UK Elections! Minute by minute

[TheEarl]

Or probably hour by hour.

I'm staying up till about 4am, because it appears that the Conservatives actually may have done a hell of a lot better than I, or anyone, expected. This election may actually be a battlefield.

For those not in the know, the UK elections are basically fought between three parties: Labour who are in power, Conservatives (Tories) who are the main opposition, and the Liberal Democrats (Lib Dems) who are the third party. There is no electoral college system as in America - it is all about the seats in Parliament; each seat is worth the same and whoever has the most seats wins.

According to the exit polls, Labour (and therefore Teflon Tony's) advantage in Parliament has dropped from 160 seats to 66 seats. That is a hell of a swing away from the ruling government and, given a slightly bigger swing than the exit polls suggest, might end up in a hung parliament.

A hung parliament is where no party has a majority and therefore a coalition must be formed. The likelihood is that Labour and the Lib Dems would form a coalition with Tony Blair as leader. However, in that situation, there would be no doubt that nothing at all would get done due to dissent within the parties and within a year and a half another election would be called, in which, it would be hoped, the Tories would walk it.

I shall keep the board updated.

The Earl

 

[neonlyte]

Good on ya Earl!

I think you are being a trifle optimistic but at least you're not sitting on the fence.

I've been a Lib Dem supporter for years but voted for the Labour candidate in my constituency - used to be Peter Lilley's (Tory) patch until the boundaries were redrawn and that is part of the overall problem, current constituency boundaries are highly advantageous to Labour.

I don't see any huge change in fundamental Tory attitudes that would persuade me to support them in the immediate future.

 

[matriarch]

............. in which, it would be hoped, the Tories would walk it.

The Earl

Not getting into any debates on politics, but please don't assume we all have the same hopes about who should lead this country, please love.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I'm woefully ignorant about British politics, and would love to ask some questions if I may.

Does Parliament approve expenditures, such as funds to pay for supporting the war in Iraq? If so, with a hung Parliament, would it be unlikely that any additional funds would be approved or would Blair still be able to keep the Brits in it?

Does Parliament elect a PM, or is that done by the voters?

Who calls for new elections? Don't you have a regularly scheduled election system?

 

[kendo1]

Not getting into any debates on politics, but please don't assume we all have the same hopes about who should lead this country, please love.

Very true.
We've had good and bad PM's on both sides of the fence.

 

[TheEarl]

Fair enough Mat, although my personal opinion is that Labour shouldn't be allowed back in until they have learned to serve the people, rather than try and force the people to serve them.

JOI: Who do you support?

I'm woefully ignorant about British politics, and would love to ask some questions if I may.

Does Parliament approve expenditures, such as funds to pay for supporting the war in Iraq? If so, with a hung Parliament, would it be unlikely that any additional funds would be approved or would Blair still be able to keep the Brits in it?

Does Parliament elect a PM, or is that done by the voters?

Who calls for new elections? Don't you have a regularly scheduled election system?

TheBritish involvement in Iraq would continue in a hung Parliament, as any Labour/Lib dem coalition would consist of a large part of Labour, who are in favour of the war and I don't believe the Lib Dems would damage their position in a coalition by making a ruckus over it.

The PM is the leader of the ruling party and each ruler is elected by the members of that party in a ballot. The public don't choose the PM per se, they just choose the party in power. Unfortunately this election has been very presidential, focussing on the individual, rather than the party, which is not very British politics. I hope that will change.

There is no regularly scheduled election process. The election is called when the Prime Minister approaches the Queen to ask her to dissolve Parliament. After she has dissolved Parliament, no more decisions or rules can be made and campaigning begins in earnest. A term lasts 4 or 5 years (depending on the term of the government. I don't understand this well myself), but can be called at any point in the PM's term. Unlike hte USA, there is no maximum number of terms; this, presuming he returns (which is a fair assumption) will be Teflon Tony's 3rd term.

The Earl

 

[LadyJeanne]

Thanks, Earl.

What are the big election issues this year? Economy? Iraq? Immigration?

 

[neonlyte]

The PM is the leader of the ruling party and each ruler is elected by the members of that party in a ballot. The public don't choose the PM per se, they just choose the party in power. Unfortunately this election has been very presidential, focussing on the individual, rather than the party, which is not very British politics. I hope that will change.

There is no regularly scheduled election process. The election is called when the Prime Minister approaches the Queen to ask her to dissolve Parliament. After she has dissolved Parliament, no more decisions or rules can be made and campaigning begins in earnest. A term lasts 4 or 5 years (depending on the term of the government. I don't understand this well myself), but can be called at any point in the PM's term. Unlike hte USA, there is no maximum number of terms; this, presuming he returns (which is a fair assumption) will be Teflon Tony's 3rd term.

The Earl

I believe the maximum length a government can serve is five years, usually the election has occured after the fourth year on the ruling party requesting the Queen to dissolve parliament. An election is automatic if the ruling party loses a Vote of Confidence in the parliament.

The Prime Minister in a majority Labour parliament is elected by the Labour MP's. The Prime Minister in a majority Conservative parliament is elected by Conservative MP's and a collegiate of constituency leaders, but is elected as the leader of the opposition by the elected MP's when the party is the minority party.

I think that is correct - but I'm happy to be corrected

 

[TheEarl]

Thanks, Earl.

What are the big election issues this year? Economy? Iraq? Immigration?

The major election issues this year are trust, which is what I meant by it being a very presendential election. Tony Blair is widely distrusted in the UK as it is fairly well assumed that he lied to take us into Iraq and would lie again if he thought it to be best. However, his main opponent, Michael Howard, is associated with the Tory government that held sway in the 80s and early 90s under Thatcher and John Major. This government was highly unpopular and the Tories still carry a stigma from that.

This is why I'm vexed by a lot of decisions from the electorate. They disagree with both Labour and Tony Blair and yet won't vote Tory because of things that happened 10 years ago. However, I'm fairly drubnk now, so I'm more mellow.

The Earl

 

[Guest]

Or probably hour by hour.

I'm staying up till about 4am, because it appears that the Conservatives actually may have done a hell of a lot better than I, or anyone, expected. This election may actually be a battlefield.

For those not in the know, the UK elections are basically fought between three parties: Labour who are in power, Conservatives (Tories) who are the main opposition, and the Liberal Democrats (Lib Dems) who are the third party. There is no electoral college system as in America - it is all about the seats in Parliament; each seat is worth the same and whoever has the most seats wins.

According to the exit polls, Labour (and therefore Teflon Tony's) advantage in Parliament has dropped from 160 seats to 66 seats. That is a hell of a swing away from the ruling government and, given a slightly bigger swing than the exit polls suggest, might end up in a hung parliament.

A hung parliament is where no party has a majority and therefore a coalition must be formed. The likelihood is that Labour and the Lib Dems would form a coalition with Tony Blair as leader. However, in that situation, there would be no doubt that nothing at all would get done due to dissent within the parties and within a year and a half another election would be called, in which, it would be hoped, the Tories would walk it.

I shall keep the board updated.

The Earl

Maggie's third term only had a majority of 44.

We are still paying for that third term now.

Don't get me started on the Tories and their "holier than thou" attitude. "I'm alright, Jack, fuck the rest of you". "Survival of the fittest". "Shove any man down, to give yourself a leg up".

Why the hell do they think discipline in schools is so bad now? Yep, the kids of the Thatcher GREED generation.

Hmmm, I wonder why the economy is so strong right now after two terms of a Labour Government? 15% interest rates are a thing of the past, as is the boom/bust cycle of the economy, as are the repossessions and failing businesses.

I didn't go to University after my A levels, as a direct result of Tory policy in the late 80's/early 90's. My Dad is still trying to pick himself up now. Bitter, me? Never! Long fucking memory? Too damn right!

Under Labour, I am going back to University. We are a middle income family, and I count myself as very lucky indeed that we can afford for me to do that. I'm going to train to be a teacher, because I want to do something worthwhile, which (I hope) will have a positive impact on the next generation. My girls are doing very well at school, and, shock, horror! All of that under a Labour Government. Who'da thunk it?

And, don't give me that whinge about not looking back ten years, but looking forward. What was the Tory's main lynch pin tactic of the 1987 election? Yep, taking the electorate back and telling them to think long and hard about the Union led Labour Governments of the 1970's. Oh, and you can't trust a ginger Welsh bloke.

They don't change.

Anyway, what do I know about politics? (I only have an A level in the subject, and had a wonderful teacher, who dissected the parties piece by piece). I voted Lib Dem, cos Charles Kennedy's just had a baby.

Lou

 

[R. Richard]

I have studied the matter of the British government at some length. The inescapable conclusion is that there is only one man for the job. That man is Oliver Cromwell.

JMHO.

 

[Guest]

I have studied the matter of the British government at some length. The inescapable conclusion is that there is only one man for the job. That man is Oliver Cromwell.

JMHO.

Nah, that bloke banned booze, he wouldn't get my vote.

 

[TheEarl]

Maggie's third term only had a majority of 44.

We are still paying for that third term now.

Don't get me started on the Tories and their "holier than thou" attitude. "I'm alright, Jack, fuck the rest of you". "Survival of the fittest". "Shove any man down, to give yourself a leg up".

Why the hell do they think discipline in schools is so bad now? Yep, the kids of the Thatcher GREED generation.

Hmmm, I wonder why the economy is so strong right now after two terms of a Labour Government? 15% interest rates are a thing of the past, as is the boom/bust cycle of the economy, as are the repossessions and failing businesses.

I didn't go to University after my A levels, as a direct result of Tory policy in the late 80's/early 90's. My Dad is still trying to pick himself up now. Bitter, me? Never! Long fucking memory? Too damn right!

Under Labour, I am going back to University. We are a middle income family, and I count myself as very lucky indeed that we can afford for me to do that. I'm going to train to be a teacher, because I want to do something worthwhile, which (I hope) will have a positive impact on the next generation. My girls are doing very well at school, and, shock, horror! All of that under a Labour Government. Who'da thunk it?

And, don't give me that whinge about not looking back ten years, but looking forward. What was the Tory's main lynch pin tactic of the 1987 election? Yep, taking the electorate back and telling them to think long and hard about the Union led Labour Governments of the 1970's. Oh, and you can't trust a ginger Welsh bloke.

They don't change.

Anyway, what do I know about politics? (I only have an A level in the subject, and had a wonderful teacher, who dissected the parties piece by piece). I voted Lib Dem, cos Charles Kennedy's just had a baby.

Lou

True, but the Tory policies of the 90s were a result of being far too secure in their right to govern and doing whatever the hell they wanted (a position Labour are in atm). After being thoroughly spanked in the last two elections, I believe the Tories have changed and certainly trust more in their definitive timetable than the Labour promises from a proven liar.

But anyway, this isn't a US election thread. Not a place for arguments.

The overall percentage of resutls leaves Labour firmly ahead on sheer numbers. However, the first constituencies to declare are all Labour strongholds in the North and Scotland. The interesting results are in Putney (a Labour loss to the Conservatives) and a couple of others where the Tories have picked up odd seats that they're not expected to get. It's interesting that, although the opinion polls predicted a comfortable Labour victory, the actual voting so far is pointing towards a very tight fight. Lib Dems haven't gained any new seats but have held onto a few and must consider themselves in a strong position to gain places like Cambridge with the swing away from the ruling Labour party.

The Earl

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Tis interesting indeed to se you guys having a political argument

 

[rgraham666]

You should see Canadian forums during an election.

I had to leave one of my favourites as I had proven myself a servant of Satan, and even a "hello" garnered me 20 lines of flaming.

It got sooo tiresome.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Richard
I have studied the matter of the British government at some length. The inescapable conclusion is that there is only one man for the job. That man is Oliver Cromwell.

JMHO

Nah, that bloke banned booze, he wouldn't get my vote.

From what I have read about him and his Puritans, he was also opposed to sex, except for the missionary position, at night, in a dark room, with both participants blindfolded and wearing gloves, and only during her most fertile time, and never if she was already pregnant. There was neither a king nor a PM during Cromwell's time, just him as dictator. I rank him along with Hitler and Stalin as being some of the most evil persons in history.

 

[minsue]

Blair's Labour Party Wins Re-Election

By ROBERT BARR, Associated Press Writer 18 minutes ago

Tony Blair won a historic third term as prime minister Thursday, but exit poll projections indicated his Labour Party suffered a sharply reduced parliamentary majority in punishment for going to war in Iraq. A chastened Blair said "we will have to respond to that sensibly and wisely and responsibly."

The outcome could set the stage for Blair to be replaced in midterm by a party rival such as Gordon Brown. As Treasury chief, Brown was widely credited for the strong economy that appears to have clinched Labour's victory, outweighing the bitterness many voters said they felt over Iraq.

With 570 of the 646 House of Commons seats counted, official results showed 337 seats won by Labour, enough to form a government, 167 went to the Conservatives, 54 went to the Liberal Democrats — the only major party to oppose the Iraq war — and 12 to other smaller parties.

The BBC projected Labour would win 79 more seats than all the other parties combined — down from its 161-seat margin in the outgoing House of Commons.

The projections, based on a survey of more than 16,000 voters in 115 closely contested districts, showed Labour with 37 percent of the popular vote, the lowest winning share ever. The Conservatives were projected to take 33 percent. The Liberal Democrats were estimated in third place with 22 percent.

Conservative opposition leader Michael Howard offered the prime minister his congratulations but said Blair had to do more to deliver better health care and lower crime for Britons.

"The time has now come for action and not talk from him," Howard said.

A big part of the Conservative strategy was to make it a referendum on Blair, urging voters to "wipe the smirk" off his face. Although Howard supported the Iraq war, he attacked Blair during the campaign, accusing the prime minister of lying about intelligence and the legality of the invasion and lacking a plan to win the peace.

Blair acknowledged early Friday that Britons had punished his 8-year-old government.

"I know too that Iraq has been a divisive issue in this country but I hope now that we can unite again and look to the future there and here," said Blair, as he was comfortably returned to his parliamentary seat in Sedgefield, northern England, despite a challenge from the father of a British soldier killed in the Iraq war.

"It seems as if it is clear ... that the British people wanted the return of a Labour government but with a reduced majority," Blair said. "And we will have to respond to that sensibly and wisely and responsibly."

Never before has the Labour Party won three straight elections. Margaret Thatcher accomplished the same feat for the Conservatives, the only other prime minister in modern British history to do so.

But with a much smaller majority, Blair could face difficulties controlling a faction of his party deeply disillusioned with his leadership, especially over Iraq. He has already said this will be his last term.

"One of the conclusions of this is that he (Blair) certainly does not have a mandate to launch another war along with George Bush," said Robin Cook, who resigned from Blair's Cabinet in protest to the war.

Clare Short, who also quit Blair's Cabinet over the war, said Blair had proved a liability.

"I think everyone agrees we would have done better with a different leader," Short said.

Former Conservative Defense Secretary Michael Portillo said the projected outcome could prove perilous for Blair.

"On these results I would have thought ... the Brown supporters will be wondering how quickly they can move Tony Blair out of Downing Street," he said.

Brown called the predicted Labour victory "historic" but said it was too early to say what the majority would be.

"This is the work that drives us on. This is the vision that gives enduring purpose to what we do. This is the task our party wants to take forward starting from this morning," Brown said after winning a seat in his constituency.

While Blair apparently was diminished in victory, Howard gained stature as his party lost a third straight election but at least showed some signs of life. Howard said the national outcome marked a big step forward for the Conservatives, who lost landslides to Blair in the past two elections, in 1997 and 2001.

In a measure of the British public's feelings about Blair's decision to join the U.S.-led coalition, a fiercely anti-war lawmaker expelled from the Labour Party won re-election to Parliament as an independent Friday, saying in an angry acceptance speech, "Mr. Blair, this is for Iraq."

George Galloway, a veteran legislator kicked out of the party after he urged British soldiers not to fight in Iraq, defeated Blair loyalist Oona King in an east London district. He ran as a representative of the Respect party, which he founded to oppose the Iraq war.

But Blair benefited from the Conservatives' even greater unpopularity and a perception that the opposition is less capable of handling the economy.

And the government's strong economic record — Britain's growth is high and unemployment low compared to much of the rest of the European Union — appears to have outweighed the resentments over Iraq. Labour is also credited with improving public services such as health and education through investment.

Still, the projected victory for Labour on Thursday stood in stark contrast to Blair's big victories in 1997 and 2001.

Blair's government only narrowly defeated Labour revolts in the last parliament, including the crucial vote to go to war in Iraq and legislation to introduce tuition fees for university students, allow more private funding for state-run hospitals and toughen anti-terrorism laws.

Other governments have coped with smaller majorities. Thatcher won with a majority of 43 in 1979. Her successor, John Major, struggled along with a majority of 21, which shrank toward zero at the end of his five-year term in 1997.

A politically weakened Blair would find it difficult to persuade British voters to approve a proposed constitution for the European Union — which requires ratification by all member states.

During the campaign, the left-leaning Guardian newspaper offered free clothespins to any reader who requested one after a columnist urged reluctant Labour supporters to put aside opposition to the Iraq war and back the party for its domestic policies.

Iraq loomed large in voters' thinking.

"Iraq has been a big thing — trust," said Nicola Wyndham, 33, who voted for Labour four years ago but switched to the Liberal Democrats this time. "He (Blair) has had eight years to make an impact and he really hasn't. There are still problems with health, education and crime."

"I've turned from Labour to Liberal Democrat because I don't really believe what Labour are saying," said Marguerite Hoy, 64, a voter in Braintree, northeast of London.

Democratic Party volunteers from the United States joined Blair's campaign. Bush's Republican White House has kept the Conservatives at arms length in deference to his alliance with Blair.

In New York, two small makeshift grenades exploded early Thursday outside a building housing the British Consulate. The blast caused minor damage and no injuries.

 

[TheEarl]

Okay, I fell asleep in the armchair whilst watching the election. <sheepish> Thus endeth the Lit coverage!

The Earl

 

[rgraham666]

You Brits are going to have to be really careful now.

Canada's last two Prime Ministers had three term majorities. And each of them fucked up royally.

Not so much running the country mind, but there was a lot of corruption in their last terms.

There's plenty to read about the latest one here.

 

[oggbashan]

Locally, that is Canterbury City Council, we had a by-election for a City Council. Until two weeks ago the Council was run by a Lib Dem/Labour coalition on the casting vote of the Lord Mayor i.e. the coalition and the Conservatives had equal numbers of seats and the Lord Mayor has TWO votes.

A Conservative Councillor had to resign because his work is now based in France. Yesterday his seat was contested in the by-election. If the Conservatives had retained the seat the position would have been as before BUT a Liberal Democrat Councillor defected to the Conservatives because her party wasn't listening to the community. So now the by-election became vital.

If the Conservatives retained the seat they would be the largest party and would take control of Canterbury City Council. If they lost to Labour or Liberal Democrat their current rule would continue - on the lowest possible majority until the next Mayoral election on 11 May. The likely outcome on 11 May would be that the current Lord Mayor would use his second vote to elect his successor.

The campaigning for the Council by-election was fierce because control of the Council was at stake. The crucial decision was made by the Liberal Democrats and Labour Parties. They couldn't agree on a single candidate and therefore there were candidates for both parties.

The turnout was very high at 67.47%. The votes were:

Conservative 1177
Liberal Democrat 992
Labour 754
UK Independence 205

The Conservative was elected and control of the Council will change on 11 May.

The issue on which the Liberal Democrat Councillor changed sides and the issue on which this election was fought - Charging for parking cars on our seafront. The Liberal Democrats and Labour Councillors wouldn't listen to the town who told them loud and clear that it wouldn't help the town's traders to survive against out-of-town supermarkets. Who kept telling those Councillors on behalf of the town? Seven separate speeches at Council meetings over 18 months.

Og.

Who is now very unpopular with Liberal Democrats and Labour?

Og.

Who is very popular with Conservatives?

Og.

Who is popular with the town's traders?

Og.

Will anyone say 'Thank you'?

No.

Sometimes you can win when fighting City Hall. Don't expect to be popular for long.

However, what ever the colour of the Council, who expects to be fighting the same battle next year?

Og. Chairman of Residents' Association and Vice-President of Chamber of Commerce.

PS. Now I need to re-start the battle to keep the public toilets open. I lost that battle 5 years ago. With a new council I might get somewhere...

 

[NoJo]

The Tories lost the public's trust when they were in power, through a series of corruption scandals. It's very hard in an insular place like Britain, to lose the public's trust by fighting a war in Iraq, howver unjust. The results were pretty much what I and most people expected.

This was the first time I've voted against Labour since I began voting nearly thirty years ago. My constituency switched from Labour to Liberal Democrat, in spite of our MP being pretty good on the whole (but a bit of a Blairite toady).

One party, the "Respect" party, run by an ex left-wing Labour MP, won an inner london seat wth a largely Muslim population, on a predominantly anti-Iraq ticket. I predict that the Respect Party, along with the British National (Nazi) Party will gain more votes in the future, as the three main parties continue to huddle into the political centre, becoming almost indistingishable from each other.

 

[TheEarl]

IK'd like to say that my enjoyment of elecytion night was thoroughly enhanced by giving the finger to the television every time a piece of racist scum from the BNP appeared on there. Very glad to learn that nearly all of theml lost their deposits!

The Earl

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . . my enjoyment of elecytion night was thoroughly enhanced by giving the finger to the television every time a piece of racist scum from the BNP appeared on there. Very glad to learn that nearly all of theml lost their deposits!. . .

Did you check out the British National Party's online message, entitled, Mission Accomplished?

They seem to be saying that they did just SWELL!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

What do you guys think of this electoral system? I was looking at the results, and noticed it is a system that favours absolute majorities tremendously. Nor nearly as much as the American system, but it's still pretty weird...

Votes:
37% Labour
33% Conservatives
22% Liberal Democrats
8% Others

Seats:
57% Labour
31% Conservatives
9% Liberal Democrats
2% Others

 

[rgraham666]

True Lauren.

One of the bigger problems is gerrymandering. The ruling party often redraws the seat boundaries to favour themselves.

All systems of representation have problems.

The two biggest these days are money and apathy.