Underage characters!

[HandsInTheDark]

So when Laurel says 'no underage sex' she includes all its parts and properties and potentials.

I wish it (or anything) was that simple. If the rule was"people under 18 can't have sex in a lit story" it would be very easy. You could have a high school sophomore who was held back twice, and if the author said she was 18, the story would be permitted, because there's the 18 right there in print. Non-humans would be exempt.

In practice that's not going to work. To get where Laurel's going, the rule has to be "if it APPEARS TO BE a human under 18," Etc. Which opens up a world of judgment calls and ambiguities. Which is why you need a full page of text to spell out the implications and why people will probably continue to look for edge cases.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I wish it (or anything) was that simple. If the rule was"people under 18 can't have sex in a lit story" it would be very easy. You could have a high school sophomore who was held back twice, and if the author said she was 18, the story would be permitted, because there's the 18 right there in print. Non-humans would be exempt.

In practice that's not going to work. To get where Laurel's going, the rule has to be "if it APPEARS TO BE a human under 18," Etc. Which opens up a world of judgment calls and ambiguities. Which is why you need a full page of text to spell out the implications and why people will probably continue to look for edge cases.

I imagine Laurel has no time to play with LIT lawyers after loopholes.

Years ago I raided a porn studio looking for underage girls. I found two, but both were barely over the legal line of 18. They bought me a Pepsi and proudly showed me their photo albums. I thought, THEY BEEN MIGHTY BUSY SINCE THEY TURNED 18. But they were legal. Ran into lotsa barely legal girls shacking with old fucks.

 

[TamLin01]

I wish it (or anything) was that simple. If the rule was"people under 18 can't have sex in a lit story" it would be very easy. You could have a high school sophomore who was held back twice, and if the author said she was 18, the story would be permitted, because there's the 18 right there in print. Non-humans would be exempt.

In practice that's not going to work. To get where Laurel's going, the rule has to be "if it APPEARS TO BE a human under 18," Etc. Which opens up a world of judgment calls and ambiguities. Which is why you need a full page of text to spell out the implications and why people will probably continue to look for edge cases.

If you'll pardon the contrariness, I'd say it's not really THAT hard to figure out at all. The rules is no underage sex, and also (this one is critical) no trying to sneak in kiddie porn thinly disguised as legal age sex. The latter phenomena is agonizingly obvious when you eventually encounter it, and there's actually not much ambiguity about the point at all.

The only real problem is when a story that's actually blameless on its merits gets caught up in safeguards against the above, because accidents happen. But no system is ever perfect, and the execution of the rules don't technically have much to do with the rules themselves.

 

[LadyVer]

And there are more people who lose their virginity after 18 than people like to think.

 

[Tw0Cr0ws]

Some writers here carry it to the extreme that the characters don't know that sex exists until they turn 18
(How they manage that without raising them in an isolated cave I have no idea)

Other writers have high school juniors turning 18, they were described as average to good students so not held back.

 

[Hypoxia]

To get where Laurel's going, the rule has to be "if it APPEARS TO BE a human under 18," Etc. Which opens up a world of judgment calls and ambiguities.

Emphasis on the critical point. A millennia-old alien immortal who looks like an underage human is verboten. But underage humans who magically morph into adult banana slugs can fuck like, well, hermaphroditic molluscs. And a supposedly 18-year-old who looks and acts 14 can't have sex. That is, their sexual experience can be reported ("her marriage and impregnation at 14 was legal in Maine") but kid-sex can't be described here. That includes voyeurism, and adults (or other kids) even thinking about sex with the kid.

Is there wiggle-room? Sure. I've not tried this yet, and I don't know if I even want to, but someone might be 18+ physically while a child mentally. Maybe they're retarded, or they were comatose between ages 14 and 19, or their 14-year-old mind/brain was transplanted into an adult body.* Those looking to bend rules might find an opening here. Not me; I have other tales to tell.

(*) I've read at least one series here where a 14-year-old magically awakens in an 18-year-old body. So this approach apparently satisfies Laurel.

 

[OmnislashXX]

The subject is open to interpretation but when it comes to Literotica's Under 18 Rule, Laurel's stance on it ( in my experience anyway) is that anyone involved in any sexual situations cannot be under the age of eighteen. This does not exclude any supporting characters that the protagonists may engage in any acts around. (Example being the story I submitted where the Father's sixteen year old daughter and her friend are in the backseat of the car while the 18 year old protagonist starts up with some spontanious exhibitionism, unbeknownst to the people in the back.)

The mention of any underage characters maybe enough for a rejection, But the parapgragh explaining the rule alludes to as much.

So, If you want to write about a couple who try to have sex under some coats while sitting in the stadium watching the baseball game, I believe that's fine, but if you mention that some underage people are sitting somewhere close by, it stands to reason that it'll probably be rejected. Play it safe and keep the under eighteens out of your erotic scenes.

 

[8letters]

I appreciate your effort, but I think you need to have a section that discusses what's likely to not get rejected. Some of my stories are set in the summer after high school graduation. I've not mentioned ages or birthdays in those stories, but they have seemed to go through without a problem. For a long time, I was concerned about characters over 18 discussing when they had sex before they were 18. Discussing having sex when you were under 18 is apparently okay, but I'd guess describing it would get you rejected.

I've partially written a Dad & Daughter story that starts when the daughter is seven and I think it skates just inside the 18 rule until she hits 18. Sex happens in the story while she's under 18, but she's never exposed to it. No one considers her sexually until the very end. But as I've never seen a story like that on LitE, I'm not in a rush to finish it as the chance of it getting rejected is so high. I'll probably contact Laurel about it once the Summer Lovin' contest is over.

 

[sr71plt]

I've not mentioned ages or birthdays in those stories, but they have seemed to go through without a problem.

Yes, they'll go through fine. But the authors trying to cut it closer than this are mostly trying for the underage reader crowd, so it wouldn't work with them. You'd have to somehow skate with still being able to use "high school" and "teenager" and then use "over 18" with a wink.

I wasn't 18 until the summer after high school graduation, though. But then I didn't have penetrative sex until I was 21--and then did what I could to make up for lost time.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

When the circumstances make the question doubtful, I use 'legal age'. Never had a problem since I started doing that. But I'd rather write about real adults, anyway.

 

[OmnislashXX]

I know the 18 Rule can be problematic, but it really can lead to better storytelling in the long run. I would probably never have thought of the occurring plot lines I now wish to write about in my novel. It still can't be published on Literotica, but it's thanks to Literotica's rule that the story will be going in that direction.

My advice: Write a disclaimer or Synopsis before the story, especially if you wish to reveal ages in later chapters through natural story flow. For example, you pick up a paperback book and read the back. The Synopsis gives the reader a sense what the story is about and is a chance for you to explain your character ages.

 

[TxRad]

Explaining characters ages has nothing to do with anything if they are under 18 or act like they are under 18.

The rule for Lit is no sex or anything sexual in nature before the character is 18. Period. No exceptions. Period.

If ya can't live by that rule, carry your shit somewhere else.

 

[OmnislashXX]

Explaining characters ages has nothing to do with anything if they are under 18 or act like they are under 18.

The rule for Lit is no sex or anything sexual in nature before the character is 18. Period. No exceptions. Period.

If ya can't live by that rule, carry your shit somewhere else.

A person can be legal and still act immature. Same goes for an under aged character that has to assume adult like roles (I'm talking about doing things like parenting or paying bills, so don't assume that means I'm talking about anything sexual.)

As long as the character is clarified as being aged eighteen and being mature enough to know or have the ability to understand sexuality for what it is, that should be good enough.

This issue is never going to be the cut black and white that some I believe wish it to be.

But yes, there are other websites. Most also follow the eighteen rule but don't put such a strict interpretation on it. I suggest trying them out.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, just stop--and/or take your arguments directly to Laurel, by PM.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think the intent of this thread has been met. I don't think the OP wanted a clarification thread so it wouldn't keep coming up, they wanted to see the discussion continue and get their jollies because they love the subject. Evidenced by contributing so heavily to under age discussion in another thread it was completely erased.


This topic could come up once a day, and despite everyone saying they are sick of it, it will still get a ton of responses and turn into the same arguments.

There should be a sticky at the top of the forum and an updated and more easily navigated FAQ

Anytime the topic comes up the thread should be closed. It never leads anywhere. People who don't try to get away with it, never will and people who want to write it will always try. Nothing said here sways that in either direction.

 

[OmnislashXX]

Pretty much agree with you there Lovecraft. It's a sensitive issue it seems. Close this topic and lets all move along.

 

[Kantarii]

I think the intent of this thread has been met. I don't think the OP wanted a clarification thread so it wouldn't keep coming up, they wanted to see the discussion continue and get their jollies because they love the subject. Evidenced by contributing so heavily to under age discussion in another thread it was completely erased.


This topic could come up once a day, and despite everyone saying they are sick of it, it will still get a ton of responses and turn into the same arguments.

There should be a sticky at the top of the forum and an updated and more easily navigated FAQ

Anytime the topic comes up the thread should be closed. It never leads anywhere. People who don't try to get away with it, never will and people who want to write it will always try. Nothing said here sways that in either direction.

The underage question on this site makes me think of all the "Does size matter?" questions asked by insecure people on Internet dating sites. The questions are usually asked by one of two kinds of people: insecure and attention whores. So, I'm going to echo what you said. Kudos!Kant

 

[PervOtaku]

If anything, you could keep a collection of links to older threads where such things were discussed, and drop those into any new threads. If nothing else it proves the point that nobody's ever going to come up with anything new to say about it.

The reason new threads keep happening is that Lit's rules on such matters are not easy to find and/or are not actually spelled out anywhere in an official capacity. And the reason for that is Laurel seems to prefer taking things on a case-by-case basis and according to her mood that day or what have you, rather than have a clear list of rules that will inevitably lead to people trying to play rules lawyer.

A short but thorough canned reply isn't a bad idea per se, as long as you also make it clear it's not official, rather it's just the general shape of things that we've gleaned over the years, and Laurel is always the sole arbiter.

 

[oggbashan]

If anything, you could keep a collection of links to older threads where such things were discussed, and drop those into any new threads. If nothing else it proves the point that nobody's ever going to come up with anything new to say about it.

...

We had that for a while - the Authors' Hangout Library as a sticky at the top of the Authors' Hangout. But the 'Librarian' is missing.

This thread:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=596858

It hasn't been updated for a long time.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

and they must be registerd

When, back in the mists of time, Laurel introduced her 'no under-18' sex rule, she explained it most succinctly.

No internet sex video can feature characters under-18 and the actors must be registered.

laurel said she was concerned that, working in the same medium, she might get attacked for any under-18written sex on the net from lit, even if fiction hence the rule.

As in most things, she made a practical commercial decision and we all benefit from it.

No point in starting a debate.

 

[Handley_Page]

Explaining characters ages has nothing to do with anything if they are under 18 or act like they are under 18.

The rule for Lit is no sex or anything sexual in nature before the character is 18. Period. No exceptions. Period.

If ya can't live by that rule, carry your shit somewhere else.

Perhaps this thread should be moved to "Fetish Central"?
It's getting awfully tiring.