Undecided Voters? How can you still be undecided?

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[Liar]

Ask John Oliver

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[DG Hear]

So you'll just toss a coin, then?

Baffling.

Hi, Sarah: I'll just give my nickels worth (inflation you know). I'm not a big John Mccain backer but I will vote for him. At least I know where he stands on most issues and has a voting record I can see. (Even Biden has that) I don't know enough about Obama and what I have read about his voting, is too liberal for me.

Yes, he is a good talker but it takes more than talk to get my vote. The things he talks about doing doesn't add up in my book. This site pounced all over Palin for lack of knowledge. Obama to me is in the same spot. I don't know how voters get past the lack of his experience but degrade Palin for hers.

She is running as the VP. There is time to learn for her. The President needs to know right now. I understand that he needs to choose the right people for the right positions. I don't see that happening in the Democratic party.

This is why many of my democratic friends are still undecided.

Not an argument, just an opinion.
With respect
DG

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[DG Hear]

I respect your opinion but I don't agree. (Your republican friends are decided, though? Just the dems are confused?)

My democratic friends have no issues with being undecided.

It seems the cards are already on the table.

You are correct. My friends and relatives that I know are Repubicans are not undecided. My Democratic, and shall I call them Independents, Many are undecided. They will probably make their decision when they are in the booth. Take a chance on Obama or not.

More and more friends of mine vote split tickets and are more independent on their voting. Me included. I think this is good. Vote for the candidate, not the party. Vote your beliefs, not someone elses.

 

[JagFarlane]

So you'll just toss a coin, then?

Baffling.

Not really. And its not hard to be baffled. There is quite a bit of misinformation going about on both candidates. It takes time to sort through what is garbage and what is real. Then you have to sit down and weigh the two issues compared. Plus, you'll find topics that you support one on then a topic to support the other. Combine that with the fact that most forums one runs across, generally lean one way or the other, and followers of both candidates have been running their own smear campaigns. The amount of hatred, anger, lack of manners, and racism [on both sides] has been astonishing, to say the least, even in these boards with supposed adults. The amount of intolerance has been sad, as well as the amount of hypocrisy. In all truth, many of the followers of these two have made it even harder, because some of us grow so sick and tired of seeing the same trash spouted by followers that we are rapidly turned off from the election.

ETA: And for the record, I am listed as an independent, though my family has Democratic leanings.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Not really. And its not hard to be baffled. There is quite a bit of misinformation going about on both candidates. It takes time to sort through what is garbage and what is real. Then you have to sit down and weigh the two issues compared. Plus, you'll find topics that you support one on then a topic to support the other. Combine that with the fact that most forums one runs across, generally lean one way or the other, and followers of both candidates have been running their own smear campaigns. The amount of hatred, anger, lack of manners, and racism [on both sides] has been astonishing, to say the least, even in these boards with supposed adults. The amount of intolerance has been sad, as well as the amount of hypocrisy. In all truth, many of the followers of these two have made it even harder, because some of us grow so sick and tired of seeing the same trash spouted by followers that we are rapidly turned off from the election.

ETA: And for the record, I am listed as an independent, though my family has Democratic leanings.

Yes, Jag. Being an informed voter IS hard work. I REALLY wish more people would realize that fact. You need to study, to compare and, most importantly, you need to think and reason. If you have a mind to, it is easy to find somebody who will tell you eactly how to vote. No problem. You also can WORK and find varied information resources and THINK about who is saying what as opposed to blindly believing them.

Yeah, you are right. It's hard ork. But should electing the RIGHT freakin President be worth the effort?

 

[epiphany65]

Churchill once said "The only thing worse than democracy is the alternative." The older I get the more disillusioned and cynical I get about the democratic process and voters. We seem to vote for, or not vote for, a candidate based on what I consider unsound reasons, as opposed to basing it on an informed decision after weighing all of the candidates' platforms. In another thread I mentioned the woman who wasn't going to vote for McCain because his surname means Son of Cain. Some voters won't vote for Obama simply because he is black. Others vote one way because their parents always did or they have all their lives and rigidly adhere to their party ofd choice. I don't consider these people any better or worse than the voter who makes up his or her mind seconds before voting, but it all points to how fickle the process is and I wonder what percentage of people vote based on reasons that have nothing to do with policy issues that will effect them and their country. It's their choice, but I think it makes a mockery of the democratic process. I'm not singling out American voters here, although I'm using Obama and McCain as examples -- there are people like this in every democratic country in the world, including many here in Canada.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

My indecision right now is based on my dissatisfaction with both candidates. The things I think are most important, neither of them support. If Obama had voted against the immunity for telecoms, he'd have my vote in a heartbeat. But he didn't. (vote cited below)

The reason this is such a hot button for me is that it goes against the original bill of rights. We have due process, we have a way for agencies to get the warrants they need to do the work, there is no need to involve private companies, as huge and nation wide as they may be, to do the wiretaps.

Either nationalize the telecommunications industry, or hold the industry responsible when they break the law, even if by request of the NSA.

That and hearing Obama say "redistribute the wealth" sent a shiver down my spine. I don't think he is a socialist or a communist, but if he says "peace land and bread" I am expatriating so fast it will make the embassy spin.








http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00168

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm undecided.

I voted McGovern, Carter, John Anderson, Mondale, Dukakis, Perot, Dole, no vote, no vote.

McCain is maybe worse than Bush is about freedom (I think he may have liked the years he spent in Hanoi). Johnny weirds me out....I suspect his wife spanks him.

Obama......is Heinrich Himmler. Obama is a creepy guy.

I likely wont vote.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I likely wont vote.

You haven't voted in the past two presidential elections, and you won't vote in this one?

Sorry, dude. You've just lost your right to complain.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA

I beg to disagree. This isnt some god-forsaken place where people are forced to vote. NONE OF THE ABOVE is an option for some of us. I dont want my fingerprints on either of these losers.

I'm thinking there have been years when Academy Awards and Nobrl Prizes werent given...because sometimes the candidates dont deserve gold stars for mediocrity and worse.

 

[Kikori]

I'm with James. If we're complaining about candidates before they're even elected, why can't we complain after? There's been no-one good for a while, only lessers of two evils. That's a very valid complaint that we don't have to cast votes for just to be able to keep complaining.

The only reason I'm leaning toward McCain, and forgive my lack of in-depth knowledge on either candidate, is that Obama is quite literally a politician's politician. My friends and family see it, and a few even work with politicians and lawyers. Everyone recognizes that Obama is leaning on the utopia of "change" but not saying one dang thing about how to get there. He'll effectively knock down any other candidate's argument, sure, but he won't support his own except showing the ends without the means.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

SELENA

I beg to disagree. This isnt some god-forsaken place where people are forced to vote. NONE OF THE ABOVE is an option for some of us. I dont want my fingerprints on either of these losers.

Fine, you have the choice not to vote. Choosing not to decide is still making a choice.

But if you don't vote, you now have no right to complain. Unless you walk your cranky old ass into a booth and actually do the hard thing instead of the easy one, I don't want to hear from you whining about the state of the world because you did NOTHING to change it. Nothing. Nada.

There's no excuse for not voting, for the chance to affect your life and your government.

That lame-ass "Neither candidate is worthy of my vote" excuse dishonors every man and woman in this country who has suffered or died to have the right to vote in the first place. If you don't like either of those candidates, do what Sev did and vote for another one. There are plenty to choose from, if you decide to actually educate yourself about all of your actual choices.

You are either choosing not to vote to rationalize your own apathy and laziness, or you're trying to prove a point.

The problem with the latter is, if you're a non-voter out to prove a point with your non-vote, you have done actually nothing toward your cause, because your non-vote actually just gets lumped in with the votes of the winner.

To the victor goes the spoils.

The person who wins the election will just write over the message you were trying to send as a non-voter if it never happened at all. Your motivation in not voting really doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome. Your non-vote simply is an apathetic consent with the majority. You've effectively voted for the status-quo with your supposedly defiant "non-vote."

As a non-voter, you're just proving yourself to be a conformist and have let someone else decide your future.

So put your money where your mouth is. Or shut the hell up.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Not really. And its not hard to be baffled. There is quite a bit of misinformation going about on both candidates. It takes time to sort through what is garbage and what is real. Then you have to sit down and weigh the two issues compared. Plus, you'll find topics that you support one on then a topic to support the other. Combine that with the fact that most forums one runs across, generally lean one way or the other, and followers of both candidates have been running their own smear campaigns. The amount of hatred, anger, lack of manners, and racism [on both sides] has been astonishing, to say the least, even in these boards with supposed adults. The amount of intolerance has been sad, as well as the amount of hypocrisy. In all truth, many of the followers of these two have made it even harder, because some of us grow so sick and tired of seeing the same trash spouted by followers that we are rapidly turned off from the election.

ETA: And for the record, I am listed as an independent, though my family has Democratic leanings.

Lessee. We have many people complaining that Palin is not only ignorant but proud of being ignorant. We have an anonymous photo of four geeks wearing rude teeshirts. We have people pointing to the off-the-wall things that McCain has said and done, such as appointing an ignorant redneck as VP, and wondering if he'll have any restraint when he's across the table from some soveriegn ruler. We have pointed out his 99% with-Bush voting record, as an example of his "maverick' haha (sorrry) credentials.

On the other hand, we have McCain and Palin themselves claiming Obama is a; Ni**er, a terrorist, an elitist, a "community organiser" (seems to be a bad thing, the way she said it) lower class, upper class. We've seen Palin nod and flash thumbs up when people at her rallys call for lynching. We've seen the chairman of one of the largest organistaions of republican women in california send around an unbelievably offensive image including watermelon and fried chicken and foodstamps. The Sacramento republican website had a caricature of Obama wearing a turban, until they were asked to remove it. they left no apology behind, no disclaimer, no "Sorry guys we lied to you, Obama has NOTHING to do with Osama." Nope.

Now, being so partisian and so engulfed in anger and so scared of what this country could become under leadership like this, I may have not heard Obama make some sort of smear against McCain's name, or race, or class. If I have, please correct me.

If your reason for being turned off by the election is because of rancourous arguments, get your ass off this forum and go read both candidate's websites. If you are going to make your decision based on the number and quality of which side has said the worst about the other, then please take a look at whom, on which side, has said it. Racism? No kidding! Did you know Obama's mother is white? Hardly anyone seems to. If his mother were Jewish, he'd be a Jew in all the media, everywhere.

That and hearing Obama say "redistribute the wealth" sent a shiver down my spine. I don't think he is a socialist or a communist, but if he says "peace land and bread" I am expatriating so fast it will make the embassy spin.

Because anyone who talks about lowering taxes for the middle class is just dying to say 'peace land and bread,' it goes without saying.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Because anyone who talks about lowering taxes for the middle class is just dying to say 'peace land and bread,' it goes without saying.

No.... but I have heard too many first hand accounts of where "redistribute the wealth" leads. Those words scare me. I'm solidly middle class, even lower middle class, and I'd rather pay more taxes but have a smarter, smaller, more efficient government.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No.... but I have heard too many first hand accounts of where "redistribute the wealth" leads. Those words scare me. I'm solidly middle class, even lower middle class, and I'd rather pay more taxes but have a smarter, smaller, more efficient government.

Do you figure McCain will give you that? Because I figure he'll assemble a cabinet with the same care he's given to his VP choice.

I think the important thing in that phrase is the "re" in "redistribute." We've suffered the most blatant "distribution" scheme in these past years. Right this minute I'm seeing more of my taxes being distributed into the pockets of bank CEOs.

 

[Carnevil9]

I'm undecided, and I'll tell you why. I find McCain only slightly less nauseating than Obama. If, on election day, the polls show my state a toss-up, I'll vote for McCain. If, on election day, the polls show it a fait acompli, one way or the other, I'll vote for Bob Barr. So I can't decide until the last minute.....Carney

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA?

I pay taxes, so I get to complain.

Most of my teeth and a bit of my blood remained behind in Vietnam....so I get to complain.

Fucking doesnt make you a man and voting for losers doesnt make you a better citizen.

I view my decision as my right NOT to endorse the herd's silliness. You guys fucked up BIG TIME when you picked Obama & McCain.

McCain & Obama are jokes who will hurt this nation.

You can always write my name on your ballot. I'm the Fascist candidate. I plan to hang every swinging dick employed on Wall Street, then hang the lawyers.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So you're gonna rest on your laurels and fling monkey poo. And Fascism is what you fought and bled for.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STELLA

I'm not voting for Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum is what I'm gonna do. Theyre both clueless world-savers and do-gooders....and narcissists.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Do you figure McCain will give you that? Because I figure he'll assemble a cabinet with the same care he's given to his VP choice.

I think the important thing in that phrase is the "re" in "redistribute." We've suffered the most blatant "distribution" scheme in these past years. Right this minute I'm seeing more of my taxes being distributed into the pockets of bank CEOs.

No I am certain McCain won't give us a smaller smarter more efficient government. Between his history with the Keating Five, and his voting record I can't in good conscience vote for him.

But I don't see Obama providing it either. He may lower my taxes, I may even get back more of a refund than I pay. But I don't see any of his policies changing my life for the better. After reading his website, watching the debates, researching to the best of my abilities, I don't see him taking the stands I can support. When he says "I'll make marriage a national issue, gay and straight" because it already is but I want a candidate who will step up and say it point blank. If he would say "We are rebuilding the health care system from the ground up, not patching a broken and discouraging system" or the same for education. I want him to say that social security and welfare are hopelessly twisted, having served their purpose but need to be reworked.

Having only two choices, I'll most likely vote Obama, as the lesser of two evils. But if there are any names on the ballots that are lesser still, even though I know they most likely won't win, I will vote my conscience.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Remember what happened to the last president who said that-- The Republican House Leader pointed a loaded Ken Starr at him.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Remember what happened to the last president who said that-- The Republican House Leader pointed a loaded Ken Starr at him.

That still pisses me off.

I even tried to kick Newt Gingrich in the ass at a local event but couldn't get close enough so I flipped him off instead.