Under Seige

[mack_the_knife]

I've been posting a new storyline and have made the decision to keep the sexual content low-key. This was not commented upon until I posted a statement at the end of the current chapters that said something to that effect.

Suddenly, I'm being bombarded by spiteful letters that say things that border on, if not cross, the line of insulting my abilities to write. I know full well that I'm not as good as some out there, hence my lack of a book deal. However, I'm not sure what to think of the people who praised me a week ago and now denegrate what skill I might have.

If this is where you're headed, forget the "10's" I
gave you. I don't think you even quite deserve "7's".
Not to mention there's a huge probability that I'll
stop reading your stories altogether...and believe
me...I won't be the last...you're gonna lose readers
in droves whether they take the time to write like I
am (most won't), or not.

What a waste Mack, what a goddamned, useless fucking
waste. Whoever, or whatever convinced you of this
recently announced course of action is a fucking
idiot. No way you can do what you said and go head to
head with much of any competition. What a bummer...

So, without the explicit and detailed description of sex, I'm just a hack? I'm not sure how to respond to this, and posted a response in my blog showing my upset about this matter.

I'm curious if anyone else here has received such turn about from their readers and what did you do to either a) ignore it or b) respond.

Note - I've written 1 novel, 3 novellas and numerous short stories. Of those, 1 novella and only this current novel has been 'mild' in content - which is not to say it has no sex, I just didn't go into ad-nauseum detail about it.

 

[HappyLlama]

Do two versions.
Post the sex in the usual place and post the 'serious' stuff in novellas.

Everyone's happy!

I'm happy!

 

[BlackShanglan]

I'm sorry, Mack. It's always rough when an author wants to shift around a bit and change perspective; sometimes the fans feel bitter about it because they can't imagine anything being better than what you've been doing. Take that as the compliment it is - they like what you've done! - and recognize that they probably more fearful of what might be than upset about what actually is. If they didn't post the negative feedback until you actually announced that you were headed in a new direction, they are probably not that upset with what you're actually writing - just with where it might go. They don't want their toys taken away, and promising that there will be other toys won't always assuage the fears they feel at the disappearance of the current ones.

Most of them will stay, I would guess, if they've liked what they've seen so far. They like your style and your talent, and no reader with any sort of open mind will feel that a good author must be defined by rigidly limited material. If one or two readers - surely very much the minority - are so stuck on heavily detailed sex scenes that they won't follow even a great author beyond them, then perhaps it's worth asking if they're worth catering to. It's good to know your audience and to appeal to your audience, but it's not generally worth letting them put a straitjacket on you.

Just my tuppence -

Shanglan

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I've been posting a new storyline and have made the decision to keep the sexual content low-key. This was not commented upon until I posted a statement at the end of the current chapters that said something to that effect.

Suddenly, I'm being bombarded by spiteful letters that say things that border on, if not cross, the line of insulting my abilities to write. I know full well that I'm not as good as some out there, hence my lack of a book deal. However, I'm not sure what to think of the people who praised me a week ago and now denegrate what skill I might have.



So, without the explicit and detailed description of sex, I'm just a hack? I'm not sure how to respond to this, and posted a response in my blog showing my upset about this matter.

I'm curious if anyone else here has received such turn about from their readers and what did you do to either a) ignore it or b) respond.

Note - I've written 1 novel, 3 novellas and numerous short stories. Of those, 1 novella and only this current novel has been 'mild' in content - which is not to say it has no sex, I just didn't go into ad-nauseum detail about it.

Do whatever you feel the story needs. If one reader turns away because the sexual content isn't as high, so be it. But the idea that people turn away from such stories is quite bogus. I have readers say they sometimes skip the sex entirely when the story is good enough.

Make yourself happy with the story . . . it's the best way to make your readers happy as a whole.

 

[mack_the_knife]

Do two versions.
Post the sex in the usual place and post the 'serious' stuff in novellas.

Everyone's happy!

I'm happy!

If I had more time, I might just do that. However, I've been reduced to writing about a chapter a week (8-10k words) if I'm lucky. If I end up doing a major rewrite, then I'm gonna be falling behind the schedule I've set for myself.

 

[mack_the_knife]

I'm sorry, Mack. It's always rough when an author wants to shift around a bit and change perspective; sometimes the fans feel bitter about it because they can't imagine anything being better than what you've been doing. Take that as the compliment it is - they like what you've done! - and recognize that they probably more fearful of what might be than upset about what actually is. If they didn't post the negative feedback until you actually announced that you were headed in a new direction, they are probably not that upset with what you're actually writing - just with where it might go. They don't want their toys taken away, and promising that there will be other toys won't always assuage the fears they feel at the disappearance of the current ones.

Most of them will stay, I would guess, if they've liked what they've seen so far. They like your style and your talent, and no reader with any sort of open mind will feel that a good author must be defined by rigidly limited material. If one or two readers - surely very much the minority - are so stuck on heavily detailed sex scenes that they won't follow even a great author beyond them, then perhaps it's worth asking if they're worth catering to. It's good to know your audience and to appeal to your audience, but it's not generally worth letting them put a straitjacket on you.

Just my tuppence -

Shanglan

I probably should have pointed that out. Nothing got said until I made a little announcement of a bit of work being done to the first chapter of the story to tighten up the plotline and it happened to remove the only explicit sex that occured in 12 chapters. I'm pretty sure had I not made the comment and simply changed it, none of the backlash would have occured. I've since removed the comment. We'll see how they react to the naked unexplicitness of it without attention being called to it.

I'm deleting the blog posting, as well, since it seems that calling attention to the matter is the source of much of the discontent.

By the way the novella and, so far, this novel are my highest-rated stories on that site...go figure.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Do whatever you feel the story needs. If one reader turns away because the sexual content isn't as high, so be it. But the idea that people turn away from such stories is quite bogus. I have readers say they sometimes skip the sex entirely when the story is good enough.

Make yourself happy with the story . . . it's the best way to make your readers happy as a whole.

Also, you need to ask yourself: Am I writing for my audience, or for myself? Because there comes a point where each writer has to decide how to proceed. Do I go on following this path that seems to be working out okay, or do I extend myself and take a chance, try something new, maybe fail, but maybe go in a new direction and find something really rewarding?

That's just been my experience anyway. That's why I've not posted any stories on Lit since last year. I decided I needed a new path.

Best wishes

 

[BlackShanglan]

All sigs over 8 lines in height are sad cries for help.

I just wanted to add that I love that line from your sig.

 

[mack_the_knife]

Also, you need to ask yourself: Am I writing for my audience, or for myself? Because there comes a point where each writer has to decide how to proceed. Do I go on following this path that seems to be working out okay, or do I extend myself and take a chance, try something new, maybe fail, but maybe go in a new direction and find something really rewarding?

That's just been my experience anyway. That's why I've not posted any stories on Lit since last year. I decided I needed a new path.

Best wishes

I understand that. Several of my stories do not appear on Lit, for the simple reason that I feel they will be poorly received, though I was pleasantly surprised after being talked into one submission that has done reasonably well.

 

[3113]

It's all about the story....

Suddenly, I'm being bombarded by spiteful letters that say things that border on, if not cross, the line of insulting my abilities to write. I know full well that I'm not as good as some out there, hence my lack of a book deal.

Well, let's put this all into persepective:
1) A lack of a book deal proves nothing in regards to your ability to write or not. Honest. If it did, every book published would be a brilliant work of literary art. There's tons of terrible trash out there and stuff gets published that shouldn't for outrageous reasons--a famous name, connections, sex with the editor....or just because the writer's last book sold...never mind that this one is a piece of shit.

So. No more saying you're not up to par because you don't have a book deal.

2) On THEIR side, this is an erotica site and that is what a lot of folk come here for. There is a section for stories without erotic content. So there might well be a feeling among some of the readers that you tricked them. Teased them and led them on--you're going to give them everything but what they're really hoping for, what they've come to love from you. it's not that they were reading the story for that...but they want it as well as the foreplay...not just the foreplay.

And this is not unreasonable. It's especially unfair of you to have left off telling them that they weren't going to get to come until they were a few chapters in! You ought to have been upfront with the news--or posted your story in the "non-erotic" section.

So. Score one on their side. In addition, it is something of a back-handed compliment if they want more from you, even if it's just more sex. It does put you in a kind of Stephen-King's Misery position, but that's what comes of having fans. They like what they like. And you've done something very right that they like very much...and are angry and frustrated that they're not going to get from one of their fave authors.

3) On YOUR side: why did you decide to do this? If the answer is that the story required it, then you owe no one an apology (outside of the fact that you should have said upfront what you were going to do). The story is paramount. And if the story didn't need that much sex--or if it was a no-sex story, then that's what it is. Period.

The question is, is it YOU who don't want the sex, or is it the story? That's all that matters in the end. And the story wins. Always. Hands down. Whatever it needs, you give it. And don't let anyone bully you into changing your mind.

4) On the other hand, don't push a policy that you made at the expence of the story! This is the last and most important point. Don't do something just because you feel like it or because you have some new morality (Smoking is wrong so even though I know in my heart this character smokes, I'm going to make them a non-smoker....) or just to show those bastards who's in charge.

These are not good reasons for a policy change.

So why did you make this decision? If you have any doubts about whether you're cheating the story--never mind the readers!--send it to someone you trust; one of us writers, who you feel can give you an honest answer....IF you're in doubt. If you're not, then do what needs to be done to make the story the best it can be.

Does that help?

 

[elsol]

Yes... when I wrote "Below and Above"... *gasp* a female dominant story from ElSol... and the male protagonist NEVER turns the power on her..

OH... THE INHUMANITY!!!

My reaction:

You're the reader, I'm the writer... you have a choice, stop reading... the voices don't like it when I stop writing... right now, they don't like you, so I would back the fuck off.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Every time you experiment, you run a risk. be it as bold as a major chift in theme or as mild as experimenting with a new technique. Writing is not a static endeavor, uless you have hit a formulamatic presentation that is netting you income. It's dynamic, and you have to experiement or you cease to grow.

Not all readers will greet your experiments with praise. Not all will villify them, but some small portion will likely do each.

 

[Liar]

I've been posting a new storyline and have made the decision to keep the sexual content low-key. This was not commented upon until I posted a statement at the end of the current chapters that said something to that effect.

So, in effect... it can't be because you've omitted explicit sex. It's because after doing that for a while, you let them know that they had been reading pansy-ass softcore without realizing it, and loved it. Yeah, I can see how that might upset the "I like it rough because I'm so butch"-part of an audiece.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Every time you experiment, you run a risk. be it as bold as a major chift in theme or as mild as experimenting with a new technique. Writing is not a static endeavor, uless you have hit a formulamatic presentation that is netting you income. It's dynamic, and you have to experiement or you cease to grow.

Not all readers will greet your experiments with praise. Not all will villify them, but some small portion will likely do each.

right

and short fiction is always a gateway to the harder stuff... first it's novellas and then *gasp* novels! And soon after, maybe even a book deal....

 

[Colleen Thomas]

right

and short fiction is always a gateway to the harder stuff... first it's novellas and then *gasp* novels! And soon after, maybe even a book deal....

Only for those with talent

 

[elsol]

Dammit it mack... don't pussy out on me now.

Say it with me!

"You ain't paying me, so shut the fuck up! If I get a check in the mail, (minimum $500 dollars) then you can include a letter with your bullshit... for $1000, I'll actually read it."

We're writers, dammit... montrous egos and the stench of condescending to everyone are part of the package.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[carsonshepherd]

Only for those with talent

That wasn't a subtle hint directed at someone *coughcolleencough* or anything.

 

[Liar]

We're writers, dammit... montrous egos and the stench of condescending to everyone are part of the package.

I may have to quote you on that one.

Ok... I DID just quote you on that one...but you know what I mean.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

That wasn't a subtle hint directed at someone *coughcolleencough* or anything.

Of course not

*HUGS*

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Well....here's my 2 cents worth...

I have a series in the Incest/Taboo section that started off as just a regular little smut-fest. It has grown as the chapters have moved along. There is very little sex left in it, and I get a couple of dozen comments like this now with each chapter...."I find myself skipping over the sex to get back to the story." or "I would read this even if there was no sex in it."

So I am led to draw two conclusions. 1. I'm a decent writer. or 2. I can't write sex.

Bottom line...who the hell knows what keeps the readers happy, just write for yourself.