Types Of Feedback

[dr_mabeuse]

Before you ask for feedback on a story or piece of writing here, take a moment to think about what you really want. Some people ask for feedback when what they really want is either an opinion or flat out praise, and when they receive criticism, they take it as a personal attack.

I think that most reviewers on this board understand "feedback" to mean a critique of the writing, so what you're most likely going to get when you ask for feedback is a bunch of criticisms on what the reviewers feel is wrong with your story. You might hear a few "I liked it" or "It sucked", but mostly you're going to get a bunch of comments on your story from an author's point of view. It's unfortunate that these comments are usually negative, but the reviewer is probably really trying to help you improve the story, and it's almost always easier to spot flaws in a story than it is to pick out what's done well. Besides, as they say, praise doesn't help you improve. It helps keep you where you are.

If you just want to know whether readers liked your story or not, try making that plain and asking for their opinion. You might get some criticisms on the writing, but not as much as if you'd asked for feedback.

Then there are a lot of people who ask for feedback when what they really want is praise. We all want praise; that's why we publish. But these are the people who snap back at reviewers and feel personally attacked by criticism. If you really don't want to hear what's wrong with your story, then it's a good idea to say so. I don't know if anyone will comply, but at least then you have some justification for biting back at your critics.

Finally, if you're just trying to advertise your story and get people to look at it, consider posting to the "New Story Advertisements" thread. Here you can be as shameless as you like and hype your writing all you want. This is much better than the old practice of creating an alternate Lit identity who then talks up your story. That's just odious.

---dr.M.

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Thank you...

I know it is always helpful as a reviewer to know exactly what the person wants. Just a request for "feedback" is going to result in anything that comes to mind for me (typos, opinions, likes and dislikes) where if someone says they only want an opinion I'll tell them how I feel about a work and then a quick explanantion of why I feel that way.

I think communication is always a good thing!

Thanks Dr. M.

~WOK

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Hey Dr. M,

Feedback is most often negative simply because the person giving it isn't looking at your work for what you did right, but for places you can IMPORVE yourself. Some reviewers will practically ignore the actual story and give you pointers on grammar, spelling, diction and flow. Some will read the story and point out places where you are ambiguous or where you could have done a better job with characterization or plot. Its all helpful to the aspiring writer, but it is for the most part also negative.

People asking for feedback should have a thick skin. People looking for praise are probably in for a rude awakening. I don't post asking for critique for the simple reason I fear a review by you or hiddenself more than a heretic feared the Inquisition That is not because they are bad, but because they are so thorough and concise. I'm not sure my ego is ready for that level of honesty about my talent or lack there of.

In general I confine my comments to things I see that pull me out of the story. Inconsistancies in character, mood, plot or setting. I am not proficient enough at grammar to really give the kind of technical review that you guys do. I try to find some positives to mention so as not to sound like I am being nit picky or unduly critical, but in the end my comments on what you did wrong are more likely to help you improve than those on what I thought you did right.

Posting here asking for feedback comes with the very real risk you are going to hear things you don't really want to. Those who can separate themselves from their works and embrace the problems pointed out and solutions offered are sure to profit from it as a writer. Those who can't are likely to get angry. I think you make a very valid distinction between feedback and praise. They are not one and the same. I think a thread like this is a great idea, allowing people to realize that requests for feedback are going to get you views of your story from other authors and that is isn't all going to be roses.

-Colly

 

[A7inchPhildo]

dr_m,

Nice to see your post. As always I respect a lot of what you have to offer. "Good man here folks" the dr. is....

Folowing the dr_m link is quite an adventure. You might want to find out for ones self. Sory I never posted but very educational and mind opening. I do not know who she is, but strange envy runs through my blood between the stories and pictures.

A degree of respect was bumped when I posted a stupid comment pic to the TP and choc/guac thread. I must say I see you as only trying to help others in the best intrest of the majority. Your link shows me you are beyond me and I am glad you are here too.

Phildo

 

[Omni]

great advice Dr M

I agree with this Dr M, and have thought for a long time that people that want feedback should add to their posts exactly what they are looking for.

I have been tempted to post and ask the posters asking for feedback for clarification and now unless I read the post and it clearly has the words feedback in the body of the post, I will not critique it. Even though the name of this sub forum IS Story Feedback.



Omni

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I fear a review by you or hiddenself more than a heretic feared the Inquisition That is not because they are bad, but because they are so thorough and concise. I'm not sure my ego is ready for that level of honesty about my talent or lack there of.

Believe it or not, a lot of times I wish I weren't like this. I know that a lot of reviewers will give a new author a pass, figuring that it's their first time, but I'm just not able to do that: it feels too much like lying.

When I critique a story, I always ask myself what is it that keeps this from being a really great story and I base my feedback on that, so I do hold all stories to a very high standard. And I'll admit that I don't have much patience for those authors who have no idea what makes a story good or not and who think that anything they write must be great just because they've written it. I see a lot of stories posted by authors who just don't have a clue, and since reading a story and analyzing take a good amount of time, there is a temptation to be, shall we say, painfully blunt.

On the other hand, I really don't mean to be malicious, and I try to make it clear that a critique of writing isn't the same a critique of the writer.

For what it's worth, my reaction to criticism is pretty much the same as anyone else's. My initial reaction is too often to take it personally and to be somewhat hurt and angry. But after the initial bruise goes down, I usually find that the reviewer raised some good points, and I learn something from them. I hope that this is how it works for most people. No gain without pain.

---dr.M.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I don't find your critique's at all malicious. I hope My post didn't come through that way. I really reapect you and hiddenself and the others who read a story and take the time to give a solid critique. I just know my own ego is to fragile to stand up to one at this point.

-Colly

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

You'll get there Colly....

It takes a while to develop that "thick skin" everyone raves so much about. But you'll do it eventually.

I suppose I have become the opposite.

I want my critiques (or workshops, if you will) to be a blood bath.

I want every line dissected and every wayward passage pointed out and analyzed. I thrive on this because I recognize that my skills as a writer are never as good as my skills as a reader. I am far too close to the story to see the flaws.

The only time I feel at all "hurt" by a critique is if the reviewer tells me that there is nothing at all of value in the entire work (I once had an editor tell me: "Scrap the whole thing. Even the idea is grabage.") And I suppose it is because I thought that the idea was good enough to work with and I feel like it is an "attack" on my ideas rather than my execution. (Am I making even a kernel of sense here?). Even then, I try to at least consider that the criticism might be valid on some level, even if I feel a bit wounded. (Hell, maybe some of my ideas do suck.)

Right now I am working on a rather large piece and I know it has been a long time since I wrote fiction, much less anything of this length (and say what you will... I still find short stories easier to write). So, I am hoping that if I beg and plead enough and I put it up here in bite-sized chunks, that you will all see fit (including the illustirous Dr. M, whose critiques are always on the money) to read it and help me polish it into a worthwhile piece.

Don't worry Colly, the thick skin will come. I know you are "newer" to the writing world and I think there comes a time for every writer where s/he becomes more concerned with reaching the reader than s/he is with her/his ego. It's just an arduous path until you get there.

~WOK

 

[ffreak]

If you have the fortune to get reviewed by the good Doctor, go over it several times. Even when he couches his critiques with comments that are personal (and he tells you when they are), they reflect a portion of your readership and should still be considered. I am not advocating that every single comment in any critique should be applied to the current story, but that you can use those comments to better yourself as a writer.

Rules for the simple comments:
1) Comments with praise - store all of these in an easy to get to place. Whenever you are feeling down and are considering an end to your literary career, read them over and over until that warm fuzzy feeling returns.
2) Comments that suck - delete these, they do not have anything to contribute to the sunshine in your life, unless you print them out and use them to start a fire.

If you want critique, remember that asking for it in a board frequented by writers and editors, that they're probably going to point out the bad along with the good (and Dr. M does point out the good, too).

-FF

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Man....

looking at my last piece, you can tell I have "verb agreement" and "verb tense" issues.

Where oh where is my grammar check key? lol.

~WOK (and lets not talk about the spelling thing too)

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I'm not sure I will ever develop thick skin. Turth be told it took over a month of brow beating and persuasion to get me to post in the first place. Simply put I am not a real confident person and my confidence in my ability is even shakier. I think I may turn out to be more comfortable in the half light of wondering if I am any good than I would be in the full glare of knowing I wasn't.

Time will tell, but thank you for the vote of confidence

-Colly

 

[Seattle Zack]

I edit a lot of web site content (God how I hate that term) in my writing contracts, and I often work with young writers. At first, I used to just correct grammatical errors but now I take the time to go back to the writer and go over the errors that he or she made before I pass it along. The old "Give a man a fish ..." proverb.

I have learned to be somewhat diplomatic when I critique someone's writing, however, because writing is such a personal thing that many take it as a personal attack (I'm certainly no different inthat regard). I've discovered that just ripping something apart, however well-deserved it may be, is not always the most productive approach in the long run.

Any writer who wants to sell anything, on the other hand, is going to get rejected many times, so it's best to try and learn from even the harshest feedback. Personally, I appreciate something like a short note scrawled on my manuscript from the editor than one of those form letter rejections that doesn't even mention my work in particular.

--Zack