U.S. Fertility: Does Prayer facilitate Reproduction?

[Pure]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/20/AR2007122002725_pf.html

U.S. Fertility Rate Hits 35-Year High, Stabilizing Population

The article discusses a number of possible reasons, including the number of Hispanics, and the high rate of immigration. Further,

"Americans are much more religious than Europeans: They believe in God more. They go to church more," said Charles Westoff, a Princeton University demographer. "That sort of religious attitude or set of values is strongly correlated with fertility."

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Just to set the stage for the predictable rant: Maybe universal health care causes infertility! How do Japan, HongKong and Singapore figure in the picture? I wonder if women's suffrage is to blame.

On Singapore, see the following, re 'lifestyle impotency"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12826-2004Sep10.html

 

[Stella_Omega]

Pure, pleeeze set up a non- moderator alt so that we have the choice to ignore these posts of yours.

 

[R. Richard]

From the experiences of several couples I knew back in school, I can tell you positively that prayer does not facilitate NON-reproduction.

 

[Katyusha]

From the experiences of several couples I knew back in school, I can tell you positively that prayer does not facilitate NON-reproduction.

Very true.

But if prayer facilitates fertility, then why doesn't it facilitate other things, like intelligence or common sense?

 

[Stella_Omega]

From the experiences of several couples I knew back in school, I can tell you positively that prayer does not facilitate NON-reproduction.

The lord helps those who help themselves-- to a box of Trojans.

 

[emap]

Oh honestly Stella, have a little consideration for those of faith, Catholics can't use condoms, and they can't pull out, not to mention can't have sex except to get pregnant.

To me actually, this whole increased pregnancies rate is not because there are more mexicans in the country. They do tend to be pregnant or have a baby or two on their hip. At least in my area anyway. What is actually causing this increase of pregnancies, lack of safe sex.

No seriously, if everybody reached for a condom when some cute guy or hot chick said want to go back to my place for sex there would be no pregnancies besides the married couples, who oddly enough are tending toward not having kids to reduce their carbon footprint on the world. Well actually not really about the carbon footprint, just could not help mentioning that stupid thing.

Most married couples seem to be saying we will wait for kids until we are set economically so we do not create a burden on the country. At least the ones that are mentioned in the news anyway. Which is a good idea, though does sorta create a lack of pregnancies.

So basically YAY dumb kids. Can't be bothered to grab a condom that would rob them of a drink or two, or got so drunk the free condoms they got from their college broke, without you the country would be having more space not less.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Oh honestly Stella, have a little consideration for those of faith, Catholics can't use condoms, and they can't pull out, not to mention can't have sex except to get pregnant.

To me actually, this whole increased pregnancies rate is not because there are more mexicans in the country. They do tend to be pregnant or have a baby or two on their hip. At least in my area anyway. What is actually causing this increase of pregnancies, lack of safe sex.

No seriously, if everybody reached for a condom when some cute guy or hot chick said want to go back to my place for sex there would be no pregnancies besides the married couples, who oddly enough are tending toward not having kids to reduce their carbon footprint on the world. Well actually not really about the carbon footprint, just could not help mentioning that stupid thing.

Most married couples seem to be saying we will wait for kids until we are set economically so we do not create a burden on the country. At least the ones that are mentioned in the news anyway. Which is a good idea, though does sorta create a lack of pregnancies.

So basically YAY dumb kids. Can't be bothered to grab a condom that would rob them of a drink or two, or got so drunk the free condoms they got from their college broke, without you the country would be having more space not less.

I agree that it's less use of contraception. I didn't say safe sex; I said contraception, which is sometimes the same thing. Since Catholics are forbidden to use contraception, and most Mexicans are Catholics, the increase of persons of that nationality could make a difference. It's religion, not ethnicity, of course, but it amounts to the same thing.

 

[Pure]

emap,

according to the article, 'dumb teens' [clueless on birth control]--a US phenomenon-- can't account for the phenomenon. the fertilitiy figure is up for ages well into the 20s.

further, note the young Spears girl. i doubt she was ignorant of b.c.

emap:
So basically YAY dumb kids. Can't be bothered to grab a condom that would rob them of a drink or two, or got so drunk the free condoms they got from their college broke, without you the country would be having more space not less

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree that it's less use of contraception. I didn't say safe sex; I said contraception, which is sometimes the same thing. Since Catholics are forbidden to use contraception, and most Mexicans are Catholics, the increase of persons of that nationality could make a difference. It's religion, not ethnicity, of course, but it amounts to the same thing.

Safe sex is always contraceptive, functionally.

I know of Mexicans who are not Catholic, and that's part of why they've come here-- for religious freedom.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Safe sex is always contraceptive, functionally.

True, but contraception is not always safe sex. The Pill will not prevent VD.

 

[Stella_Omega]

True, but contraception is not always safe sex. The Pill will not prevent VD.

*blink*

One of my friends came to me with a little case of unintended pregnancy. I said; "Weren't you guys practising safe sex?" as we drove to the clinic...

Well, yeah; besides catching pregnancy, she'd caught Hep 'C' as well.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Pure,
The answer for your question is an absolute YES for all the nerds out there who are continuously praying for sex - with anyone of the opposite gender.

Otherwise...

 

[emap]

Pure I did not say teens, read it again, I said dumb kids and go on to mention the free college condoms breaking. Besides I talk about buying drinks instead of condoms, have to be 21 or look it with a good fake to buy drinks.

Teens are less of the problem than the so called adults, even with teen pregnancy up. I'd have to check but the latest number I remember was one in ten thousand teenagers will get pregnant. Something like one in one thousand will get an STD though. The STD number may be in all sexually active, been a while since I looked.

 

[john-the-author]

Very true.

But if prayer facilitates fertility, then why doesn't it facilitate other things, like intelligence or common sense?

I just saw something recently that shows a loose correlation between a lack of education and religiosity. As if that's a real surprise.

As an old friend of mine from Britain said to me some 20 years ago, "You know, John, before I moved to this country, I wasn't aware that you could have religion without spirituality. I just didn't think you could do it!"

 

[Pure]

hi emap,

if by 'kids' you meant college 'kids', that doesn't adequately account for the figures. i say it's huckleberry and his buds:

//"The teenagers may have had some impact, but the birthrate went up for every group, including women in their 20s, and they account for a huge percentage of the childbearing in this country," Ventura said.//

i think the point is that ignorance about birth control is likely not the major factor, for the 25+ groups.

===

Pure I did not say teens, read it again, I said dumb kids and go on to mention the free college condoms breaking. Besides I talk about buying drinks instead of condoms, have to be 21 or look it with a good fake to buy drinks.

Teens are less of the problem than the so called adults, even with teen pregnancy up. I'd have to check but the latest number I remember was one in ten thousand teenagers will get pregnant. Something like one in one thousand will get an STD though. The STD number may be in all sexually active, been a while since I looked.

 

[Boxlicker101]

if by 'kids' you meant college 'kids', that doesn't adequately account for the figures. i say it's huckleberry and his buds:

//"The teenagers may have had some impact, but the birthrate went up for every group, including women in their 20s, and they account for a huge percentage of the childbearing in this country," Ventura said.//

i think the point is that ignorance about birth control is likely not the major factor, for the 25+ groups.

===

Pure I did not say teens, read it again, I said dumb kids and go on to mention the free college condoms breaking. Besides I talk about buying drinks instead of condoms, have to be 21 or look it with a good fake to buy drinks.

Teens are less of the problem than the so called adults, even with teen pregnancy up. I'd have to check but the latest number I remember was one in ten thousand teenagers will get pregnant. Something like one in one thousand will get an STD though. The STD number may be in all sexually active, been a while since I looked.

Huckleberry is certainly part of it, and ignorant kids is probably another reason. I'm quite sure there are several reasons that contribute.

You don't have to be 21 to get beer or other drinks. To legally do so, you have to be at least 21, but there are other ways, such as having an adult buy it for you. When I was just 15, I looked older and I used to buy beer some places.

 

[elsol]

Here's a better reason for higher 'fertility' among minority groups like 'mexicans'... opportunity.

College tends to raise the age at which a person has a child... in my experience.

 

[xssve]

It's established that regular sexual activity commencing within seven years of first menstruation maximises fertility, so if anything, it's probobly actually all this liberal promiscuity that's driving fertility rates upwards.

All we know about religion is that divorce rates are higher - atheists actually have the lowest divorce rates, Catholics the lowest among the popular religions - Baptists, who are typically the most virulent of Calvinists, actually lead the pack in the highest divorce rates.

 

[xssve]

i.e., it was reported not too long ago that the US had surpassed France in average frequency of intercourse and whereas the women praying to get pregnent are probobly mostly the ones having fertility problems to begin with.

 

[ishtat]

If you're praying to be pregnant get on your knees.

 

[xssve]

An excellent counterpoint...

 

[Boxlicker101]

If you're praying to be pregnant get on your knees.

A woman can have sex while on her knees, but not usually the kind that would get her pregnant.

 

[WRJames]

I think the answer is simpler, at and the same time more troubling. The US did not suffer the devastation of the first and second world wars in the same way as Europe (and Japan). I don't think that Europe ever recovered spiritually from the WW 2. The cynicism, the pessimism, lack of faith, lack of fertility -- all can be traced back to the horror of those years.

US birth rates were low during the Great Depression, and it had nothing to do with lack of religion, per se. It had more to do with lack of hope. Even though Europe has recovered superficially, there is still an element of deep despair in the European world view that you don't find in Americans, at least not to as great an extent.

As that despair wears off, if it ever does, Europe will probably become more fertile, and possibly more religious as well.

 

[xssve]

An interesting point, difficult to entirely discount- WWII does not loom large in the American imagination, outside a few odd fetishists, who do not really focus overmuch on the philosopical implications. To say that the Bush administation is more than a bit National Sociliast in overtone as well as underone doesn't cause a lot of uproar here, outside the usual paritsan noise, -we're immune, by catagorical definition - wouldn't be a shocker to me fif ther were not other phychological fallout.

Still, I think it's stretching it a bit, the very senselessness of current American culture argues against it - sure, it coud be subconscious, but I'm leaning for more of a statistical explanation - the latinos I suspect would account for a lot of it, I can't really sa I've seen a lot of evidence that large families are back "in" in anglo circles - it's still too much of a bitch just trying to pay the rent and keep up with the Joneses.

 

[ishtat]

I think the answer is simpler, at and the same time more troubling. The US did not suffer the devastation of the first and second world wars in the same way as Europe (and Japan). I don't think that Europe ever recovered spiritually from the WW 2. The cynicism, the pessimism, lack of faith, lack of fertility -- all can be traced back to the horror of those years.

US birth rates were low during the Great Depression, and it had nothing to do with lack of religion, per se. It had more to do with lack of hope. Even though Europe has recovered superficially, there is still an element of deep despair in the European world view that you don't find in Americans, at least not to as great an extent.

As that despair wears off, if it ever does, Europe will probably become more fertile, and possibly more religious as well.

I prefer not to be too rude about a very silly post so will content myself with the observation that the countries in Europe with the lowest post war birthrates were both neutral and catholic - Ireland and Spain. Sweden and Switzerland were both very low too.