vanilla ice cream/ grammar... grammar/vanilla ice cream

[MysteryWriter]

This is a pure style question. Why I am asking I have no idea unless it is to cause a fight. But then everyone knows I am a peace-loving guy so it can’t be that. Okay the question. Why is it that if I use correct grammar the stories read like vanilla ice cream? I write in dialect and lots of dialogue. When I went back with a word-perfect grammar program, the damn stuff looked like a high school project. I suppose I will either wind up back with my audio editor or writing term papers for my friend’s kids. Anybody else find the grammar programs boring as hell?

 

[MariusMCW]

Using proper grammar is only the foundation of a well-written story. Go back and look at some of your favorite books by your favorite authors, and note their writing styles-- you don't have to deviate from the usage of proper grammar in order to really bring a story alive and give it a style all its own.

-M.

 

[KillerMuffin]

NEVER use a grammar checker to check your content!!! You're a creative writer, not a term paper writer! I have extremely good grammar but WP8 thinks I'm lousy and need some remedial lessons. The only purpose for a grammar checker is to check your spelling. I never touch the spell checker.

Good grammar and good style can go hand in hand. The thing you must listen for in style is "voice." Now when you speak in dialect or vernacular, the best way to keep it comprehensible to people who don't speak that dialect or vernacular is to use grammar.

I've read your stuff. Your grammar isn't too shabby so don't mess with what works. If you intend to write to actually sell the darned things, then check into a creative writing course that will teach you how to successfully meld your voice with the grammatical elements that publishers look for. However, the problems with your grammar are the least of the problems you may have with your writings. A closer look at plot advancement and pacing would serve you much better.

Your plots are a little too obvious and you write the story a little too quickly. The last one I read, can't remember the title but it's about the empathic guy, was about one-quarter the number of words that I felt would have done it justice.

You've got some grammar troubles like comma splices and run on sentences but I think that all of your grammar problems could be solved simply through the use of proper punctuation and a good solid knowing of how to recognize when your sentence is over. You do a good job now, in fact I didn't notice anything major the first read through, so don't worry about it.

 

[Weird Harold]

Why is it that if I use correct grammar the stories read like vanilla ice cream? I write in dialect and lots of dialogue. When I went back with a word-perfect grammar program, the damn stuff looked like a high school project.

You write in "dialect and dialogue," WordPerfect (or MS Word) don't. It's really that simple.

The rules of grammar don't really apply as rigorously to dialogue as they do to narration. If the narration is in dialect, the "standard" rules probably don't apply at all.

Dialects do have a consistent "grammar" of their own. "They's" for "They are" should always be used if that's the speech pattern initially established.

As KillerMuffin said, you need to strike a balance between readability and realistic dialogue and dialect. As long as you stay consistent and maintain the rythm of the dialect you should be OK.

 

[MysteryWriter]

I had a point but I forgot what it was

Somewhere along the way my point got lost. The point was, I thought, that grammar checkers want to make us all write alike. Since I write very different from my favorite books, I don't think their lessons will work for me.

I didn't think I had a huge problem with grammar before. I actually have more fragments than run ons these days. Fragments are really how people talk. Listen carefully to a conversation going on around you. The number of understood words in a conversation is staggering. At least it is where I am from. All the grammer checks want you to fill them in. When you do, you lose the essense of the conversation I think.

Spell check I do have to use. When I don't my writing looks awful and readers point it out to me quickly. Even on the stuff I wrote years ago I re-edit using the audio editor. It catches most of my glaring mistakes. Those are the only ones I cared about until I was told by a "fan" that I needed to do a grammar check.

I did the check and man I can't stand how it makes my stories look. The point I guess I was trying to make is that grammar checkers are boring. Spell checkers are cool lol.

 

[its Leslie]

I never resent being "polished" looking

I always use my Word XP based grammar and spell checking function actually.

Style has nothing to do with making sure your sentence structure is well advised. And typos never make anything look professional.

I have only one aspect of grammar checkers I don't care for, and thats having to teach them the difference between Canadian and American usage. But I never resent having to tell the spell checker or grammar checker to "ignore" something creative (also means I rarely need editing).

When I consider all the errors that would have been missed if I had not used one (and then ended up looking way to amatuerish for my liking). Style is easy when its all you have to worry about (not all the minor technical aspects).

I have mine running all the time. It tells me when something doesn't look right. This doesn't mean I have to change it. But it's nice knowing I was warned about something that might look clumsy.

It's like a lot of things. Spell checkers are like censors I guess. Me personally, I dont care for sloppy, so I don't mind someone keeping me on my toes.

 

[MysteryWriter]

oh i beg to differ

sentace structure has a lot to do with style. If you write dialogue with a grammar check you get very nice sounding dialogue but not the way people really talk. I am sorry but it is true. Listen to people around you talk. If the people you know talk in complete sentances that satisfy a grammar check then you have some very educated friends. actually some people who are really strange.

 

[its Leslie]

hehehe Actually I do tend to talk like a grammar checker I suppose. it explains why friends kid me about it.

The phrase "blah blah blah insert big word here, blah blah blah" is popular with my close friends.

But I agree not everyone talks in a rediculously accurate fashion. Then again most people don't read dictionaries, atlases, and text books on the toilet like me either I suppose.

I just don't know any other way in my case. Half the time the grammar checker doesn't find anything to check (which I don't mind of course).

 

[MysteryWriter]

I see

I was warned about people like you. rofl... you must be part of the critics who I can never please as long as I live. I write in the tradition of Mikey Spillane and other action writers. The critics hate us all because we write to the base emotions and don't really follow the rules of polite society. Course you might think that is an excuse and hell it might be lol. thanks for the imput.

 

[KillerMuffin]

MW, I like your language. I have no issue with sentence fragments in your stuff because you use them judiciously (on purpose or not, I don't know) and correctly. Fragments are valuable tools and you tend to write in first person so they're necessary. People don't think in complete sentences.

 

[MysteryWriter]

thank you k.m.

Thank you k.m. the remarks weren't meant for anyone in particular. I guess I was mad a myself when I started this thread. I try to respond to criticism in the most positive manner once I cool off.
Usually even the jerks have a point hidden in there somewhere. So when I was told to get a grammar checker and use it, I did. I found the punctuation check was actually good for me. I made all the corrections in a story that the wp8 called for. Then I went back and re read it. It wasn't mine anymore. It was a story anyone could have written. I sat around cursing myself as a lousy writer to have been writing so wrong all this time. Then I read the revised story again and decided the story I wrote was not there. Half the fun of the story I had written was in the characters and the way they spoke. When I removed that and had them speaking like everybody else writes a lot of the interest had gone from the story. So I was cursing myself for letting someone else convince me that I should change my voice. sytle whatever to suit the mainstream readers critics writers whatever.. my point was and even I got lost in the discussion was simply grammar checkers are fine if you write that way. I just don't write like that. If some other writer is out there and gets the grammar thing from some fan remember do what you want but the story is yours not wp8 or word or anyone else to tamper with.
I have now blown off all the steam I have. By the way Killer I apologize fro what I thought about your least of your problems remarks roflmffoa

 

[its Leslie]

I of course don't want to stifle individuality.

A truely individualistic person is someone that does it their way.

I have to say the spell checker can in a lot of cases impart a dull sameness to the sentence.

First rule of writing I was told was don't write for your 8th grade teacher.

I have found a lot of topic matter on the site is really neat. My latest attempt was to fictionalise a silly story involving the people I chat with here in the stories and authors chat room. More of a personal joke I guess than anything else.

I hope my comments so af have been at least received as friendly.

 

[MysteryWriter]

absolutely

yes it was taken as helpful and given in good humor as was mine. Same here was meant for those of us who get email telling us to learn our grammar before we write..
you know it actually helps me when we have these discussions. It gives me a clearer picture of what I am trying to do with the writing.