Using Subtle Signals

[statsultan]

I'm in the process of writing (and posting as I go) my first story, and I've tried to include a lot of dialog to help flesh out the characters. But so much of how we communicate to each other is non-verbal, and yet taking the time to properly signal everything we pick up from such cues in writing would make the story ponderous and ten times as long.

So what are other ways to more subtly show how our characters feel about things and/or each other?

I frequently use a word other than 'said' to try to show tone of language or other interpretations of meaning. So I use words like "called out", "said knowingly", "cried", "explained", "reminded", "blurted", etc.

But I've read some guides on writing to never use a word other than 'said' and to let the reader find the hidden meaning themselves.

I also try to use some really subtle signals, like how the main characters address each other. My female protagonist will use either 'Will', 'William', 'Sir', or 'Master' depending on her mood.

But then I wonder that maybe that's too subtle.

I don't know. Does anyone else even think of things like this? Or am I obsessing too much because its my first story?

 

[oggbashan]

The answer to your final question is Yes.

Dialogue should express mood without clues.

As it is your first story, post it and see what you and others think when it is available to read.

After writing a few dozen stories you might find that you need to re-write your first story. Don't. Leave it as a reminder of how far you have developed and keep writing more.

Og

 

[sr71plt]

quite often you don't need to use a dialogue slug at all. And I'd quibble with using "said" all of the time. That would get tedious with the reader. I often put some action with the dialogue. (e.g., "But be aware that I saw her first." He was standing at the window looking down at the traffic in the city street, but not seeing it--seeing only the flames of his suppressed anger.") Or something such--this one is a bit telling rather than showing, which is OK if you don't resort to it all of the time. Showing more would be ending with ". . . seeing only flames."

 

[TxRad]

Since you used the words Sir and Master in you OP, I assume this is a BDSM piece. Body language in such a story can be even more telling than dialog if used in the right places. Our BDSM readers here at Lit are smarter than most give them credit for. They follow subtlety very well.

And like Og said, this is a first try. Everything gets better with practice.

 

[Liar]

I frequently use a word other than 'said' to try to show tone of language or other interpretations of meaning. So I use words like "called out", "said knowingly", "cried", "explained", "reminded", "blurted", etc.

But I've read some guides on writing to never use a word other than 'said' and to let the reader find the hidden meaning themselves.

I'd say nothing forbidden. Those words exist, it would be a shame not to use them.

But you can wear them out. Read your lines. If the words themselves, in the conversation they're in, makes it obvoius that something said is an explanation, adding "...Bob explained." is just telling the reader he is dumb and can't figure that out. It's like pointing at a ball and saying "Look, that is a ball!"

I also try to use some really subtle signals, like how the main characters address each other. My female protagonist will use either 'Will', 'William', 'Sir', or 'Master' depending on her mood.

But then I wonder that maybe that's too subtle.

I don't find that subtle at all. Maybe it is, in the context of the story, but the way you describe it here, it has a big, neon sign above it.

 

[statsultan]

As it is your first story, post it and see what you and others think when it is available to read.

I've been posting chapters as I complete them, under the assumption that I'll get good constructive feedback. But 99% of all feedback is a generic "great job" which is nice for the old ego, but not much more helpful to anything else. I've gotten a lot more feedback from posting the story at another site despite it having half the readership of Lit. Still, the only constructive criticism I've gotten from either site points out the odd mistaken homonym. Those are good catches, but it looks like I'm going to have to become more active in getting specific help, thus this thread.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SS

Most people here want exactly what youre getting. GREAT JOB, YOURE THE BEST, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Most people come unglued with real feedback, so few waste their time offering it.

I think the Affirmative Action Trophies are about as cowardly as it comes.

 

[TxRad]

I've been posting chapters as I complete them, under the assumption that I'll get good constructive feedback. But 99% of all feedback is a generic "great job" which is nice for the old ego, but not much more helpful to anything else. I've gotten a lot more feedback from posting the story at another site despite it having half the readership of Lit. Still, the only constructive criticism I've gotten from either site points out the odd mistaken homonym. Those are good catches, but it looks like I'm going to have to become more active in getting specific help, thus this thread.

You might try a thread in the feedback forum. Some pretty sharp people, for the most part. Sometimes you get more than you bargained for though.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You really do have to ask for concrit.

And honestly, it's hard to give-- takes a lot of thought, a lot of finger action on the keys, and you always have to worry about hurting the author's feelings inadvertently because half the time what you notice as a flaw is some bit the author loves above all else...

 

[bronzeage]

There are rules which make text understandable. If there was never a variance to the rules, computers could write as well as any human.

Dialog slugs have a place. When overused, they bog down the reader. It is all a matter of the way the words flow and only a human ear can say if it is good or bad.

Just to keep it from being too easy, it is seldom that two people agree on what exactly is a good flow.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was thinking about your "subtle signals;"

I have gone away from trying to "show not tell" absolutely every little thing. I find there is a story-telling that is very satisfying to the reader wherein you can say "That big ass of hers was the most wonderful thing he could have imagined."
The readers can fill in via empathic response, and the writer can move along.

In his novel "Snow Crash," Neal Stephenson has one of his characters talk about how her grandmother took one look at her as she sat down to dinner, and knew she was pregnant. The character uses the phrase; "Distill information from the vapor of nuance" and that phrase is the solution to another character's problem.

It works for me too... you can trust your readers to distill information from the vapor of your word choices. None of the language you use is going to be especially foreign to them, and we all load cultural nuances onto our words-- most of us share such nuances in pretty close harmony.

 

[mynameisben]

Sometimes it's best not to use "said" or any other substitute either. Consider the following dialog:

"What's wrong, honey?"

"Oh, I don't know. Things have been so chaotic at work this week. I think I'm losing my mind."

"Maybe you need to take a day off or two next week."

"I think I will. How does a three-day weekend in Hawaii sound to you?"

"Oh! I'm so excited!"


From context it's pretty clear who's saying what. The reader is involved in the dialog far better than they would be if every sentence ended with the word, "said."

Now, imagine how phony the dialog becomes when you add "said" stand-ins:


"What's wrong, honey?" he queried.

"Oh, I don't know. Things have been so chaotic at work this week. I think I'm losing my mind," she sighed.

"Maybe you need to take a day off or two next week," he offered.

"I think I will. How does a three-day weekend in Hawaii sound to you?" she chirped.

"Oh! I'm so excited!" he ejaculated.


I'm not saying NEVER use "said" stand-ins. I'm just saying you should always consider mixing things up a little. Otherwise, your patterns of style degenerate into a guessing game that distracts your readers from the story you're trying to tell.

 

[Weird Harold]

Sometimes it's best not to use "said" or any other substitute either. Consider the following dialog:

"What's wrong, honey?"

"Oh, I don't know. Things have been so chaotic at work this week. I think I'm losing my mind."

"Maybe you need to take a day off or two next week."

"I think I will. How does a three-day weekend in Hawaii sound to you?"

"Oh! I'm so excited!"


From context it's pretty clear who's saying what. The reader is involved in the dialog far better than they would be if every sentence ended with the word, "said."

Now, imagine how phony the dialog becomes when you add "said" stand-ins:


"What's wrong, honey?" he queried.

"Oh, I don't know. Things have been so chaotic at work this week. I think I'm losing my mind," she sighed.

"Maybe you need to take a day off or two next week," he offered.

"I think I will. How does a three-day weekend in Hawaii sound to you?" she chirped.

"Oh! I'm so excited!" he ejaculated.


I'm not saying NEVER use "said" stand-ins. I'm just saying you should always consider mixing things up a little. Otherwise, your patterns of style degenerate into a guessing game that distracts your readers from the story you're trying to tell.

A very early editor/mentor of mine characterized something very similar to your latter example as "Insulting the Readers' Intelligence."

I have somewhat overcompensated for that criticism and argued with later editors who think I don't use enough dialogue tags; To the point that I wrote a story that was all dialogue with NO dialogue tags -- the sort of story you'd get from transcribing a wiretapped conversation without identifying the speakers -- just to prove that it could be done. It isn't a great story, averaging an absolutly average score on the site where I posted it. (It wasn't particularly erotic.)

For me, Dialogue works best when it flows with a minimum of interuptions for tags or parenthetical narration/exposition.

 

[jomar]

Lot's of people write good dialog, but you can't go wrong studying Robert Parker or Elmore Leonard or authors that appeal to you.

Personally, I mostly stick to "said" and let the words themselves or the actions of the characters convey the emotions and subtleties (bounced on her toes, hands clasped under her chin; he said and tuned his back on her; she said, her words barely audible...).

You can trust my advice with nary a whiff of doubt because I have a few Hs for stories I've posted on a porn site proving I know what I'm talking about.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Lately I have been avoiding tags unless there are multiple people speaking.

"How are you doing?" asked Beth.

"Oh, I'm fine," said Steve.

"What about you, Beth?" asked Julie. "I heard you were having a hard time with things."

"I heard the same thing," said Carol. "I heard you completely freaked out."

"I did. I flipped my lid and killed every rat in the house with a fork."

"A fork?" asked Steve, disgusted at the thought. "That's barbaric."

"You always were a bit squeamish, you big prude," commented Julie.

Tags have their place. And you will also notice the direct response by Beth isn't tagged. So I guess non-tags have their place too

 

[jehoram]

I frequently use a word other than 'said' to try to show tone of language or other interpretations of meaning. So I use words like "called out", "said knowingly", "cried", "explained", "reminded", "blurted", etc.

Use these words as a good chef uses spices. First, it has to be the exactly right word. Second, Don't use too many of them.

A few of them, used sparingly and accurately, enhance a work, but overdoing them detracts from it.

Take the word "explained."

"The bomb didn't explode because you forgot to arm it," he said.

"The bomb didn't explode because you forgot to arm it," he explained.

The second example gives you not only the words, but connotes the tone of voice used, particularly the feeling that the speaker was patiently trying to instruct the other person. It also implies that the other person was genuinely perplexed about why the bomb didn't go off, and needed the explanation.

Write it both ways, and let your ear be the guide.

 

[statsultan]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful postings, everyone! he said with great enthusiasm!

I'll keep working on it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Lately I have been avoiding tags unless there are multiple people speaking.

"How are you doing?" asked Beth.

"Oh, I'm fine," said Steve.

"What about you, Beth?" asked Julie. "I heard you were having a hard time with things."

"I heard the same thing," said Carol. "I heard you completely freaked out."

"I did. I flipped my lid and killed every rat in the house with a fork."

"A fork?" asked Steve, disgusted at the thought. "That's barbaric."

"You always were a bit squeamish, you big prude," commented Julie.

Tags have their place. And you will also notice the direct response by Beth isn't tagged. So I guess non-tags have their place too

What happened then?

(really-- that's a very funny and evocative bit of dialogue!)

 

[TheeGoatPig]

What happened then?

(really-- that's a very funny and evocative bit of dialogue!)

I don't know. It was off the top of my head...

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Although after rereading that short passage I wish I could get back into that moment and flesh it out a little bit more...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Although after rereading that short passage I wish I could get back into that moment and flesh it out a little bit more...

Why were there so many rats in her house? Why would she use such a bloodthirsty method to kill them?
Maybe she's newly become some kind of werecreature, that would make someone flip their lid for a while...

Steve might be the only human in the bunch.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Although after rereading that short passage I wish I could get back into that moment and flesh it out a little bit more...

Dear Reader,
TGP sells used condoms at eBay. He hand washes each one.

 

[squarejohn]

I'm in the process of writing (and posting as I go) my first story, and I've tried to include a lot of dialog to help flesh out the characters. But so much of how we communicate to each other is non-verbal, and yet taking the time to properly signal everything we pick up from such cues in writing would make the story ponderous and ten times as long.

So what are other ways to more subtly show how our characters feel about things and/or each other?

I frequently use a word other than 'said' to try to show tone of language or other interpretations of meaning. So I use words like "called out", "said knowingly", "cried", "explained", "reminded", "blurted", etc.

But I've read some guides on writing to never use a word other than 'said' and to let the reader find the hidden meaning themselves.

I also try to use some really subtle signals, like how the main characters address each other. My female protagonist will use either 'Will', 'William', 'Sir', or 'Master' depending on her mood.

But then I wonder that maybe that's too subtle.

I don't know. Does anyone else even think of things like this? Or am I obsessing too much because its my first story?

You are not the only one who thinks about these things. I agonize over them.

There is an old argument about using the word "said" with a modifier. My view is that dialogue is used to define more sharply the differences or similarities of the characters. Jesus! What a can of worm you've opened. One way to solve this is to plunge ahead and write the story while you're running hot. In the heat of the moment, it all looks good. Read what you've written later on and you'll see how much you can modify--or scratch out completely.

Instead of "said knowingly," try, "...'said.' There was a knowing tone in his voice."
Or a tone of approval; or, It sounded like a rebuke; or, He had a voice like gravel. On and on like that. Just putting a period after "said" is often good enough.

Good fiction is filled with drama down the nth degree. Keep the characters different in every way, including their motivations. Mostly, just keep writing and your own style will begin to emerge to the point where you'll be quite comfortable sculpting characters and plot.

 

[squarejohn]

Lately I have been avoiding tags unless there are multiple people speaking.

"How are you doing?" asked Beth.

"Oh, I'm fine," said Steve.

"What about you, Beth?" asked Julie. "I heard you were having a hard time with things."

"I heard the same thing," said Carol. "I heard you completely freaked out."

"I did. I flipped my lid and killed every rat in the house with a fork."

"A fork?" asked Steve, disgusted at the thought. "That's barbaric."

"You always were a bit squeamish, you big prude," commented Julie.

Tags have their place. And you will also notice the direct response by Beth isn't tagged. So I guess non-tags have their place too

Your example is a pretty good piece of writing by itself.

 

[Guest]

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