UK, undemocratic if you live in Scotland

[Exescort]

Comments were made by leading figures in the SNP to the effect that the referendum was a special opportunity for the people of Scotland. In describing how special this opportunity was, the words ‘once in a lifetime’ or similar were used. At no time was it suggested that this was a unique or unrepeatable event. It was simply a case of politicians deploying a common figure of speech in order to emphasis the importance of the vote.

And even if there had been an assurance from Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon that the referendum was to be a one-off, that assurance would have been meaningless. Because neither they nor anyone else has the authority in relation to an inalienable right. Even as Scotland’s democratically elected leaders, neither was entitled to place any conditions or constraints on Scotland’s right of self-determination. How much less right, therefore, does the unelected British Prime Minister have to forbid the exercise of Scotland’s right of self-determination?

Similarly, nobody voted in the first referendum to relinquish their right of self-determination. The argument that the people of Scotland made a choice and must abide by it for all time and in all circumstances displays an ignorance of democracy even more profound than the failure to grasp the concept of self-determination. The whole point of an inalienable right is that it can no more be forfeited than it can be removed. Nobody can lawfully renounce the right of self-determination any more than than they can lawfully vote themselves into a condition of slavery.

 

[jayjay04]

Nicola Sturgeon makes me laugh.
I have no issue is the Scots wanting to leave. I would prefer them to stay but ultimately it is their choice.

But there appears to only be her banging on about it.

 

[DeYaKen]

Scotland has a population of approximately 5,000,000 and has 59 MPs making average constituency of 85,000. the rest of Britain has a population of approximately 60,000,000 and is represented by 591 MPs making an average constituency of 101,000. Scotland is over-represented in Westminster so No it is not democratic.

 

[oggbashan]

Apart from the compulsory budget bill, the Scottish Parliament has passed NO legislation for 12 months.

Is that a good omen for independence?

Under the Barnett Formula Scotland gets more government money per head of population than England. If Scotland was independent, that would stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_formula

Full Fiscal Autonomy (Devo-Max) that means Scotland retains all revenue raised in Scotland and gets nothing from Westminster seems to leave Scotland much worse off - or maybe not - depending on whose figures you believe. The real answer is 'nobody knows but probably less money for Scotland'. Independence would be even more uncertain.

Is that a good omen for independence?

The EU has said that if Scotland were independent they would not automatically accept Scotland as a member state. Scotland would have to join the queue and wait...

Is that a good omen for independence?

Like Brexit, independence for Scotland would be a leap into the unknown.

Unlike Brexit where the UK currently pays substantial sums to the EU, an independent Scotland would lose the substantial sums currently paid by the UK.

 

[Exescort]

I think I'll beg to differ with you all.
We're all entitled to our opinions.
But, did anybody on here or anybody in the UK vote for T May as prime minister?
No, none of us.
Seriously, democratic, the UK?

 

[Exescort]

Nicola Sturgeon makes me laugh.
I have no issue is the Scots wanting to leave. I would prefer them to stay but ultimately it is their choice.

But there appears to only be her banging on about it.

That's an illusion created by the BBC and Daily Mail

 

[oggbashan]

I think I'll beg to differ with you all.
We're all entitled to our opinions.
But, did anybody on here or anybody in the UK vote for T May as prime minister?
No, none of us.
Seriously, democratic, the UK?

No one except Conservative Members of Parliament vote for a Conservative Prime Minister.

There was no election in Scotland for Nicola Sturgeon as Scottish First Minister either. She was the ONLY nomination for Leader at the SNP Conference so there was NO VOTE. She was appointed First Minister by the SNP.

Democratic? Bullshit!

 

[Wrong Element]

I assume there's a middle ground between "you had your one vote and you're never getting another" and holding another independence vote just three years after the previous one.

 

[phrodeau]

I assume there's a middle ground between "you had your one vote and you're never getting another" and holding another independence vote just three years after the previous one.

I've heard that in the case of the Brexit vote, they've since changed the rules to make a do-over very hard.

 

[Exescort]

I just find it amazing that an unelected prime minister thinks they know better than a country's population.
I'd say she's close to being a dictator to keep the London city spivs happy. Great if you've got money, not so great for the poor and underprivileged.

 

[oggbashan]

I just find it amazing that an unelected first minister thinks they know better than a country's population.
I'd say she's close to being a dictator to keep the Scotland's spivs happy. Great if you've got money, not so great for the poor and underprivileged.

Corrected your post.

 

[Exescort]

Clever boy

 

[suckonsimon]

I just find it amazing that an unelected prime minister thinks they know better than a country's population.
I'd say she's close to being a dictator to keep the London city spivs happy. Great if you've got money, not so great for the poor and underprivileged.

Hey, I don't vote Conservative, but I totally accept that Theresa May is Prime Minister by democratic process. Her party won the right to govern at the last General Election; there was a leadership resignation for sound and honourable reasons; Elected Members of Parliament of the majority parliamentary party chose a successor in a manner wide open to public scrutiny. She stepped up to the task and saved us all the yet more dilly dallying there would have been if an early General Election had been called, just when we needed that like a hole in the head.

... and I'm a Scot!

 

[jayjay04]

I do not read the Daily Fail or the BBC. I am not really bothered about politics, I did vote to leave though.

Teresa May is just doing what the people voted for. Its not her fault Cameron called a vote and then resigned when it did not go his way. She had a responsibility to do what the people voted for - if she had gone back on that, it would have been career suicide and the Conservatives would have been out a tthe next election.

As far as votes go, this was the fairest of them all - everyone had an equal vote, unlike an election. I was not overly bothered by the outcome, I am happy it has been actioned, but I would have quite happily have accepted a remain vote.

 

[dan_c00000]

Teresa May is just doing what the people voted for. Its not her fault Cameron called a vote and then resigned when it did not go his way.

Cameron, Farage, and Johnson couldn't run away from the leave vote fast enough. It makes them look terrible (in Johnson's case super terrible) that they couldn't even stick around for five minutes after the vote, and in Johnson's case, actively turn down jobs after the vote.

 

[DeYaKen]

You've got to laugh, though, haven't you? When Mother Theresa was in opposition she constantly berated Gordon Brown telling him that he wasn't elected as PM and so had no mandate.
Now she is in power and she says that she has a mandate because the British system allows her to be appointed by her party. Nothing hypocritical there is there?

 

[magicalmoments]

I think I'll beg to differ with you all.
We're all entitled to our opinions.
But, did anybody on here or anybody in the UK vote for T May as prime minister?
No, none of us.
Seriously, democratic, the UK?

The prime minister is selected by the majority party in parliament. The public never get to vote for the position. Anyone who does use their vote on the basis of who will be prime minister seriously needs to lose the privilege.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Sounds like some one wishes they lived in a republic. You vote for the party not the PM. That can change at any time. Scandal, illness, death, loss of party confidence. Technically you're not voting for a head of state although a Westminster style government PM has powers that the POTUS wishes he had.

You vote for the party. Vote for the PM and the party will just stick a likeable photogenic type in as leader regardless of capability just to get more votes.

Not really up on the workings of the United Kingdom but not passing any legislation sounds off to me. Does Westminster have that much control over Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland? What powers of legislation are delegated to the individual countries?

Here in Canada we have some Quebec separatists who would try for an independence referendum annually if they could. They lost the last one by the tiniest of margins! Can't imagine the scuffle if they managed to win one!

 

[Exescort]

You've got to laugh, though, haven't you? When Mother Theresa was in opposition she constantly berated Gordon Brown telling him that he wasn't elected as PM and so had no mandate.
Now she is in power and she says that she has a mandate because the British system allows her to be appointed by her party. Nothing hypocritical there is there?

Here's someone who thought about what I was saying, instead of just jumping in for an argument

 

[Exescort]

Sounds like some one wishes they lived in a republic. You vote for the party not the PM. That can change at any time. Scandal, illness, death, loss of party confidence. Technically you're not voting for a head of state although a Westminster style government PM has powers that the POTUS wishes he had.

You vote for the party. Vote for the PM and the party will just stick a likeable photogenic type in as leader regardless of capability just to get more votes.

Not really up on the workings of the United Kingdom but not passing any legislation sounds off to me. Does Westminster have that much control over Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland? What powers of legislation are delegated to the individual countries?

Here in Canada we have some Quebec separatists who would try for an independence referendum annually if they could. They lost the last one by the tiniest of margins! Can't imagine the scuffle if they managed to win one!

That's pretty much the UK but not quite as bad. We are one England, make no mistake. There's no UK, Great Britain or anything even close now the dictator May has sneakily snatched power from the grasp off Cameron's Old Boy network.
She campaigned remain in the EU now leads us out. Turncoat or what?
Never ever trust a politician of any party, their like hot guys. They look fun but their so disappointing

 

[Hard_Rom]

That's pretty much the UK but not quite as bad. We are one England, make no mistake. There's no UK, Great Britain or anything even close now the dictator May has sneakily snatched power from the grasp off Cameron's Old Boy network.
She campaigned remain in the EU now leads us out. Turncoat or what?
Never ever trust a politician of any party, their like hot guys. They look fun but their so disappointing

I guess there are UK conspiracy nut bars too. You should move to the US you would fit right in.

 

[jayjay04]

That's pretty much the UK but not quite as bad. We are one England, make no mistake. There's no UK, Great Britain or anything even close now the dictator May has sneakily snatched power from the grasp off Cameron's Old Boy network.
She campaigned remain in the EU now leads us out. Turncoat or what?
Never ever trust a politician of any party, their like hot guys. They look fun but their so disappointing

That post is a contradiction.
On the one hand we have a dictator.

now the dictator May has sneakily snatched power

And on the other hand we have a leader doing what was voted for by the people despite it being against her preference...

She campaigned remain in the EU now leads us out.

 

[Exescort]

A contradiction in print only.
Nothing there except truth

 

[Hard_Rom]

A contradiction in print only.
Nothing there except truth

Nothing there but conspiracy nutters ravings!

 

[jayjay04]

A contradiction in print only.
Nothing there except truth

How can something be a contradiction in print only? It either is or is not.

Im with Hard_Rom...tin foil hat time I think.

You remind me of my uncle the conservatives could cure cancer or world hunger and there would still be a negative spin on it. Labour have done plenty of bad in their time.