Vanishing Votes

[fridayam]

A few days ago I noticed something odd on one of my poems: I am not a vote-nerd, and I should say that straight away! I put up a poem called "A big thing in a small place" and the first person to vote (but not comment) gave it a 1.00, which is fair enough. A day later, the lovely Esperanza Hidalgo left a sweet comment on the poem and I guess a vote of 4.00 as the tally was 3.00 with two votes. Two days later, the vote had gone, but not the comment, so I was back to 1.00. I contacted one of our mods about this, alerting her to a problem. Bizarrely, the same night, another writer left a nice comment on the same poem and presumably a similar vote as I was back to 3.00 again.

This morning that vote has gone too (back to 1.00 with 1 vote but two nice comments) and not only that but three other of my poems going back to April have lost all their votes!

I really think something odd is going on with the voting system at Lit and I would like to ask all of you to check your recent scores. I know some of you scorn the use of votes, but I ask you to put yourself in the position of a newbie who might need the encouragement of a system I don't think can be trusted any more.

Steve x

 

[nerk]

I have less votes for my story today than I did yesterday. I'm ok with it, because my average went up.
The thing that really freaks me out is that the story has fewer views than it did. I assumed that the Feds were out to get me until I saw your post. Are they out to get you, too?

 

[fridayam]

No, Nerk, no one's out to get me, nor you. The voting system is fucked. There is a wee difference.

 

[nerk]

Just because the voting system is fucked, doesn't mean they're not out to get me. Obviously the government has been tampering with the voting system. Just like they do in elections.

Paranoia aside, I think there has recently been a shift in the way they do the voting, this may account for it, in some way. I still recommend blaming the government, just for the sheer joy of pitting yourself against *** ********* *** **** *** ***** *** *** *******

 

[Tzara]

A few days ago I noticed something odd on one of my poems: I am not a vote-nerd, and I should say that straight away! I put up a poem called "A big thing in a small place" and the first person to vote (but not comment) gave it a 1.00, which is fair enough. A day later, the lovely Esperanza Hidalgo left a sweet comment on the poem and I guess a vote of 4.00 as the tally was 3.00 with two votes. Two days later, the vote had gone, but not the comment, so I was back to 1.00. I contacted one of our mods about this, alerting her to a problem. Bizarrely, the same night, another writer left a nice comment on the same poem and presumably a similar vote as I was back to 3.00 again.

This morning that vote has gone too (back to 1.00 with 1 vote but two nice comments) and not only that but three other of my poems going back to April have lost all their votes!

I really think something odd is going on with the voting system at Lit and I would like to ask all of you to check your recent scores. I know some of you scorn the use of votes, but I ask you to put yourself in the position of a newbie who might need the encouragement of a system I don't think can be trusted any more.

Steve x

Literotica has a periodic batch process that "scrubs" votes on stories and poems. The intent, I think, is to try and make the ratings more accurate, as people have been known to get a story or poem up on the site and then immediately and repeatedly vote 5s on it, trying to raise its score to get an "H" or to get on the top list. Other people will drop 1s on stories/poems, either to drop them in the lists or simply because they don't like the author.

The batch process will remove votes, based on some criteria that aren't made public. I think the effect of this is exaggerated with poems because so few people vote on poems.

Anyway, it's another reason why some authors don't pay a lot of attention to the voting score, or turn voting off altogether. I always leave mine turned on because I find the results kind of interesting, but I don't really much care what the actual averages are.

 

[Angeline]

Votes and the rating system here mean very little when you consider that many people get good ratings (or on the top lists) simply by having their "alts" and/or friends give high scores. Similarly, I've seen groups of "Lit friends" band together to "1-bomb" a poem or story so that the one they want (poem, story, fill in the blank) gets an H or onto a top list.

So I guess if you enjoy meaningless competition, it's a great game. Unlike Tzara, I've never turned votes off on my poems here, but I really don't care what ratings they get or whether people vote for them or not. What has been immeasurably helpful to me over the years are the comments/feedback I've received about my poetry. I've learned and grown as a result of that--the votes, not so much (or erm, not at all)

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I hadn't checked for a while, so just did. As far as I can tell, all the comments and votes seem to be holding steady. I like high scores, but don't pay much attention. Just would like feedback.

 

[darkerdreamer]

Just did an offhand check after seeing this post and saw what I remember of my ratings seemed consistent, then again they've only been up a couple of years.

Take it like Ang and Tzara said, rating means little on Lit, even less on poetry since there are far fewer readers. In depth comments mean way more, especially considering how many people alt-vote or auto-vote someone at 1 or 5. MET all over again, though MNS did make me laugh sometimes.

 

[normal jean]

A few days ago I noticed something odd on one of my poems: I am not a vote-nerd, and I should say that straight away! I put up a poem called "A big thing in a small place" and the first person to vote (but not comment) gave it a 1.00, which is fair enough. A day later, the lovely Esperanza Hidalgo left a sweet comment on the poem and I guess a vote of 4.00 as the tally was 3.00 with two votes. Two days later, the vote had gone, but not the comment, so I was back to 1.00. I contacted one of our mods about this, alerting her to a problem. Bizarrely, the same night, another writer left a nice comment on the same poem and presumably a similar vote as I was back to 3.00 again.

This morning that vote has gone too (back to 1.00 with 1 vote but two nice comments) and not only that but three other of my poems going back to April have lost all their votes!

I really think something odd is going on with the voting system at Lit and I would like to ask all of you to check your recent scores. I know some of you scorn the use of votes, but I ask you to put yourself in the position of a newbie who might need the encouragement of a system I don't think can be trusted any more.

Steve x

Steve,

Don't fret, this bizarre vote culling has been going on since I have been here and I joined as Maria2394 in 2002. Seems to me that honest , legit comments, be they good or bad, ( but not hateful or ugly) should remain along with the votes.

I am all for deleting multiple votes from one IP address or user whose intent is merely to trash your work. The system is quirky, I hate for it to distress anyone, especially you, I have enjoyed your correspondence, PM me, I have a new email I do not care to make public here.

hugs,
julie

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

It upsets me

Perhaps I am being childish, but it upsets me. The issue is resolved by having people register to vote. I have reached a point where I am looking for alternative locations to post. The removals seem arbitrary.

I understand most of this is due to my fragile ego, but damn, I put so much of myself into stories, and to see them one bombed, or good scores removed is frustrating. Poems do not bother me as much, because the vote totals are so low anyway, but with stories, when you have over 50 votes and almost all fives with a couple of 1's, it sinks a score. Then when the minor votes are not removed, it is frustrating. I wish lit would thread an explanation of this process. It is easily resolved--make people register to vote like most places do.

I think it comes down to money. This is a great site for attracting readers, but you do not know if a low score has anything to do with the quality of your work. I am a better writer than poet. I know what I am writing is of quality (ask me, I'll tell you *smile*)

Lit Gods, whoever you are, please respond. I do not want cheating either, but something is fishy.

 

[fridayam]

I love Espey's passion and I feel for her, but I think she (and most of the people who have replied) have missed the point. Tzara talks about occasional "scrubbing" of votes--I understand that, but can he or anyone explain my original example: a poem that has had only three votes over a short period--a 1, a 4 (deleted) then another 4 (also deleted but two days later). How does this tally with "periodic scrubbing"?

I have raised this issue with one of the mods and I await an answer, but I have to agree with Espey that something stinks here.

 

[Tzara]

Perhaps I am being childish, but it upsets me. The issue is resolved by having people register to vote. I have reached a point where I am looking for alternative locations to post. The removals seem arbitrary.

They do seem quite arbitrary and, in my experience, are quite arbitrary. It's a very difficult thing to automate, trying to determine from voting patterns who is being a jerk, either positively or negatively, on a story or poem. I don't see how registering to vote fixes that. I have so many alts I can't keep track of them (not created for voting, if I even need to say that), and I know that people in the past have gone so far as to visit different WiFi spots just to get a different IP for voting.

Silly, I think, but then I think the voting is, as I said, largely silly. Kind of interesting, but not important.

To me. Obviously it is to you, and I don't want to be demeaning about that.

I understand most of this is due to my fragile ego, but damn, I put so much of myself into stories, and to see them one bombed, or good scores removed is frustrating. Poems do not bother me as much, because the vote totals are so low anyway, but with stories, when you have over 50 votes and almost all fives with a couple of 1's, it sinks a score. Then when the minor votes are not removed, it is frustrating. I wish lit would thread an explanation of this process. It is easily resolved--make people register to vote like most places do.

I won't say all writers have fragile egos--that's probably too simplistic a statement to not easily be proven false--but most of them/us do. Even famous ones. So you're not alone there.

Part of the problem I have with your statement, though, just on the face of it is that it seems to imply that if a story has "almost all fives" someone voting a one is somehow slamming you unfairly. It could be that they just really didn't like the story and, if so, should that vote not be counted because it clobbers your score?

My suggestion (and it is, of course, only a suggestion and may not work for you) is that you try and get past worrying about your votes. The voting, at best, might give you some idea of how a sample of people who care enough, for whatever reason, to vote on your story might think about it. It might give you a little comparative sense among several stories, for example--that people seem to like "Story X" better than "Story Y." To my mind, that is all it does.

Is it hurtful when some anonymous nitwit pees on your story or poem with a 1 vote? Yeah, of course it does. It's much worse when an editor does, or especially when you get some generic rejection slip that just says something like "we cannot use your submission at this time, but thanks for considering XXX."

Writing is about being banged in the head by all kinds of people, but believing in yourself and what you have to say enough to keep doing it.

So believe in yourself and keep doing it. Here or elsewhere.

I think it comes down to money. This is a great site for attracting readers, but you do not know if a low score has anything to do with the quality of your work. I am a better writer than poet. I know what I am writing is of quality (ask me, I'll tell you *smile*)

Lit Gods, whoever you are, please respond. I do not want cheating either, but something is fishy.

What I would suggest you might want to try, Esperanza, is a semi-commercial erotic site. Like, one that has a real editorial process and might even pay you (well, like $5 or something, but still) for your stories. I know people around here have been published at Clean Sheets (PG had a poem there some time ago, and several Lit poets have published there; NormalJean even had a story published there some time back). Others have published poems or stories at Oysters and Chocolate.

Now, I haven't checked out either of these sites lately, but they might be a place to start looking.

And keep your spirits up. That getting beaten about the head thing happens to all writers. You just need to get used to feeling numb and woozy while typing.

 

[Tzara]

I love Espey's passion and I feel for her, but I think she (and most of the people who have replied) have missed the point. Tzara talks about occasional "scrubbing" of votes--I understand that, but can he or anyone explain my original example: a poem that has had only three votes over a short period--a 1, a 4 (deleted) then another 4 (also deleted but two days later). How does this tally with "periodic scrubbing"?

I have raised this issue with one of the mods and I await an answer, but I have to agree with Espey that something stinks here.

I can't explain the details about why some particular vote was wiped and another left standing. Nor about when it happens. I assume there is some kind of batch process that is run every so often that removes votes based on some algorithm that was designed to try and get rid of bogus votes, either high or low. Apparently in your case, it thought the higher vote was bogus and the lower vote was true, based on whatever criteria it uses to determine "true" from "bogus."

The forum mods won't know any more about this than I do--it isn't their site, they have very limited powers here, etc., etc. You could try asking Laurel or Manu, whose site Lit is, but I doubt they would explain it to you. If how the algorithm worked was public information, then the assholes would know how to get around it, right?

What I find puzzling about your response is trying to guess what you think is actually going on. Do you think the site owners have something against you personally?

I've had poems go from a few votes (poems, as a rule, never get very many votes) down to none. Sometimes, as the number of votes decreases, the score gets better. Sometimes it gets worse. Extreme scores (i.e., 1s and 5s) make more difference to the average than do moderate scores. That's simple math.

You need (my opinion, of course) to get over worrying about your scores. They aren't important. The sample size is so small as to be useless; it isn't a random sample, even of Lit poetry readers, anyway. It basically doesn't mean anything.

What matters is what people whose opinion you respect think of your writing. Honestly think of your writing.

And that is a very, very hard thing to get.

 

[fridayam]

"What matters is what people whose opinion you respect think of your writing. Honestly think of your writing.

And that is a very, very hard thing to get."

I totally agree, Tzara, which is why those people who took the trouble to leave a comment AND vote deserve to have their votes counted and not arbitrarily deleted--wouldn't you agree?

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

To me. Obviously it is to you, and I don't want to be demeaning about that.
I won't say all writers have fragile egos--that's probably too simplistic a statement to not easily be proven false--but most of them/us do. Even famous ones. So you're not alone there.

Part of the problem I have with your statement, though, just on the face of it is that it seems to imply that if a story has "almost all fives" someone voting a one is somehow slamming you unfairly. It could be that they just really didn't like the story and, if so, should that vote not be counted because it clobbers your score?

My suggestion (and it is, of course, only a suggestion and may not work for you) is that you try and get past worrying about your votes. The voting, at best, might give you some idea of how a sample of people who care enough, for whatever reason, to vote on your story might think about it. It might give you a little comparative sense among several stories, for example--that people seem to like "Story X" better than "Story Y." To my mind, that is all it does.

Is it hurtful when some anonymous nitwit pees on your story or poem with a 1 vote? Yeah, of course it does. It's much worse when an editor does, or especially when you get some generic rejection slip that just says something like "we cannot use your submission at this time, but thanks for considering XXX."

Tzarza, it is me. I have felt stupid my entire life. I will not go into all the reasons because I am certain they would bore all. I found something I have a level of competence, trust me, it surprised the hell out of me too a little over a year ago. I have an insidious need to be praised. It really sucks, and I am spilling my guts out all over the damn place. It is an awful need. Please, love me world, cause Mommy never did? It is ridiculous, because it does not mean anything anyway.

The problem is when ego is fed from adulation, so, obviously an issue for me. I thought the skin had thickened, but a past of missteps comes back and bites you on the ass like a vulture on your shoulder. This thread bit, and you saw the emotional reaction. Perhaps it is part of the journey. Growth is hard. I grow, but slowly.

Writing is about being banged in the head by all kinds of people, but believing in yourself and what you have to say enough to keep doing it.

So believe in yourself and keep doing it. Here or elsewhere.

I will try and remember what you tell me the next time I am doubting myself. You have my respect for both your courage to be honest, and your talent.
Thank you for caring and taking the time to bother with a young adult who is trying to find a muse--and some courage.

Shoot, look at me. I told myself I would never post again at Lit. Thank goodness I have no memory.

And, I have done the entire Alt thing too to hide the really pissed off I hate Mummy and homophobes poems, so I get it--maybe.

 

[Tzara]

"What matters is what people whose opinion you respect think of your writing. Honestly think of your writing.

And that is a very, very hard thing to get."

I totally agree, Tzara, which is why those people who took the trouble to leave a comment AND vote deserve to have their votes counted and not arbitrarily deleted--wouldn't you agree?

Of course, but then you have no solution to the problem of people boosting their own scores or slamming scores. If you don't have a system to delete votes (and, since I think votes are kind of useless, I don't think the site needs one), then the favorite lists are manipulated by "bad people."

I don't think it is a solvable problem, which is why I think votes don't matter.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

"What matters is what people whose opinion you respect think of your writing. Honestly think of your writing.

And that is a very, very hard thing to get."

I totally agree, Tzara, which is why those people who took the trouble to leave a comment AND vote deserve to have their votes counted and not arbitrarily deleted--wouldn't you agree?

Friday, ultimately a process where a human is picking and choosing will have bias. We humans tend to do so. But as far that point you make, agreed. It makes no sense at all. I like your stuff, so I vote and comment. Why are my legitimate votes removed? If they keep IP records of votes, they can see it is me. Are my votes not legitimate just because I like a poet's minimal style, and I tend to vote for the poet? Are all treated this way? Anything done behind a veil of secrecy will be questioned. I still ask the Lit Gods to explain it. As long as they keep it a state secret, they will be questioned. Thank goodness they give us the forum to question (Many good things about Lit also--moderation is limited).

 

[fridayam]

I think whether votes "matter" or "don't matter" is a very subjective thing--Espey evidently didn't like that her votes were trashed and I am sure that there are more folks out there who feel the same but aren't as mouthy as us. Whatever our subjective feelings are about votes, it is manifestly wrong to have votes scrubbed with no proper explanation. If it were true that the reason is to get rid of alt-votes and the like, why are we still plagued with the Scouries of this world?

 

[Angeline]

I love Espey's passion and I feel for her, but I think she (and most of the people who have replied) have missed the point. Tzara talks about occasional "scrubbing" of votes--I understand that, but can he or anyone explain my original example: a poem that has had only three votes over a short period--a 1, a 4 (deleted) then another 4 (also deleted but two days later). How does this tally with "periodic scrubbing"?

I have raised this issue with one of the mods and I await an answer, but I have to agree with Espey that something stinks here.

My dear man your concerns have been raised many (and I do mean many) times since I've been posting here, and with the full range of attitude from apathy to concern to outrage. It has never made a jot of difference to the owners of this site, who have chosen to run the system (or benignly neglect it) as they see fit. Laurel and Manu are both very nice people, but poetry is not what draws people to this site (excepting the occasional odd ducks like us here on the forum). In their view I am sure they see no compelling reason to put time and effort into changing the system. What they will recommend is that if you don't like the votes, you have the option of turning them off.

And in truth would you rather have a bunch or votes or comments that explain why your poems are thought effective or not? The only advantage to votes over comments I've ever seen is you might win a prize once a year during the Readers Awards. And that will only be a lower-level type prize (usually a small gift cert at amazon) rather than cash because the big prizes always go to stories, not poems. I like getting gift certs (and I've been lucky to get a few over the years), but they still have meant far less to me than the comments.

 

[Tzara]

Tzarza, it is me. I have felt stupid my entire life. I will not go into all the reasons because I am certain they would bore all. I found something I have a level of competence, trust me, it surprised the hell out of me too a little over a year ago. I have an insidious need to be praised. It really sucks, and I am spilling my guts out all over the damn place. It is an awful need. Please, love me world, cause Mommy never did? It is ridiculous, because it does not mean anything anyway.

No, it isn't ridiculous. We all want praise. All writers want praise. (Oop, some probably want to simply piss people off, I suppose. I should never say "all writers" anything.)

Anyway. That you want your scores to be high is a common thing. Everybody feels that when they first come here. What I am trying to convince you of is that that isn't really important. Easy for me to say, yeah. But if you are really serious about your writing, it is an essential thing to learn. Praise doesn't make your a better writer. Criticism--thoughtful, intelligent criticism--makes you a better writer. And that is damn hard to come by.

The problem is when ego is fed from adulation, so, obviously an issue for me. I thought the skin had thickened, but a past of missteps comes back and bites you on the ass like a vulture on your shoulder. This thread bit, and you saw the emotional reaction. Perhaps it is part of the journey. Growth is hard. I grow, but slowly.

We all, being human, being social, want to be liked and loved and appreciated. So, yes, here we want people to like our stories or poems, ourselves, and tell us we're really good writers/friends/people/whatever.

And there is nothing wrong in seeking that, if what you want is that social praise. We all need that.

I think what I'm trying to say to you and fridayam is that if you want to be a better writer, just seeking praise won't get you there. At least I don't think it will, though I'm not all that good a writer myself, so there's really no need to pay attention to me other than I'm kind of opinionated. Which is no reason whatsoever.

I will try and remember what you tell me the next time I am doubting myself. You have my respect for both your courage to be honest, and your talent.
Thank you for caring and taking the time to bother with a young adult who is trying to find a muse--and some courage.

The courage thing is hard to come by. When I was in college, aeons ago, I had a play published in my college literary magazine. One of the English professors reviewed the magazine and singled me out as being particularly worthless and a waste of perfectly good tree fibers. I didn't try to publish anything for 30 years after that.

Which was silly. He may have been right about that piece, but you can't let other people control your aspirations. You want to write, think you can write, then you write, goddam it, whatever anybody tells you.

It's hard to do, and we all need encouragement. Just don't get hooked on the need for praise. It's great, but doesn't in and of itself make you better.



Geez, I sound like someone's Dad. That sucks.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

My dear man your concerns have been raised many (and I do mean many) times since I've been posting here, and with the full range of attitude from apathy to concern to outrage. It has never made a jot of difference to the owners of this site, who have chosen to run the system (or benignly neglect it) as they see fit. Laurel and Manu are both very nice people, but poetry is not what draws people to this site (excepting the occasional odd ducks like us here on the forum). In their view I am sure they see no compelling reason to put time and effort into changing the system. What they will recommend is that if you don't like the votes, you have the option of turning them off.

And in truth would you rather have a bunch or votes or comments that explain why your poems are thought effective or not? The only advantage to votes over comments I've ever seen is you might win a prize once a year during the Readers Awards. And that will only be a lower-level type prize (usually a small gift cert at amazon) rather than cash because the big prizes always go to stories, not poems. I like getting gift certs (and I've been lucky to get a few over the years), but they still have meant far less to me than the comments.

Angeline,

Your avi is frickin SEXY!

Now, what were you writing about? Truth be told, the best info I have received is from comments, or people who take time and email flaws in plot or logic in a story. With that, you have a point. Nonetheless, the problem exists with poems and stories. But as long as there is a bevy of willing writers, why should Lit change? They do have a money maker. Motivation to disrupt a pot of gold makes no sense to them. But, it made no sense for Ford to change the Model T, until it was almost too late. And we may discuss the swiss watchmakers too, who were overrun by a small thing called a battery. Many examples exist of organizations that don't change. Sometimes a little competitor builds a better product, and others begin too flock. I think it is wise for Lit to listen, least their cow loses its cash. Most things that are not flowing and dynamic cease to exist, like communism, for example.

Look at Lit in its entirety. It is so difficult to post a story here. View OpenSalon, or even some of the more well known blogging venues. The process is easier, no need for all the HTML stuff. Lit is antiquated in my opinion--a prime example of a model T. Even reading a story is not reader friendly.

Ultimately, it is no use to complain, because all still flock in droves to Lit--at least for now.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Tzara

 

[Angeline]

Angeline,

Your avi is frickin SEXY!

Now, what were you writing about? Truth be told, the best info I have received is from comments, or people who take time and email flaws in plot or logic in a story. With that, you have a point. Nonetheless, the problem exists with poems and stories. But as long as there is a bevy of willing writers, why should Lit change? They do have a money maker. Motivation to disrupt a pot of gold makes no sense to them. But, it made no sense for Ford to change the Model T, until it was almost too late. And we may discuss the swiss watchmakers too, who were overrun by a small thing called a battery. Many examples exist of organizations that don't change. Sometimes a little competitor builds a better product, and others begin too flock. I think it is wise for Lit to listen, least their cow loses its cash. Most things that are not flowing and dynamic cease to exist, like communism, for example.

Look at Lit in its entirety. It is so difficult to post a story here. View OpenSalon, or even some of the more well known blogging venues. The process is easier, no need for all the HTML stuff. Lit is antiquated in my opinion--a prime example of a model T. Even reading a story is not reader friendly.

Ultimately, it is no use to complain, because all still flock in droves to Lit--at least for now.

Thanks for diggin the av. I'd love to take credit for it, but it's actually of Monday Michiru, the singer/musician in the clip in my sig line. Check her out, she's amazing (and tres sexy).

I totally get what you (and Friday) are saying, but I give the historical perspective to point out that if you put time into trying to change the system here, at the end of the day you will have a lot of wasted effort and frustration as opposed to um poems you could have written instead. And there are very few subjects that are disallowed at Lit so you have a lot of freedom to write what you want. And most important, you have a cyberspace where you can interact with other poets (like Tzara, Pandora, Champagne, me, you, Friday and on and on). What other reason is there to come here but for that interaction which provides ideas and inspiration and support?

It's really best for a poet here to see lit not as a place to publish but as a big workshop and meetingplace. If those are one's expectations, lit won't let you down. Practice and play and hone your poetry here, submit it if you wish but save your best efforts for submission to places that are about poetry, and not porn with poetry as an unexpected but welcome serendipitous side street. Sorry for the alliteration, but try saying that three times fast...after a drinkie or two.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

Oh gawd, you really know how to tempt a queer! The music is great.

Now, what were you sayin again? OMG, you were not kidding when you said sexy.

Look Here

Now THAT is worth getting my undies in an righteous state of ruinous rapture ready for a ripened ripening on a ribald retreat! Why don't I spend more time here you dudes are too fun.

And you frickin make me think too. Damnit it. I do not like thinking too much, people may think i am smartical.

Never mind---not likely to happen soon.

 

[Tzara]

Whatever our subjective feelings are about votes, it is manifestly wrong to have votes scrubbed with no proper explanation.

Why?

I don't mean to be obnoxious about this, but why is it "manifestly wrong?" Surely the people who own the site, who give you and me and many other people the chance to post things for public exposure and comment, surely they can set whatever effing rules they want to set? I mean, you could start a blog for your poems, if you wanted. That wouldn't have the numbers of viewers Lit does, but it would give you complete control over things. Or you could find some other site to post at that might have rules and procedures you're happier with.

This isn't your site; it's their site. Shouldn't they be allowed to run it however they see fit?

If it were true that the reason is to get rid of alt-votes and the like, why are we still plagued with the Scouries of this world?

Because, I think, they are trying, basically, to support free speech. Why I would personally ditch the vote sweeps and let the one-bombers and five bombers have their happy way with things, but it isn't my site.