uh oh, this could be a writerly type thread...

[jomar]

Hi folks, if you've stumbled across any of my stories, you know they're mostly strokers with a glimmer of the characters' personality peeking through, maybe.

I find myself in the middle of a longer story that, to my surprise, actually has a plot and a cast of characters. It's not that complicated compared to some here, but does present a different challenge keeping track of everybody and what's going on. So how do you all do it? Notes and such? Do you sketch out personality in a few words so you can be consistent?

Since writing a story this type and length is new for me (maybe 6 or 7 chapters, 18-20,000 or so words) I thought it might be helpful looking up story writing suggestions. The things I googled discussed the structure of the story in terms of the ups and downs of the "hero." One was a twelve step process; another (low tech) suggested opening a manilla folder, write a big W and list the hi's and low's along the letter's "legs" where the plot points will occur.

So, I know the minimum about writing a story. Many of you have a lot of knowledge and experience and I'm interested in hearing your thoughts. Do you outline your stories? Is there a standard plot arc (I've heard "chase a man up a tree, shake the tree, get the man down from tree tree"). I know tension is needed, but are there rules? Or do you have a very rough thought, start writing and let it evolve and go back and edit/fill as needed?

If these questions have been addressed in a different thread and you don't want to rehash it let me know (I couldn't find it).

 

[rgraham666]

Hmm. Never really had that problem.

I hash my stories out in my head until I'm at the point where I consider asking them to pay their share of the rent.

So I know the story and the characters pretty well.

 

[jomar]

Hmm. Never really had that problem.

I hash my stories out in my head until I'm at the point where I consider asking them to pay their share of the rent.

So I know the story and the characters pretty well.

Maybe that's my problem. I don't have it all worked out. It's still evolving as I write.

How many characters do you juggle in your published works?

 

[rgraham666]

Maybe that's my problem. I don't have it all worked out. It's still evolving as I write.

How many characters do you juggle in your published works?

Mine are usually pretty simple. I most often just have a hero and a heroine. I might throw a few secondary characters in for conflict. In some works I might have a protagonist.

So, between two to five characters.

 

[jomar]

Mine are usually pretty simple. I most often just have a hero and a heroine. I might throw a few secondary characters in for conflict. In some works I might have a protagonist.

So, between two to five characters.

Makes sense. Mine definitely has a protagonist, then about four or five more important characters, then some periphery ones. I hope I can flesh them out adequately.

Thanks, Rob.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I tend to start off with an idea and like RG, let it run around in my head for a while before starting to write.

Even once I start writing I'm constantly making changes along the way which require going back and making minor alteration to plot and characters.

In my current endevour, a novel if it ever gets done, I've gone back and made hundreds of changes to old pasages becaues as the story is evolving I find I want to take it in another direction than I originally intended. Same with the characters. Often times after introducing a character I intended to be minor I find that I like them or they fit in well so I flesh out that character more. Oftentimes that means going back and changing details. The trick is to make sure you change all refrences to said detail along the way.

 

[cloudy]

I tend to start off with an idea and like RG, let it run around in my head for a while before starting to write.

Yep, me too.

I don't even start to write until the story is pretty much set in my mind.

 

[jomar]

I tend to start off with an idea and like RG, let it run around in my head for a while before starting to write.

Even once I start writing I'm constantly making changes along the way which require going back and making minor alteration to plot and characters.

In my current endevour, a novel if it ever gets done, I've gone back and made hundreds of changes to old pasages becaues as the story is evolving I find I want to take it in another direction than I originally intended. Same with the characters. Often times after introducing a character I intended to be minor I find that I like them or they fit in well so I flesh out that character more. Oftentimes that means going back and changing details. The trick is to make sure you change all refrences to said detail along the way.

It's run around my head a some, but I'm doing a bit of what you are. Not wholesale changes though, but tweaks that require slipping something in an earlier chapter. I think mine could be expanded to novel proportions, but....

Yep, me too.

I don't even start to write until the story is pretty much set in my mind.

I do that with my shorter stories, Cloudy. This is in a different league for me.

 

[cloudy]

I do that with my shorter stories, Cloudy. This is in a different league for me.

I do pretty much the same thing for longer pieces. The important scenes are usually set by the time I start writing. The smaller ones may change some, but the bigger ones are already written, per se.

 

[EHawkins]

Hi folks, if you've stumbled across any of my stories, you know they're mostly strokers with a glimmer of the characters' personality peeking through, maybe.

I find myself in the middle of a longer story that, to my surprise, actually has a plot and a cast of characters. It's not that complicated compared to some here, but does present a different challenge keeping track of everybody and what's going on. So how do you all do it? Notes and such? Do you sketch out personality in a few words so you can be consistent?

Since writing a story this type and length is new for me (maybe 6 or 7 chapters, 18-20,000 or so words) I thought it might be helpful looking up story writing suggestions. The things I googled discussed the structure of the story in terms of the ups and downs of the "hero." One was a twelve step process; another (low tech) suggested opening a manilla folder, write a big W and list the hi's and low's along the letter's "legs" where the plot points will occur.

So, I know the minimum about writing a story. Many of you have a lot of knowledge and experience and I'm interested in hearing your thoughts. Do you outline your stories? Is there a standard plot arc (I've heard "chase a man up a tree, shake the tree, get the man down from tree tree"). I know tension is needed, but are there rules? Or do you have a very rough thought, start writing and let it evolve and go back and edit/fill as needed?

If these questions have been addressed in a different thread and you don't want to rehash it let me know (I couldn't find it).

I usually start out with a basic idea as well. Though as I write the storoy and it evolves, I take notes about my characters and setting and play "what-if" a lot. Many times I find that after a page of notes or so, I start seeing connections between my characters and the plot starting to fill out more. I also get a better sense by this time what the internal/external conflict(s) are, how they'll contribute to the story, and how I'll start to resolve them.

Otherwise, I don't sit down and outline or anything like that. I just sit and do it and don't worry about editing until the end. I just go with the flow

If you'd like to read up on writerly stuff, the books that have helped me the most recently have been:

* Chicago Manual of Style, 15th ed. (for grammar and style. Some people find it boring, but it's very thorough--this one's my preference, hands down...)

* The Writer's Little Helper, James V. Smith, Jr. (A catch-all bag of general writing stuff. I've found it fairly useful )

* Writer's Guide to Character Traits, Linda N. Edelstein, Ph.D. (Good reference for characterization...)

* The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines: Sixteen Master Archetypes, Tami D. Cowden, Caro LaFever, Sue Viders. (Pretty useful reference for characterization, lots of good examples

I think I might have some links to stuff about general writing, but I'll have to hunt 'em up. If I find them, I'll throw 'em up here

 

[jomar]

I usually start out with a basic idea as well. Though as I write the storoy and it evolves, I take notes about my characters and setting and play "what-if" a lot. Many times I find that after a page of notes or so, I start seeing connections between my characters and the plot starting to fill out more. I also get a better sense by this time what the internal/external conflict(s) are, how they'll contribute to the story, and how I'll start to resolve them.

Otherwise, I don't sit down and outline or anything like that. I just sit and do it and don't worry about editing until the end. I just go with the flow

If you'd like to read up on writerly stuff, the books that have helped me the most recently have been:

* Chicago Manual of Style, 15th ed. (for grammar and style. Some people find it boring, but it's very thorough--this one's my preference, hands down...)

* The Writer's Little Helper, James V. Smith, Jr. (A catch-all bag of general writing stuff. I've found it fairly useful )

* Writer's Guide to Character Traits, Linda N. Edelstein, Ph.D. (Good reference for characterization...)

* The Complete Writer's Guide to Heroes and Heroines: Sixteen Master Archetypes, Tami D. Cowden, Caro LaFever, Sue Viders. (Pretty useful reference for characterization, lots of good examples

I think I might have some links to stuff about general writing, but I'll have to hunt 'em up. If I find them, I'll throw 'em up here

Thanks, EHawkins. I appreciate the references.

Your stories on Lit are fairly short. Do you post longer ones on other sites (as implied in your signature)?

 

[cloudy]

Another invaluable read for authors is Stephen King's On Writing. I'd recommend it to anyone, and I know others will agree.

No matter what you think of his books, the guy knows what he's doing.

 

[impressive]

This might be of interest:

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=473403

 

[jomar]

Thank you cloudy and imp.

 

[deathlynx]

Well, for my longer pieces I usually have some idea where it's going, but not always...For instance, my current project hasn't fully revealed the end to me...So I just type and see where it goes...

As for how I keep track, yes, I have a file for notes for these longer stories...In fact, I've set one up for my current project of my Dhase Universe so that I can even keep track of the little things...This way I can make sure I keep some diversity in my characters (otherwise I think I'd rarely have a blond for example )...But it can also be used to keep track of the bigger things just as easily

 

[jomar]

Well, for my longer pieces I usually have some idea where it's going, but not always...For instance, my current project hasn't fully revealed the end to me...So I just type and see where it goes...

As for how I keep track, yes, I have a file for notes for these longer stories...In fact, I've set one up for my current project of my Dhase Universe so that I can even keep track of the little things...This way I can make sure I keep some diversity in my characters (otherwise I think I'd rarely have a blond for example )...But it can also be used to keep track of the bigger things just as easily

Crap! I want to hear it's easy to keep it all in one's head and to keep the details straight no matter how small.

On some long pieces can't imagine not keeping some type of notes. But then, I'm a newbie and maybe everybody does it different.

And for this one, I know where it's going, just not exactly how it gets there. It's shaping up as I write though.

Thanks, deathlynx.

 

[deathlynx]

Well, keep in mind I have the world's worst memory...heck, I often forget the little things like what color someone's hair is supposed to be

 

[oggbashan]

Well, keep in mind I have the world's worst memory...heck, I often forget the little things like what color someone's hair is supposed to be

I forget their names...

Og

 

[deathlynx]

I forget their names...

Why do you think I spend so much time writing "he" and "she" in my stories

 

[oggbashan]

Why do you think I spend so much time writing "he" and "she" in my stories

I tend to use vanilla names until the characters start to form and then I give them appropriate names using search and replace. If I haven't remembered the vanilla names consistently, search and replace won't find them. My first posted version of Hard and Soft changed the hero's name three times...

Og

 

[EHawkins]

Thanks, EHawkins. I appreciate the references.

Your stories on Lit are fairly short. Do you post longer ones on other sites (as implied in your signature)?

No problem--you're quite welcome

My Lit ones are fairly short. They're really my practices, but at least two of those shorts are potentially on-going, (Sirocco, and Demon Flesh/Thy Flesh, Consumed...). Short pieces help me zero in on things I want to work on style/mechanics wise or lets me try a new genre without commiting to a long piece that may not work out well...

Right now, I have a novella in the works, (I'm currently in edits for A Dance of Shadows and haven't had the time to post much of anything here...), that's pending publishing in the summer. Dance is probably a bit over 40,000 words. When I completed the rough draft I had 11 pages of notes that I took along the way!

I also have a story called Scar Tissue that I've been writing on and off for a bit now, (don't know what I'm going to do with it when I'm done...). It's currently up to 18,634 words and has 7 pages of notes

Whether I'm writing 40,000 words or 4000, I still use the same basic process of starting out with a seed of an idea, taking notes, etc. That way, if I have multiple possibilities for characters/plot threads/setting ideas, they're all there and I can pick and chose what I want without having to remember it all

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Since writing a story this type and length is new for me (maybe 6 or 7 chapters, 18-20,000 or so words) I thought it might be helpful looking up story writing suggestions. The things I googled discussed the structure of the story in terms of the ups and downs of the "hero." One was a twelve step process; another (low tech) suggested opening a manilla folder, write a big W and list the hi's and low's along the letter's "legs" where the plot points will occur.

Are your chapters going to be 18-20K or is that the total length of your story?

I write 20K chapters for a series I am writing. I don't use anything but my mind, I keep no notes, have no plot arcs (whatever they are). I just write the story. Usually I have worked the details of the plot out in my mind, I know where the story needs to go. So when I sit down to write I know what I want to accomplish, and simply write it. As another poster said previously, it doesn't matter if you are writing 4k or 40k, the process is still the same.

 

[scriptordelecto]

Crap! I want to hear it's easy to keep it all in one's head and to keep the details straight no matter how small.

On some long pieces can't imagine not keeping some type of notes. But then, I'm a newbie and maybe everybody does it different.

And for this one, I know where it's going, just not exactly how it gets there. It's shaping up as I write though.

Thanks, deathlynx.

Everybody does do it differently. Most of us are here for the practice. I use a combination of memory and notes. I've tried other methods,but this seems to be what's most comfortable for me.

It doesn't hurt anything to try out some of the processes you researched. If they don't work, you still learn something.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

For a short story, I do much as Rob says. Create the characters in my head, let them rattle around in there until they come alive and stick them in their own story.

For longer pieces -80,000 words + (none posted on Lit) - I have to make a chart because of the proliferation of characters, places and plot and subplot twists. That's the only way to keep them straight.

 

[jomar]

Are your chapters going to be 18-20K or is that the total length of your story?

So far, that seems to be about right based on chapter length so far, but it could easily be expanded if I have the time and motivation.

I write 20K chapters for a series I am writing. I don't use anything but my mind, I keep no notes, have no plot arcs (whatever they are). I just write the story. Usually I have worked the details of the plot out in my mind, I know where the story needs to go. So when I sit down to write I know what I want to accomplish, and simply write it. As another poster said previously, it doesn't matter if you are writing 4k or 40k, the process is still the same.

Part of my learning process here is that I haven't worked out the details and twists before hand, but they're solidifying.