Understanding Submissives/Rebellious Submissives

[poppy1963]

I have been reading alot in the Library and elsewhere and still have many questions. I will just post them here and anyone who has a response to any or all please do so. Don't feel compelled to respond to them all.

It seems to me, that by nature, I am "submissive". I have always been a "service provider" in my career...putting the needs of others ahead of my own on a daily basis. That, I realize, does not make me a "submissive" but it is a personality characteristic and a choice in life. I am trying to sort out if it would ever really be possible for me to submit completely to a dominant partner...if I trusted that partner enough. So here are the questions.

1. Submissives make a commitment to a Dom/me but that does not always mean the submission is easy or non-negotiable as the relationship grows. Is that correct?

2. I have been exploring online the Dom/Sub relationship dynamics with a couple people who call themselves Dominant. Sometimes it feels like they expect too much too fast and I try to be honest in that. For example, one may say things like: Say it: I am yours.

I will say it as a practice thing even if I don't feel it yet but if questioned due to hesitation will answer honestly: I want to mean that or I want to want that. When in truth I don't necessarily believe we've built up enough trust for me to mean it fully. But I feel saying it is a practice to meaning it and I trust my instinct if it tells me ABSOLUTELY do not say that to this person. Is this how one builds such a relationship? LOL.

3. Is humiliation/degradation in front of others usually/always part of a Dom/Sub relationship or can limits be set between the partners on the boundaries of such things? I am not a willing candidate for what I would feel is "degradation" by another/others without resistance/rebellion and so I wonder if I could truly be submissive.

OK...that's enough for now...I have more but more will only serve I think to complicate things for me.

Let me just add that this exploration goes beyond a desire to have this relationship with a dominant partner in life. I think allowing oneself to submit to LIFE is the bigger goal...and that which I truly aspire to.

Thanks to anyone who is willing to provide insight or good links for reading.

 

[nymphee]

Do you mind me sending you a private message poppy?

 

[poppy1963]

Do you mind me sending you a private message poppy?

No, not at all.

 

[catalina_francisco]

As you deleted the original post, do you want this thread removed?

Catalina

 

[poppy1963]

As you deleted the original post, do you want this thread removed?

Catalina

Yes...I think I need to rethink posting it on the Board but I am not sure. Do you think that would be best?

 

[bronntanas]

YMMV, as these things are purely subjective. I'm speaking from my observations/experience only.

1. Submissives make a commitment to a Dom/me but that does not always mean the submission is easy or non-negotiable as the relationship grows. Is that correct?

Yes.

It's not always easy, and in most cases, negotiation is an option. Some Master/slave relationships do not allow for negotiation though. Set your limits clearly in the beginning, but be aware that these relationships tend to evolve all the time.

2. I have been exploring online the Dom/Sub relationship dynamics with a couple people who call themselves Dominant. Sometimes it feels like they expect too much too fast and I try to be honest in that. For example, one may say things like: Say it: I am yours.

I will say it as a practice thing even if I don't feel it yet but if questioned due to hesitation will answer honestly: I want to mean that or I want to want that. When in truth I don't necessarily believe we've built up enough trust for me to mean it fully. But I feel saying it is a practice to meaning it and I trust my instinct if it tells me ABSOLUTELY do not say that to this person. Is this how one builds such a relationship? LOL.

I'm sort of confused here.

If you're asking do you lie about your feelings, I don't think that's a good idea. But in my relationships, there has been some cases of "fake it 'til you make it". There are some things that I do now that would have been unthinkable a year or so now.

If you're asking if you should trust your instincts, yes you should. If something inside you is saying "this ain't right!" and you're uncomfortable about it, I'd listen. Especially if you've told them that they're moving a bit fast for you.

3. Is humiliation/degradation in front of others usually/always part of a Dom/Sub relationship or can limits be set between the partners on the boundaries of such things? I am not a willing candidate for what I would feel is "degradation" by another/others without resistance/rebellion and so I wonder if I could truly be submissive.

I would love to find whoever is telling people that humiliation is a must and shake them or something. I think it's one of those stereotypes that comes from all the stroke stories and stuff.

Some people get off on humilation. Some people don't. Again, state your limits and desires clearly and go from there. Be wary of emotional blackmail. "You would if you loved me" is never a good thing. Or "I guess you're not a true (or real) submissive" is another one to look out for. I don't get off on humiliation. My Mistress's other submissive does. Though we have group um, dates and such, she is mindful of what everyone's needs are.

D/s relationships vary according to the participants. There are always people around who try to claim that theirs is the "One TRUE Way" and if you don't do it their way, you're wrong. Or they try to codify this into protocols that everyone must follow, all the time, no questions asked. There aren't any hard and fast rules and regs for this thing.

 

[Betticus]

Yes...I think I need to rethink posting it on the Board but I am not sure. Do you think that would be best?

Not at all because now I'm dying of curiosity!!!!! Bad girl!

 

[poppy1963]

Not at all because now I'm dying of curiosity!!!!! Bad girl!

It is not a "bad girl" thing...it really does go beyond a sexual/one-to-one relationship thing for me. It is part of the process of our relationship with the Creator. That piece is the most significant for me....and I am treading on strange ground here...as usual.

 

[poppy1963]

Ok...I am going to let it stand! It was my first trusting inclination to post it. So...I will trust that power that led me to be forthright.

 

[nymphee]

Right, stupidly long and convoluted PM winging it's way to you x

 

[Betticus]

It is not a "bad girl" thing...it really does go beyond a sexual/one-to-one relationship thing for me. It is part of the process of our relationship with the Creator. That piece is the most significant for me....and I am treading on strange ground here...as usual.

It's not so much of a sexual relationship question for me either but sexuality is there.

As to your thoughts there are no rules to any of this. Every one of us is different and we all have the full range of emotions and needs. You can't just adopt an attitude of unflinching dominance or submissiveness with no break in or evolution of your self. You might need to be spanked one day and taken to a spa the next.

So when you submit to someone just for them to feel good but you don't feel it or believe it are you okay with that?

What ideal relationship would satisfy you? What is it that you need deep down inside in order to be happy?

 

[Betticus]

Right, stupidly long and convoluted PM winging it's way to you x

Yeah, it's a very difficult question to answer.

 

[poppy1963]

Right, stupidly long and convoluted PM winging it's way to you x

No...not at all! I think you are a wonderful person and you were quite helpful. I will read the story you recommended...and we shall talk some more.

Thank you!

 

[poppy1963]

In ways I see this path of the submissive as yet another fascinating path to "freedom from ego"....amazing how there are so many paths to it for those who seek it.

 

[nymphee]

Yeah, it's a very difficult question to answer.

Complicated answer, a fondness for big words and rather liking the sound of my own voice make the a menage a trois just destined to make one's brain whimper.

 

[Betticus]

Complicated answer, a fondness for big words and rather liking the sound of my own voice make the a menage a trois just destined to make one's brain whimper.

I think I'm reading too much into it.

Is this about trying to be submissive to someone that doesn't bring that out in you?

Is it about feeling submissive but frustrated that you aren't finding that perfect relationship?

 

[nymphee]

No no, it's about me sending poppy a PM garenteed to make her head spin!!!

 

[catalina_francisco]

1. Submissives make a commitment to a Dom/me but that does not always mean the submission is easy or non-negotiable as the relationship grows. Is that correct?

As has been said, these things are subjective and need to be discussed with each new partner/s, but I will try and answer in general terms perhaps with bias from my own experiences.

Whatever commitment is made, it is negotiable usually at particular agreed upon times, unless you enter into a relationship like ours where I have given up that right. IME, those who seriously approach a D/s relationship, find submission is not easy. There are some whereby the Dom/me may only ever set tasks and expectations they know will be easy for the submissive...my thoughts on that arrangement is it devalues the sub and doesn't demonstrate trust in them that they are serious and/or capable about submitting, and also leaves the Dom/me open to losing the submissive if they become bored and want more challenges to help them grow and demonstrate their devotion and worth. Submission is a challenge, but can also be a joy and bring about a sense of achievement.

2. I have been exploring online the Dom/Sub relationship dynamics with a couple people who call themselves Dominant. Sometimes it feels like they expect too much too fast and I try to be honest in that. For example, one may say things like: Say it: I am yours.

I will say it as a practice thing even if I don't feel it yet but if questioned due to hesitation will answer honestly: I want to mean that or I want to want that. When in truth I don't necessarily believe we've built up enough trust for me to mean it fully. But I feel saying it is a practice to meaning it and I trust my instinct if it tells me ABSOLUTELY do not say that to this person. Is this how one builds such a relationship? LOL.

My thoughts are you do not say anything you do not mean as it forms a basis for lying and dishonesty. If it is demanded of you, IMHO it demonstrates the Dom/me in question is either too impatient to be concerned about your comfort and honesty, or they are insecure in their ability to win anothe's submission in any way other than demanding and bullying it. Either reason is not a good one in terms of a long and safe future for me. Submission cannot be demanded just as trust cannot be demanded.....they are both earned through careful and thoughtful processes which make it a desire of all involved, not an order.

3. Is humiliation/degradation in front of others usually/always part of a Dom/Sub relationship or can limits be set between the partners on the boundaries of such things? I am not a willing candidate for what I would feel is "degradation" by another/others without resistance/rebellion and so I wonder if I could truly be submissive.

Limits should always be discussed and set, at least in the beginning of a relationship, and then as time passes can be reviewed and changed if necessary. There is always something which will change as that is part of the growth process for all involved, but there is often also things included as hard limits which may never change. If you do not feel comfortable in this type situation you have mentioned, don't commit to it and make sure whoever you interact with respects that limit. We do not play or socialise publicly so for us it is not something which happens in front of others. That being said, I have been in situations where there may be one or 2 others present and the acts which took place were within my limits, though still were not easy to contemplate. They did turn out to be fun, but it is tstill a situation which stresses me at the mention, but which I am also drawn to. It is not for everyone though, and should not be pushed if you feel strongly about avoiding it.


Catalina

 

[poppy1963]

Thank you SO much to everyone responding. This is hard for me as I am starting out a bit late in life to explore this way...but it does compel me on many levels to do so.

I will take some time to read all the responses so far and any yet to come...and reply. I just am nervous for putting myself out there on this thing.

Doh...

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you SO much to everyone responding. This is hard for me as I am starting out a bit late in life to explore this way...but it does compel me on many levels to do so.

I will take some time to read all the responses so far and any yet to come...and reply. I just am nervous for putting myself out there on this thing.

Doh...

LOL, don't let age stand in your way....I was into my 40's and a granny!! And hey, I managed to find a gorgeous, sadistic Spanish Master who was 9 years younger and on the other side of the planet....we have been together and married just over 4 years now and never looked back.

Catalina

 

[poppy1963]

LOL, don't let age stand in your way....I was into my 40's and a granny!! And hey, I managed to find a gorgeous, sadistic Spanish Master who was 9 years younger and on the other side of the planet....we have been together and married just over 4 years now and never looked back.

Catalina

We are in the same age range then! LOL..good to MEET you Catalina...and I have a younger buddy now too...who seems quite wise and sweet. I think I hit pay dirt and probably by more than I realize til I read all the posts!!!

Thanks again, all!

What a story Catalina! Congrats to you..***** sure can change on the spin of a dime, eh?

 

[poppy1963]

YMMV, as these things are purely subjective. I'm speaking from my observations/experience only.



Yes.

It's not always easy, and in most cases, negotiation is an option. Some Master/slave relationships do not allow for negotiation though. Set your limits clearly in the beginning, but be aware that these relationships tend to evolve all the time.



I'm sort of confused here.

If you're asking do you lie about your feelings, I don't think that's a good idea. But in my relationships, there has been some cases of "fake it 'til you make it". There are some things that I do now that would have been unthinkable a year or so now.

If you're asking if you should trust your instincts, yes you should. If something inside you is saying "this ain't right!" and you're uncomfortable about it, I'd listen. Especially if you've told them that they're moving a bit fast for you.



I would love to find whoever is telling people that humiliation is a must and shake them or something. I think it's one of those stereotypes that comes from all the stroke stories and stuff.

Some people get off on humilation. Some people don't. Again, state your limits and desires clearly and go from there. Be wary of emotional blackmail. "You would if you loved me" is never a good thing. Or "I guess you're not a true (or real) submissive" is another one to look out for. I don't get off on humiliation. My Mistress's other submissive does. Though we have group um, dates and such, she is mindful of what everyone's needs are.

D/s relationships vary according to the participants. There are always people around who try to claim that theirs is the "One TRUE Way" and if you don't do it their way, you're wrong. Or they try to codify this into protocols that everyone must follow, all the time, no questions asked. There aren't any hard and fast rules and regs for this thing.

Thank you! Obviously I need to learn alot and I learn best in "interactions" rather than just through reading. I've been lurking and asking questions on the board threads at times...as I am not sure how to evaluate...and the "fake it til you make it thing" seemed like an ok way as long as it was on the table that that's what I might be doing sometimes.

*sighs* This is complicated stuff for me. But maybe I'm just making it more so than it has to be.

More later as I reread the replies and let the ideas sink in.

 

[FurryFury]

I have been reading alot in the Library and elsewhere and still have many questions. I will just post them here and anyone who has a response to any or all please do so. Don't feel compelled to respond to them all.

It seems to me, that by nature, I am "submissive". I have always been a "service provider" in my career...putting the needs of others ahead of my own on a daily basis. That, I realize, does not make me a "submissive" but it is a personality characteristic and a choice in life. I am trying to sort out if it would ever really be possible for me to submit completely to a dominant partner...if I trusted that partner enough. So here are the questions.

1. Submissives make a commitment to a Dom/me but that does not always mean the submission is easy or non-negotiable as the relationship grows. Is that correct?

2. I have been exploring online the Dom/Sub relationship dynamics with a couple people who call themselves Dominant. Sometimes it feels like they expect too much too fast and I try to be honest in that. For example, one may say things like: Say it: I am yours.

I will say it as a practice thing even if I don't feel it yet but if questioned due to hesitation will answer honestly: I want to mean that or I want to want that. When in truth I don't necessarily believe we've built up enough trust for me to mean it fully. But I feel saying it is a practice to meaning it and I trust my instinct if it tells me ABSOLUTELY do not say that to this person. Is this how one builds such a relationship? LOL.

3. Is humiliation/degradation in front of others usually/always part of a Dom/Sub relationship or can limits be set between the partners on the boundaries of such things? I am not a willing candidate for what I would feel is "degradation" by another/others without resistance/rebellion and so I wonder if I could truly be submissive.

OK...that's enough for now...I have more but more will only serve I think to complicate things for me.

Let me just add that this exploration goes beyond a desire to have this relationship with a dominant partner in life. I think allowing oneself to submit to LIFE is the bigger goal...and that which I truly aspire to.

Thanks to anyone who is willing to provide insight or good links for reading.

1. I'd say you have that absolutely correct from what I've been able to gather.

2. Online is one thing. Rarely is it done with finesse but rather with greedy pushing from what I've seen. In short most online "Doms" are not what they claim. Any pushing that you are uncomfortable with, you should go with your gut about that and discuss it. If they are unwilling to work with you and be understanding they are probably not the "right" person for you, IMO.

3. Some people are not into humiliation and degrading on either the D or s side this is something that must be decided when looking for a good "fit." Though your limits are likely to change as you explore. (As always, these are only my opinions.)

Good luck. Remember asking questions is a wonderful learning process.

Fury

 

[poppy1963]

1. I'd say you have that absolutely correct from what I've been able to gather.

2. Online is one thing. Rarely is it done with finesse but rather with greedy pushing from what I've seen. In short most online "Doms" are not what they claim. Any pushing that you are uncomfortable with, you should go with your gut about that and discuss it. If they are unwilling to work with you and be understanding they are probably not the "right" person for you, IMO.

3. Some people are not into humiliation and degrading on either the D or s side this is something that must be decided when looking for a good "fit." Though your limits are likely to change as you explore. (As always, these are only my opinions.)

Good luck. Remember asking questions is a wonderful learning process.

Fury

I should add, I've had some phone contacts as well...and that is where I've felt the most unsure of things...I am not in any way saying that these men are/were doing anything to PUSH me too hard...I'm just unsure of myself and how to evaluate if this is for me really or not! It has a unique aspect...that I believe is an area where I would like to find a way to not fear abandoning the ego thing more...the fear.

I want to leave the fear behind.

All fear.

LOL!

....and just BE alive...and in sync...with the vibrations of life.

Weird, huh?

 

[nymphee]

I
I want to leave the fear behind.

All fear.

LOL!

....and just BE alive...and in sync...with the vibrations of life.

Weird, huh?

God, yeah, wanting to be happy, what a freak, LOL!