UBS Bank

[jeninflorida]

so what is your thought on the IRS getting bank records from the bank?

Regardless weather its legal or not who do you feel about American’s moving money overseas? Yes he or she is breaking the law hiding the money from the IRS…

Yes, I can see why people move money outside of the states.

Now ask yourself this, if you had a very comfortable life and had five million dollars in cash, everything was paid off, would you be tempted to move the money overseas and invest the money (if there was a good investment) and let the money grow for ten years…without capital gains tax…and after ten years reap the compounded growth of that investment?

This should be interesting!

 

[rgraham666]

In other words, you're all in favor of reaping the benefits of living in a country but see no reason why you have to pay for it?

 

[jeninflorida]

I can see why poeple moved money outside of the states

In other words, you're all in favor of reaping the benefits of living in a country but see no reason why you have to pay for it?

 

[sadangel]

In other words, you're all in favor of reaping the benefits of living in a country but see no reason why you have to pay for it?

I have a problem with this. Not your statement, Rob, but that people do just that.

They live in a country, then they decide to "invest" their money in other countries to avoid having to pay Capital Gains or other taxes on their money.

Perhaps I live in a sheltered world or have rose colored glasses on. I don't know.

I do care if it is legal or not. The peons of the world have to show their earnings and income to the IRS, so should those that have the good fortune to make more than enough that they can afford to 'hide' it from the IRS.

If by some strange quirk of fate I should ever become rich enough to think of doing this, I won't. I will invest right here, carefully and diligently. In whatever country that I chose as home. I will make my investments and earnings an open book to the IRS or the equivalent if it is in another country, even knowing that there will be consequences that are financial. I'd rather be open and honest than to 'hide' these things.

So to answer the question. No I would not be tempted to move my money outside of my couuntry of residence even for the so called investment value of it. That's just me.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

In the immortal words of Judge Learned Hand, "Tax avoidance is an American citizen's duty. It's tax evasion that's a crime."

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Finally a crack in the curtain of silence of the Swiss Banking conspiracy.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

I still think that taxes should be as simple as possible, either a flat tax or a graduated flat tax, and then make tax evasion an act of treason. If you can't handle 10% to keep the roads in good repair, the borders secure, safe from foreign invaders, etc then yes you should either move or be shot.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

so what is your thought on the IRS getting bank records from the bank?

Regardless weather its legal or not who do you feel about American’s moving money overseas? Yes he or she is breaking the law hiding the money from the IRS…

Yes, I can see why people move money outside of the states.

Now ask yourself this, if you had a very comfortable life and had five million dollars in cash, everything was paid off, would you be tempted to move the money overseas and invest the money (if there was a good investment) and let the money grow for ten years…without capital gains tax…and after ten years reap the compounded growth of that investment?

This should be interesting!

Capital gains tax is not due until the capital gain is realized. If you have an investment anywhere, including offshore and it appreciates in value until you sell it, you owe capital gains tax. If you receive income from the investment, such as stock dividends, that is taxable income.

Failure to pay income tax on either kind of income would be described by Learned Hand as tax evasion rather than tax avoidance.

 

[DesertPirate]

In other words, you're all in favor of reaping the benefits of living in a country but see no reason why you have to pay for it?

Like all the Brits that buy a place in Switzerland to avoid taxes?

 

[john-the-author]

You know, just this morning I was reading about the stock market getting really fluttery on the talk that banks would be nationalized. (I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, honestly.) And I was thinking quite spontaneously that it may be time to move my money overseas to more stable economies.

This isn't tax avoidance--I'm still liable for taxes on realized income--it's simply trying to find the highest rate of return for my investments.

 

[rgraham666]

Like all the Brits that buy a place in Switzerland to avoid taxes?

I fail to see the relevance of that statement, but yes, just so.

 

[sr71plt]

so what is your thought on the IRS getting bank records from the bank?

Regardless weather its legal or not who do you feel about American’s moving money overseas? Yes he or she is breaking the law hiding the money from the IRS…

Yes, I can see why people move money outside of the states.

Now ask yourself this, if you had a very comfortable life and had five million dollars in cash, everything was paid off, would you be tempted to move the money overseas and invest the money (if there was a good investment) and let the money grow for ten years…without capital gains tax…and after ten years reap the compounded growth of that investment?

This should be interesting!

You can move money out of the U.S. legally. It you are doing it illegally, by the very definition, you are committing a crime against the people and deserve to be caught and punished. That was easy. Next question?

 

[Huckleman2000]

I can see why poeple moved money outside of the states

Can you see how this has contributed to the downfall of the economy? Not in an abstract, philosophical sense, but in a real-world, cause-and-effect way? Can you see that those people, as wealthy as they are, are living on the public dole? That they are net losses to the overall productivity of the US economy?

How are such people different from so-called "welfare queens"?

 

[rgraham666]

Because they earned it!

 

[sr71plt]

Because they earned it!

and/or conned it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Because they earned it!

Maybe, or maybe they stole it or swindled somebody.

 

[sadangel]

Can you see how this has contributed to the downfall of the economy? Not in an abstract, philosophical sense, but in a real-world, cause-and-effect way? Can you see that those people, as wealthy as they are, are living on the public dole? That they are net losses to the overall productivity of the US economy?

How are such people different from so-called "welfare queens"?

Glad you said it. I was thinking something along that line but didn't want to say anything. I'm sure that I'm one of the one's that she would refer to as a "welfare queen" or whatever word she would use.

I've been on SSI/Medicaid for 10 years. Not because I want to be, but because after my fourth/fifth stroke, I could no longer work. I could get foodstamps, and trust me, it would help. I've gone to bed hungry many times the last 8 years, but I won't ask for that additional help because I don't want anyone thinking I'm asking for a damn govermenet handout. If I could work, if I could stand for 8 hours a day, I'd damn well be doing it. I don't just sit on my fat lazy ass and collect what the gov't "gives" me. It might look that way to some, but I worked as long as I could as hard as I could and now I need the extra help and I'm not going to apologize for having to accept it.

Because they earned it!

Maybe, or maybe they stole it or swindled somebody.

They earned it. Yeah. Perhaps swindeled or stole it. Tax evasion is still tax evasion. I stand by my statement earlier that No, I still wouldn't do it. Not even if I knew I would never be caught.

 

[jeninflorida]

Well that is where you are wrong…how to say this correctly. If one is unable to work due to some condition or disability I have no issue supporting. What I have issues with are people like octomom, and others that have chosen to use welfare as a career choice.

All I'm saying is that I can see why people move money out of the country.

Glad you said it. I was thinking something along that line but didn't want to say anything. I'm sure that I'm one of the one's that she would refer to as a "welfare queen" or whatever word she would use.

I've been on SSI/Medicaid for 10 years. Not because I want to be, but because after my fourth/fifth stroke, I could no longer work. I could get foodstamps, and trust me, it would help. I've gone to bed hungry many times the last 8 years, but I won't ask for that additional help because I don't want anyone thinking I'm asking for a damn govermenet handout. If I could work, if I could stand for 8 hours a day, I'd damn well be doing it. I don't just sit on my fat lazy ass and collect what the gov't "gives" me. It might look that way to some, but I worked as long as I could as hard as I could and now I need the extra help and I'm not going to apologize for having to accept it.






They earned it. Yeah. Perhaps swindeled or stole it. Tax evasion is still tax evasion. I stand by my statement earlier that No, I still wouldn't do it. Not even if I knew I would never be caught.

 

[sadangel]

Well that is where you are wrong…how to say this correctly. If one is unable to work due to some condition or disability I have no issue supporting. What I have issues with are people like octomom, and others that have chosen to use welfare as a career choice.

All I'm saying is that I can see why people move money out of the country.

I am glad you understand my position and on that note. I understand yours with those that make it a career choice. The small town I grew up in there was a family of 3 soon to be then 4 generations that used the welfare system for their means of living. Every one that could did. I don't agree with that. Only one person from that family broke away from it and became something. And her family looked down on her for it. (She's a doctor and happily married now.)

If it's legal, to do it that is one thing. The way the question was asked, it appeared that wasn't the case. When it's illegal I think it is wrong.

 

[jeninflorida]

This should upset some people  but I feel that welfare (this is for able and willing people who want to improve his or her life and the lives of their children) for the most part is another form of slavery. The welfare system well it’s not really designed for people to get out of the system. If I was Prez, I would make a lot of changes…first what do people need to improve his or her life on welfare? Most need skills and that should mean college or a trade school. The first question raised how can one support the family, day care, eat, and pay to take classes?

Hopefully someday some politician will come up with the idea to provide housing (some type of dorm system), day care, and food via some type of cafeteria system. Now instead of giving this away for free…people who sign up would have a low interest (.01 to under 1% interest rate). Yes, this program would be way more expensive than our current welfare system but when the economy is good, people who went through this system will provide a better life for their family and have a higher standard of living…

Government needs to get away from giving people things for free. The old biblical passage, “to give a man a fish or teach a man how to fish…”

I am glad you understand my position and on that note. I understand yours with those that make it a career choice. The small town I grew up in there was a family of 3 soon to be then 4 generations that used the welfare system for their means of living. Every one that could did. I don't agree with that. Only one person from that family broke away from it and became something. And her family looked down on her for it. (She's a doctor and happily married now.)

If it's legal, to do it that is one thing. The way the question was asked, it appeared that wasn't the case. When it's illegal I think it is wrong.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm pretty sure that Welfare (capital "W") as you describe it was killed years ago by the Bush administration. And many of those folks who really can't take care of themselves are out on the street with the churches trying to give them a bit of support.

 

[jeninflorida]

Please its biz as usual, granted not a lot of jobs high paying out there, but its biz as usual on welfare. we still have a lot of jobs in america and a lot of people coming to america to do jobs that american's will not.

I'm pretty sure that Welfare (capital "W") as you describe it was killed years ago by the Bush administration. And many of those folks who really can't take care of themselves are out on the street with the churches trying to give them a bit of support.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm pretty sure that Welfare (capital "W") as you describe it was killed years ago by the Bush administration. And many of those folks who really can't take care of themselves are out on the street with the churches trying to give them a bit of support.

Actually, it was severely crippled, maybe even killed during the Clinton years. However, that was part of the Rep. "Contract with America" to eliminate the kind of welfare recipients that Sadangel wrote about. They are the kind who always piss people off; especially they piss off those who suport themselves as best they can, or try hard to support themselves.

 

[rgraham666]

And if it worked the way such projects usually work, the people who needed the welfare to survive ended up on the streets and the players just learned how to satisfy the new rules.

That's how it always works.

Not that the people behind such schemes give a shit. They can't tell the difference between the players and the needy. And even if they could, they wouldn't care. The poor are sinners and deserve to suffer.

 

[jeninflorida]

I can’t even imagine the pain that you have gone though and the fight that you must have had, and still have working through the system(s). re-reading what you wrote, just pisses me off. One should not have to go to bed hungry. I grew up very poor, and my mom fed us macaroni and cheese for nearly two years. When we had something extra my mom would put in hot dogs…needless to say I still can’t each mac&cheese to this day.

From the comments that Rgraham666 says, I totally can see the value of having a universal health care system like Canada…as when one is unable to work there should be some type of good support system in place. In addition to that if one was able to do something, even a part time job (or freelance) one should not have to worry about earning too much money or jeopardize what benefits he or she is receiving.

I remember when my grandfather was still alive, he and my grandmother didn’t have a pot to pee in and he would earn cash for fixing lawn mowers, do small repairs on cars, and different jobs. He wanted to work part time but he would be penalized by the system. Whatever money he made really didn’t change their standard of living but gave them some breathing room.

I am glad you understand my position and on that note. I understand yours with those that make it a career choice. The small town I grew up in there was a family of 3 soon to be then 4 generations that used the welfare system for their means of living. Every one that could did. I don't agree with that. Only one person from that family broke away from it and became something. And her family looked down on her for it. (She's a doctor and happily married now.)

If it's legal, to do it that is one thing. The way the question was asked, it appeared that wasn't the case. When it's illegal I think it is wrong.