U.S. looks at supporting anti-Russian insurgency in Ukraine

[pecksniff]

New development.

President Biden has not determined how the United States might arm insurgents in Ukraine who would conduct what would amount to a guerrilla war against Russian military occupation. Nor is it clear what Russia’s next move might be, or whether Mr. Putin intends to launch a cyberattack. On Friday, hackers brought down several Ukrainian government websites, after days of talks between Russia and the West about the crisis.

But Biden administration officials have begun signaling to Russia, which has massed about 100,000 troops at its borders with Ukraine, that even if it managed to swiftly capture territory, Mr. Putin would eventually find the costs of an invasion prohibitively expensive in terms of military losses.

“If Putin invades Ukraine with a major military force, U.S. and NATO military assistance — intelligence, cyber, anti-armor and anti-air weapons, offensive naval missiles — would ratchet up significantly,” said James Stavridis, a retired four-star Navy admiral who was the supreme allied commander at NATO. “And if it turned into a Ukrainian insurgency, Putin should realize that after fighting insurgencies ourselves for two decades, we know how to arm, train and energize them.”

He pointed to American support for the mujahedeen in Afghanistan against the Soviet invasion there in the late 1970s and 1980s, before the rise of the Taliban. “The level of military support” for a Ukrainian insurgence, Admiral Stavridis said, “would make our efforts in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union look puny by comparison.”

Both Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III and Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, have warned their Russian counterparts in recent telephone calls that any swift Russian victory in Ukraine would probably be followed by a bloody insurgency similar to the one that drove the Soviet Union from Afghanistan. In discussions with allies, senior Biden officials have also made clear that the C.I.A. (covertly) and the Pentagon (overtly) would both seek to help any Ukrainian insurgency.

Would that really do any good?

More importantly, will the threat of it do any good as a deterrent?

 

[GothTalk]

The Democrats want another Afghanistan.

 

[pecksniff]

The Democrats want another Afghanistan.

Well, the first one -- the phase where the U.S. was just funding the rebels against the USSR, instead of having its own troops on the ground -- did cause the Russians a lot of butthurt.

 

[Tigersman]

Trump and his supporters want to let Russia invade the Ukraine so Putin can recreate the old USSR. Trump's motive is his greed which would be sated by being allowed to build a hotel in Moscow. His funding for the hotel would come from the Russian government.

 

[GothTalk]

Well, the first one -- the phase where the U.S. was just funding the rebels against the USSR, instead of having its own troops on the ground -- did cause the Russians a lot of butthurt.

Trump and his supporters want to let Russia invade the Ukraine so Putin can recreate the old USSR. Trump's motive is his greed which would be sated by being allowed to build a hotel in Moscow. His funding for the hotel would come from the Russian government.

Knew it, look at team America world police being cheered on by the new war hawks.

 

[Rightguide]

New development.



Would that really do any good?

More importantly, will the threat of it do any good as a deterrent?

Are you kidding? There's probably a US Special Operations command being stood up in Poland right now. Would they be effective? Damn right.

 

[ll74]

Are you kidding? There's probably a US Special Operations command being stood up in Poland right now. Would they be effective? Damn right.

We should've had special forces in there from 2014 onward, training people.

 

[Wrong Element]

Knew it, look at team America world police being cheered on by the new war hawks.

Big difference between acting as "world police" and affirming a belief in self-defense and self-determination. We'd all be happy to see the Russians just go home.

 

[GothTalk]

Big difference between acting as "world police" and affirming a belief in self-defense and self-determination.

Self defense and self determination don't need affirmation.... that's the beautiful thing about them.

We'd all be happy to see the Russians just go home.

But they aren't, they told everyone who wishes that to either do something about it or get fucked.

So we go play world police, or we STFU and see how it turns out.

 

[icanhelp1]

We should've had special forces in there from 2014 onward, training people.

Polish forces have been training with spec ops from all over the world for a long time, probably since 1999.

 

[ll74]

Polish forces have been training with spec ops from all over the world for a long time, probably since 1999.

Which part of the Ukraine was that?

 

[icanhelp1]

Which part of the Ukraine was that?

Post #6 # 7 mentioned Poland

 

[ll74]

Post #6 # 7 mentioned Poland

I was focused on the Ukraine aspect, but now I get where you were coming from.

Apologies.

 

[pecksniff]

It's hard to believe, now, but there was a time when Poland was the Big Scary Empire of Eastern Europe. And Euros have long memories. Making Poland into a "mini superpower" now might have unintended consequences.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The Democrats want another Afghanistan.

Of course we do.

 

[ll74]

The Democrats want another Afghanistan.

Putin invaded a sovereign country. We want to stop him from being an asshole.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Trump and his supporters want to let Russia invade the Ukraine so Putin can recreate the old USSR. Trump's motive is his greed which would be sated by being allowed to build a hotel in Moscow. His funding for the hotel would come from the Russian government.

Odd how Putin didn't invade until Dementia Joe stumbled into office, no? Is he getting a cut of that Trump deal, as is customary? Maybe it's because Trump told Putin not to invade Ukraine or he'd obliterate Moscow.

 

[jomar]

Odd how Putin didn't invade until Dementia Joe stumbled into office, no? Is he getting a cut of that Trump deal, as is customary? Maybe it's because Trump told Putin not to invade Ukraine or he'd obliterate Moscow.

Sure, that makes perfect sense that Putin would cower from trump‘s bloviating bluster. If he even said that.

 

[oggbashan]

Polish forces have been training with spec ops from all over the world for a long time, probably since 1999.

The Poles remember 1939 when they were attacked by Nazi Germany from the West and the USSR from the East and all they had was cavalry against tanks.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

Sure, that makes perfect sense that Putin would cower from trump‘s bloviating bluster. If he even said that.

Trump was an unknown quantity who said this directly to Putin. Puting reportedly scoffed at Trump, wo continued talking about it, saying "all those beautiful gold domes, destroyed." Would you take that chance when you could just wait him out and invade when a weak-kneed Dem was back in office?

 

[YDB95]

Trump was an unknown quantity who said this directly to Putin. Puting reportedly scoffed at Trump, wo continued talking about it, saying "all those beautiful gold domes, destroyed." Would you take that chance when you could just wait him out and invade when a weak-kneed Dem was back in office?

That's not what Putin was waiting for. He was waiting for Trump to pull the US out of NATO, as he said he would do in his second term, which would make it a lot easier for Putin to take back as much of the former USSR as he wanted to.
And the claim that Trump threatened to attack Moscow is a secondhand story from an untrustworthy source. It does not sound even a little bit in-character for Trump, especially not with someone he thinks admires him. Remember, Trump NEVER said one harsh word about anyone he thought liked him.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

That's not what Putin was waiting for. He was waiting for Trump to pull the US out of NATO, as he said he would do in his second term, which would make it a lot easier for Putin to take back as much of the former USSR as he wanted to.
And the claim that Trump threatened to attack Moscow is a secondhand story from an untrustworthy source. It does not sound even a little bit in-character for Trump, especially not with someone he thinks admires him. Remember, Trump NEVER said one harsh word about anyone he thought liked him.

Trump wasn't going to shut down NATO, he said that to shock the deadbeats into complying with the treaty's 2% provisions...if you're not going to support NATO, NATO isn't going to support you.

That story isn't second-hand, but from Trump himself.

 

[ll74]

Trump wasn't going to shut down NATO, he said that to shock the deadbeats into complying with the treaty's 2% provisions...if you're not going to support NATO, NATO isn't going to support you.

That story isn't second-hand, but from Trump himself.

They were already on target to hit their obligations.

 

[YDB95]

Trump wasn't going to shut down NATO, he said that to shock the deadbeats into complying with the treaty's 2% provisions...if you're not going to support NATO, NATO isn't going to support you.

That story isn't second-hand, but from Trump himself.

1. No one said anything about "shutting down NATO", what we said was that Trump was considering pulling the US out of it, and he was: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html

2. Trump is an EXTREMELY unreliable narrator, with literally thousands of documented lies to his credit.

 

[Bud_Spencer]

They were already on target to hit their obligations.

Untrue. Germany is still a good $7-8B behind per annum, and they increased spending 40% since 2014 (thanks to Trump). Italy is about $6B short. Spain $10B short....and most of these countries increased spending greatly at Trump's urging.