Unpleasant characters

[Serafina1210]

I have a great weakness for unpleasant characters. Maybe that says something about me, if, as some say, we write versions of ourselves in our stories. Whatever--I just like to write difficult characters with troubled pasts.

The first story I ever published here featured a prostitute who was severely abused as a child (the abuse never explicitly described, of course) and discovers a need to engage in extreme practices. My current heroine is an emotional masochist who does bad things both to herself and others. (These stories, btw, don’t do as well with either scores or views as my stories with nice protagonists. But you write what you’ve got to write: I'm not complaining.)

I’m curious how many writers here find themselves drawn to difficult heroes and heroines. If you do, what kind do you like best? Do you try to make your readers like your difficult characters? Do you make them likable by the end of the story? Can you share links to stories you’ve written (or liked) with unpleasant protagonists?

 

[lovecraft68]

Read My Siblings with Benefits series.

Both characters were abused and broken, but the sister especially was a character that was loathed by many of the readers throughout the series for her addiction driven behavior.

She was difficult to write in the sense I had to put myself into a dark place to "pull her off" but in the end when I flashed back to her last days of addiction I succeeded in getting people who had hated her for 37 chapters to pity and understand her.

I've written several other characters like that as well, but not for lit

 

[madam_noe]

One of my favorite characters to write about is Alex (who first appears in The Forever Ghosts) where we see she is repeatedly tortured and raped.

It got lower scores than usual for me, and I have to admit it's made me think.

I am writing a novel in that universe with those characters but I may retcon her past to not include rape, merely being a blood slave.

Off site, it seems most writers can only get away with that well into a series. Take Patricia Brigg's werecoyote series where it's a later book the heroine gets raped in. Or Sherrilyn Kenyon's DarkHunter series where it takes several books to get into real horror in a childhood, such as Acheron's history of rape (a real tearjerker).

It does make me wonder, do we need a deep emotional investment into a universe before we can deal with things like rape or childhood sexual abuse? I wonder what exactly that says about us.

 

[Serafina1210]

One of my favorite characters to write about is Alex (who first appears in The Forever Ghosts) where we see she is repeatedly tortured and raped.

It got lower scores than usual for me, and I have to admit it's made me think.

I am writing a novel in that universe with those characters but I may retcon her past to not include rape, merely being a blood slave.

Off site, it seems most writers can only get away with that well into a series. Take Patricia Brigg's werecoyote series where it's a later book the heroine gets raped in. Or Sherrilyn Kenyon's DarkHunter series where it takes several books to get into real horror in a childhood, such as Acheron's history of rape (a real tearjerker).

It does make me wonder, do we need a deep emotional investment into a universe before we can deal with things like rape or childhood sexual abuse? I wonder what exactly that says about us.

Thanks very much, madam_noe: I'll definitely have a look. I'm likely to like your character better than many of your readers did.

BTW, googling "unpleasant protagonists" and "unlikable protagonists" turns up a good many interesting-looking essays, blog posts, etc. It'll take a while to go through the top hits there.

 

[Serafina1210]

Read My Siblings with Benefits series.

Both characters were abused and broken, but the sister especially was a character that was loathed by many of the readers throughout the series for her addiction driven behavior.

She was difficult to write in the sense I had to put myself into a dark place to "pull her off" but in the end when I flashed back to her last days of addiction I succeeded in getting people who had hated her for 37 chapters to pity and understand her.

I've written several other characters like that as well, but not for lit

Thanks for the pm, LC. I'll just say for the benefit of the thread that I'll definitely be having a look at SWB.

 

[squirrelzo]

It really depends on how you write them. A nasty person can be engaging and sympathetic. Or not...

Personally, to me it doesn't matter if they are objectively unpleasant as long as I can identify with them.

I'm beginning to see the characters that really turn me off are ones that whine, or are completely clueless. I like self-awareness, that's important.

So if she knows she's an emotional masochist and admits it, I'm there.

I have a great weakness for unpleasant characters. Maybe that says something about me, if, as some say, we write versions of ourselves in our stories. Whatever--I just like to write difficult characters with troubled pasts.

The first story I ever published here featured a prostitute who was severely abused as a child (the abuse never explicitly described, of course) and discovers a need to engage in extreme practices. My current heroine is an emotional masochist who does bad things both to herself and others. (These stories, btw, don’t do as well with either scores or views as my stories with nice protagonists. But you write what you’ve got to write: I'm not complaining.)

I’m curious how many writers here find themselves drawn to difficult heroes and heroines. If you do, what kind do you like best? Do you try to make your readers like your difficult characters? Do you make them likable by the end of the story? Can you share links to stories you’ve written (or liked) with unpleasant protagonists?

 

[eufafiy]

A smiling boy arrived home from a dental visit,"Hey mom,the dentist says I have no cavities. "His mom stared at him wide-eyed and quite surprised,"It's impossible --you never brush your teeth after cleaning the chocolate box before you go to bed! Then the boy opened his mouth --he had not a tooth left!

 

[RoyceConnors]

There's good and bad in everyone, so I like to bring that out. It can range from mildly unpleasant characters, to ones you wish dead. No one is perfect, so readers like to see a little of themselves in someone and tend to identify more with them. I have loveable characters with terrible manners or habits, like pulling their false teeth out to take some food off of them and put them back in while talking. I like to create a colourful character with identifying traits and personality.

 

[Serafina1210]

Look! Two posts in a row featuring toothlessness! What are the odds on that?

Much to think about--but it's time for bed. More thoughts in the morning (I hope).

 

[sr71plt]

Unpleasant characters? Well, I haven't put Zeb in one of my stories . . . yet.

 

[RoyceConnors]

In this scene from R9, I have a good hearted and loving character succumbing to the advances of a mature woman bent on bedding him, even though he has just decided to marry his GF. So much good and bad comes out, yet both remain likable characters despite their flaws.

'...Jake's words about older women kept playing in his head, as he felt Marlene undressing him. He put aside any feelings for Suzy in his heart and mind, as raw lust and desire swept through him, helping her bare his body to her. Marlene slowly sank to her knees in front of him, undoing his pants and lowering them down his legs. He felt the cool air of the room wash over his manhood and then the warmth returned, by way of warm hands and an even warmer mouth. Despite the pleas of objection from his conscience not to do it, his fingers made their way into the rich, auburn tresses and held her to him.'

 

[49greg]

I've got a really unpleasant sadistic character in a couple of my stories, but she's not the main character in either one, just a side character who has control of one of the main characters. The plan for her story arc, if I ever continue it, is for her to get her comeuppance. She is not only evil but crazy.

I don't know where she came from, I started writing and ... the devil made me do it.

 

[StrangeLife]

I’m curious how many writers here find themselves drawn to difficult heroes and heroines. If you do, what kind do you like best? Do you try to make your readers like your difficult characters? Do you make them likable by the end of the story? Can you share links to stories you’ve written (or liked) with unpleasant protagonists?

I think it's because "ordinary" people are boring to write about. The quirky, strange, odd, edgy and weird characters are the ones are much more fun to play around with.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

For 20 plus years I evaluated 1000s of people, including one waxy catatonic schizophrenic; they don't move...at all. Dressed like the Marlboro Man I thought he was a mannequin. A cop brought in a fat hebephrenic schizophrenic one night, her fat legs were caked with shit, reminded me of the bottom of a lawn mower. Hebephrenics like to play with shit. But most people are sick pups if youre patient and wait. I use these people for characters.

 

[Serafina1210]

Interesting posts here.

How much do you have to explain about an unpleasant character? I'm an impatient writer--I've generally just dropped in hints of a troubled past, but wonder if it's enough.

If you write a character like Royce's "one you wish dead," do you have to kill her (or punish her in some way)? Is it possible to give her a Happy Ever After ending?

Way back in school, a couple centuries ago, there was this really nasty guy whom everyone hated--snooty, dissed everyone. And there was this girl who was just like him. They ended up getting married. I suppose they found common ground in their contempt for all the people around them.

 

[RoyceConnors]

Interesting posts here.

How much do you have to explain about an unpleasant character? I'm an impatient writer--I've generally just dropped in hints of a troubled past, but wonder if it's enough.

If you write a character like Royce's "one you wish dead," do you have to kill her (or punish her in some way)? Is it possible to give her a Happy Ever After ending?

Way back in school, a couple centuries ago, there was this really nasty guy whom everyone hated--snooty, dissed everyone. And there was this girl who was just like him. They ended up getting married. I suppose they found common ground in their contempt for all the people around them.

I think that's the beauty of writing, in that you have no set rules to how a story should go or how a character should end up at the end. You get to decide the outcome of events and twists are great to throw in to keep the reader from thinking they know what's coming net, or expect a certain person should have something happen to them.

In Blood of the Clans, I portrayed James MacRae as a character who needed to die in ch. 1. I let him run amok and do all his evil deeds for 50 chs. until I killed him off (in a manner most fitting.) The first chapter wasn't long, but it established what I needed to in that short amount of writing to put across MacRae's character.

That couple would make a good plot for a story about comeuppance by former classmates at a reunion of some kind.

 

[allamagione]

Ooh, a very interesting post and a timely one for me. I just finished a reread of Macbeth, which features two of my favorite, if not outright unpleasant, at least morally ambiguous characters. And don't get me started on my boundless and borderline unhealthy love for Heathcliff, which seems to really make feminist blood boil. ("But he's a wife-beater!" Yes, and Linton is the ideal husband, and a very boring character.)

I've always been drawn to anti-hero sorts, more than heroes. I think perhaps I don't internalize fiction the way other readers do? Because, for me, there's no "likable" and "unlikable" involved. It's more a matter of "interesting" and "uninteresting." I don’t necessarily have to understand or empathize with the unpleasant character, either. Joyce Carol Oates' novel Zombie is told from the POV of a serial killer, very sick and twisted stuff, but it's written with such integrity to his mental instability that morbid fascination kept me reading. And I enjoy anti-heroes regardless of whether they get their comeuppance. In fact, I love stories with ambiguous endings, where we're left wondering whether or not the character will get away with their misdeeds. But again, this doesn't seem to be popular with many readers. (*coughBTBcough*)

What I find particularly compelling (although very difficult to pull off as a writer) is when characters are portrayed in such a way that the reader is fully aware they're making all the wrong decisions while the character is ignorant or deceiving themselves or justifying their behavior. Or when the character knows they're making bad decisions, and perhaps they feel bad about it, but they just can't stop themselves. Whew, I get turned on just thinking about that. Of course, I realize I'm talking about actions more than character here. So maybe what I enjoy, even more than unpleasant characters, is reading about average, everyday people who do unpleasant things.

What's the famous saying? The dragon is the hero of his own story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My idea of really bad comes from what an old friend said of his service with the CIA in Laos back in 1969.

He and a team of air combat controllers were assigned to a CIA jungle camp, to handle communications and camp security. At the end communist guerillas attacked the camp, then the CIA people escaped from the camp via helicopters and left the security guys behind.

My old friend and his team fled for Vietnam, on foot, over 100 miles away. 8 men died from gunshots. No CIA losses.

I can imagine some CIA chief thinking FUCK EM.

 

[Serafina1210]

My idea of really bad comes from what an old friend said of his service with the CIA in Laos back in 1969.

He and a team of air combat controllers were assigned to a CIA jungle camp, to handle communications and camp security. At the end communist guerillas attacked the camp, then the CIA people escaped from the camp via helicopters and left the security guys behind.

My old friend and his team fled for Vietnam, on foot, over 100 miles away. 8 men died from gunshots. No CIA losses.

I can imagine some CIA chief thinking FUCK EM.

Betrayal. It doesn't get much worse in life or in fiction. Le Carre is the novelist I know who does betrayal best.

My girl Pipit gets a new roommate, befriends her, and then gets her fired from her job so she can take over her clients. That's when some of my readers started to say she had no redeeming qualities. Strangely, I'm pretty sure Pipit went on liking her roommate even as she was fucking her over.

 

[DeathAndTaxes]

What I find particularly compelling (although very difficult to pull off as a writer) is when characters are portrayed in such a way that the reader is fully aware they're making all the wrong decisions while the character is ignorant or deceiving themselves or justifying their behavior. Or when the character knows they're making bad decisions, and perhaps they feel bad about it, but they just can't stop themselves. Whew, I get turned on just thinking about that. Of course, I realize I'm talking about actions more than character here. So maybe what I enjoy, even more than unpleasant characters, is reading about average, everyday people who do unpleasant things.

I like this, too! I had this happen with the male lead in The Devil's Luck, though whether I did a good job of it is up to the reader. He's one of 2 main POV characters, and while he's completely taking a-hole actions, especially as the story progresses, you can see him not liking his choices, or trying to ignore the way his decisions make him feel bad. His character is one that comes across as a villain at first, but then you see he's just a flawed guy. The real villain in the story, the brief few times I put the reader in his head, shows no such remorse or questioning.

 

[Serafina1210]

Such good stuff here. It sounds like self-awareness is important in an unlikable character who's not simply a villain. Knowing you're on a destructive course but not being able to do anything about it is an ancient trope, and still a good one.

 

[TamLin01]

The first story I ever published here featured a prostitute who was severely abused as a child (the abuse never explicitly described, of course)

Well, I haven't read the story so I'm not certain, but judging just from this that doesn't sound like an unpleasant character. It's just unpleasant subject matter.

I don't really find that unpleasant people are unpleasant because of trouble in their past. Sometimes, certainly, but more often unpleasant people are unpleasant just because that's how they're wired: selfish people, greedy people, manipulative or thoughtless people usually aren't troubled rape victims looking for an outlet. Sometimes they're just assholes.

 

[SikFuk]

Assholes are just annoying. I can sympathize with damaged people: damaged by vanity, greed, low self esteem, poor social skills, fervent religious beliefs, PTSD, physical or mental handicaps, or even (must we go there?) childhood trauma. Will they find redemption? Sometimes, in a really good story, the sex is only a sideshow. I wish I wrote more of those.

 

[StrangeLife]

I don't really find that unpleasant people are unpleasant because of trouble in their past. Sometimes, certainly, but more often unpleasant people are unpleasant just because that's how they're wired: selfish people, greedy people, manipulative or thoughtless people usually aren't troubled rape victims looking for an outlet. Sometimes they're just assholes.

Well, a wise man once said that badguys aren't born - they're made. If this statement is true, your asshole-hypothesis cannot hold.

I tend to believe that every flawed or bad person is built upon a chain of pivotal events which shaped his or her personality in a negative direction. That's no excuse for being an ass though - we still have free will and thus responsibility for our actions - but it's an explanation. Maybe Osama bin Laden bumped his toe on a sky scraper as a kid? Maybe a Jew dissed one of Adolph Hitlers paintings? Maybe Putins parents forced him to always wear a shirt?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Well, I haven't read the story so I'm not certain, but judging just from this that doesn't sound like an unpleasant character. It's just unpleasant subject matter.

I don't really find that unpleasant people are unpleasant because of trouble in their past. Sometimes, certainly, but more often unpleasant people are unpleasant just because that's how they're wired: selfish people, greedy people, manipulative or thoughtless people usually aren't troubled rape victims looking for an outlet. Sometimes they're just assholes.

I agree. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly.