and the Pacific, as terrible as it was, doesn't match the scale or violence of the war in the East. As more and more Soviet archives are opened by the Russians, we'll learn more and more about what happened during that horrible time.
If the Russians lost 11 million soldiers in the war, they lost more civilians. I think the total usually given for Soviet deaths is 28 million. Then you remember that Stalin killed between 8-15 million of his own people BEFORE the war.
I've read a lot about the war, and there was one story I read about that really stuck in my memory. There was a woman who lived with her family in this poor village in the Ukraine. During the period when Stalin used starvation as a weapon against the Ukranians three of her children died. Then the war came. The Germans occupied the village, took everything of value, demolished all the buildings, fouled the well. Her family had to live in a hole they dug in the side of a hill.
As the Germans continued their advance groups of Soviet guerrillas roamed in the rear, attacking supply trains, going after vulnerable concentrations of German troops, that sort of thing. These guerrillas would come into what was left of their village and demand food, water, and whatever else they felt like taking. The woman and her young daughter were repeatedly gang-raped by these guerrillas, and they took her eldest son away to fight.
The tide of war turned, and the Germans retreated, again destroying everything in their path. They welcomed the Soviet troops as their liberators. They didn't know that, to Stalin, the fact that they had spent time behind enemy lines meant that they were politically polluted. So her entire family was arrested and shipped to Siberia and the gulag. Everyone in her family died in the camps except for her. She wasn't released for 15 years., not till after Stalin died.
And that's a story that was repeated millions of times during that struggle. There was absolutely no quarter given, atrocities of an unimaginable scale, and it went on, and on, and on.
If the Russians lost 11 million soldiers in the war, they lost more civilians. I think the total usually given for Soviet deaths is 28 million. Then you remember that Stalin killed between 8-15 million of his own people BEFORE the war.
I've read a lot about the war, and there was one story I read about that really stuck in my memory. There was a woman who lived with her family in this poor village in the Ukraine. During the period when Stalin used starvation as a weapon against the Ukranians three of her children died. Then the war came. The Germans occupied the village, took everything of value, demolished all the buildings, fouled the well. Her family had to live in a hole they dug in the side of a hill.
As the Germans continued their advance groups of Soviet guerrillas roamed in the rear, attacking supply trains, going after vulnerable concentrations of German troops, that sort of thing. These guerrillas would come into what was left of their village and demand food, water, and whatever else they felt like taking. The woman and her young daughter were repeatedly gang-raped by these guerrillas, and they took her eldest son away to fight.
The tide of war turned, and the Germans retreated, again destroying everything in their path. They welcomed the Soviet troops as their liberators. They didn't know that, to Stalin, the fact that they had spent time behind enemy lines meant that they were politically polluted. So her entire family was arrested and shipped to Siberia and the gulag. Everyone in her family died in the camps except for her. She wasn't released for 15 years., not till after Stalin died.
And that's a story that was repeated millions of times during that struggle. There was absolutely no quarter given, atrocities of an unimaginable scale, and it went on, and on, and on.
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