Two questions

[iwatchus]

I have two questions for the hive mind.

Background:

I am writing a three part story right now. I was expecting about 20K per chapter, but as I am finishing the first chapter, it will probably be closer to 30. My original intent was to write an ethical Mind Control story, somewhat inspired by the thread a month or two ago.

Chapter 1: the MMC, a nice kid, but largely inexperienced (obviously because he is nice ) college student, gains mind reading ability at the same time he meets the girl of his dreams, using his extra knowledge to help in his courting. He has some qualms about what he is doing. Things do not get as far as penetrative sex; FMC is prudish, kissing him 18K in was her first kiss*

Chapter 2: MMC learns that he can insert ideas when he inadvertently gives FMC a dream that she wants to show her body off to him. He is horrified/intrigued that he can do this, but does it a few more times (not to her) for "Good" FMC and MMC have sex, willingly.

Chapter 3: MMC discovers that when he is really intense, he can perform classic mind control, discovering this when he makes FMC start giving him oral. As soon as he realized what he is doing, he stops it. He then uses in anger against someone bullying FMC. He is terrified of what he might do when he suddenly loses his powers altogether. And then happily ever after.

My plan is to finish drafts of all three first and then publish each chapter as I finish the editing on it.


Questions:

1) *FMC kissing him is not actually her first kiss. Summer before tenth grade, so under age, her best friend (female) convinces her that they should practice kissing so they will know what it's like. Friend actually was hoping for more than kisses and came out of the closet a few years later. How far into discussing that incident can I go without incurring the wrath of underage rule? It is a notable character development moment for FMC. But I don't want the story bounced because of it. I f I have to, I have thought about giving a minimal reference, including a comment, "but that's a story for another time and another site." someone as a poke, but I might be poking the bear with that one. If I go the full route and it bounces, I don't think I would have the guts to include the jab.

Am I over worrying about this? Advice from anyone who pushes the boundaries at all?

2) I am kind of thinking chapter 1 will get shredded in MC, having no full on sex (the hottest part it is him telepathically eaves dropping on her masturbating) and lacking true mind control, just telepathyl. I am starting to winder if I should edge this one more towards Romance and then put chapters 2 and 3 in MC. I know 2 and 3 may also get trashed in MC because I am raising the ethical questions in it, but that is as it is. It will have two different kinds of mind control and actual sex, so maybe people will be happy with it.

I know the standard answer is to wait until it's done and see where it fits, but I can tune this chapter towards either direction. I don't have to make my mind up until I finish everything, but I don't want to tune it one way and then have to rewrite significant chunks for the other.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[Voboy]

Q1: mention she kissed for practice with a girl. Not a problem. If the other girl is never mentioned again, I’d keep it very brief. “Of course, she became a lesbian… but I didn’t” is all you need, or even less. Not sure the lesbianism even needs to be there, but it’s not my story.

Q2: personally, as a reader, you’d lose me after part 1. I have certain beliefs about lit stories: every submission ought to have an orgasm is one of those, and another is that if the MCs are going to get physical, it needs to happen within the first 10k words.

Again, those are just my beliefs. But they are a reason I tend to avoid chaptered works, honestly. That first chapter is very often too slow a burn for me.

 

[lovecraft68]

Q1: mention she kissed for practice with a girl. Not a problem. If the other girl is never mentioned again, I’d keep it very brief. “Of course, she became a lesbian… but I didn’t” is all you need, or even less. Not sure the lesbianism even needs to be there, but it’s not my story.

Q2: personally, as a reader, you’d lose me after part 1. I have certain beliefs about lit stories: every submission ought to have an orgasm is one of those, and another is that if the MCs are going to get physical, it needs to happen within the first 10k words.

Again, those are just my beliefs. But they are a reason I tend to avoid chaptered works, honestly. That first chapter is very often too slow a burn for me.

We all have our tastes and quirks. The OP lost me at Mind Control. They mention ethical questions, I don't think of it in those terms its fiction, but I don't read rape stories of any kind and MC does not have consent.

But like I said, that's me, not looking for anyone to agree or disagree.

 

[NotWise]

1) You can say that it happened, but you can't describe the event.

2) Not at all familiar with MC. In general, if you have good characters and a good story then you can make it clear that it's chapter 1 and people will look immediately for chapter 2. You should have them all written before you publish the first.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I don't participate in the mind control category, as a reader or a writer, so the tolerance for little or no sex is not something that I can address there. However, as demonstrated in other categories here, a well written tale with no erotic content can be quite successful with readers.

That being said, If you fear losing readers from one part of your story to another, don't submit parts. Wait until the story is complete and then submit it. Readers will get invested in it more fully that way and be less likely to bail on it.

 

[Bamagan]

I have two questions for the hive mind.

Background:

I am writing a three part story right now. I was expecting about 20K per chapter, but as I am finishing the first chapter, it will probably be closer to 30. My original intent was to write an ethical Mind Control story, somewhat inspired by the thread a month or two ago.

Chapter 1: the MMC, a nice kid, but largely inexperienced (obviously because he is nice ) college student, gains mind reading ability at the same time he meets the girl of his dreams, using his extra knowledge to help in his courting. He has some qualms about what he is doing. Things do not get as far as penetrative sex; FMC is prudish, kissing him 18K in was her first kiss*

Chapter 2: MMC learns that he can insert ideas when he inadvertently gives FMC a dream that she wants to show her body off to him. He is horrified/intrigued that he can do this, but does it a few more times (not to her) for "Good" FMC and MMC have sex, willingly.

Chapter 3: MMC discovers that when he is really intense, he can perform classic mind control, discovering this when he makes FMC start giving him oral. As soon as he realized what he is doing, he stops it. He then uses in anger against someone bullying FMC. He is terrified of what he might do when he suddenly loses his powers altogether. And then happily ever after.

My plan is to finish drafts of all three first and then publish each chapter as I finish the editing on it.


Questions:

1) *FMC kissing him is not actually her first kiss. Summer before tenth grade, so under age, her best friend (female) convinces her that they should practice kissing so they will know what it's like. Friend actually was hoping for more than kisses and came out of the closet a few years later. How far into discussing that incident can I go without incurring the wrath of underage rule? It is a notable character development moment for FMC. But I don't want the story bounced because of it. I f I have to, I have thought about giving a minimal reference, including a comment, "but that's a story for another time and another site." someone as a poke, but I might be poking the bear with that one. If I go the full route and it bounces, I don't think I would have the guts to include the jab.

Am I over worrying about this? Advice from anyone who pushes the boundaries at all?

2) I am kind of thinking chapter 1 will get shredded in MC, having no full on sex (the hottest part it is him telepathically eaves dropping on her masturbating) and lacking true mind control, just telepathyl. I am starting to winder if I should edge this one more towards Romance and then put chapters 2 and 3 in MC. I know 2 and 3 may also get trashed in MC because I am raising the ethical questions in it, but that is as it is. It will have two different kinds of mind control and actual sex, so maybe people will be happy with it.

I know the standard answer is to wait until it's done and see where it fits, but I can tune this chapter towards either direction. I don't have to make my mind up until I finish everything, but I don't want to tune it one way and then have to rewrite significant chunks for the other.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

For question one, I'm not sure you need to mention it much, maybe not even at all. It doesn't sound like you're planning to develop either the girl she kissed with or any latent attraction to women, so it's quite possibly character development that isn't serving the narrative. Leading your readers down a cul-de-sac might convince them you're a bad navigator.

For question two, I don't think it's likely to get shredded, if by that you mean generate lots of negative commentary in the style of LW. There are a handful of native trolls, since it's a niche fetish that some people hate, but most of the regular commenters I encountered were fine. If there's little to no spice in 30k words, it will probably just kind of fizzle. That being said, there's no particular reason that telepathic voyeurism can't be written hotly, and him 'seeing' her sexy private times might scratch the itch of the fetish. Given how slowly developing their physical relationship is, giving her some naughty fantasies for him to witness might be a way to add some spice.

As for the later parts raising ethical questions, that's not actually uncommon in the category (not the majority, certainly, but not rare). As long as it isn't a thinly veiled attempt at kink-shaming the readers, it would probably be fine.

 

[AlinaX]

We all have our tastes and quirks. The OP lost me at Mind Control. They mention ethical questions, I don't think of it in those terms its fiction, but I don't read rape stories of any kind and MC does not have consent.

But like I said, that's me, not looking for anyone to agree or disagree.

That's very dismissive. There's a huge difference between wanting something to happen and making something happen. Discovering that your wants have real power means learning to control your thoughts if you respect consent, and that learning process will not be an immediate thing.

Take you, for example. What if you discovered the people in your life were indulging more and more in secret incestuous relationships, and that it was your own idle imagination driving them to do so? What if the very attempt to rein in your own thoughts merely provoked more sinister variations?

Mind Control stories are fascinating when the main character does not have full control over the ability.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I don't have any experience pushing the line for question #1. But if it were me, I would have her tell the story from first person in dialogue with just a vague allusion to "when I was younger" and leave the actual ages unstated.

I am starting to winder if I should edge this one more towards Romance and then put chapters 2 and 3 in MC.

Does not seem like a good idea if your objective is to get people to read the whole thing. That will pretty much insure nobody except maybe some of your followers will.

I second just putting it all in 1 submission.

I also think, based on what you describe, that the MC elements are tame enough that the whole thing could probably go into Romance, given how you're planning to end it. You're splitting the difference either way, and as you say there's some chance of irritating either group with the approach. In any case, I think it isn't a good idea to split the chapters between categories.

 

[iwatchus]

I second just putting it all in 1 submission.

If the first chapter is approaching 30K, I think the whole thing will be nearing 100K. So I still think I will still split but I guess all in MC.

 

[StillStunned]

I recognised her as soon as she walked into my treatment room. Tammy Allen, visiting the spa where I worked and coming to me for a massage. All through the last two years of school she'd lived in my dreams and made my life a nightmare. She was the one who gave me the nickname Lezzica. From Jessica.

And from that one time I kissed her, and she kissed me back, and we giggled, and then did it some more, and it felt right and thrilling and it confirmed to me that this was what I wanted. And then the next day she told everyone I'd assaulted her and that wonderful moment became all twisted up in the horror of teenage bullying and teenage shame and years of loneliness and anxiety and... Well, all of it.

- from Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya

This was approved with no problems. I think a big factor is that it's presented as an emotional moment, not an erotic one.

 

[lovecraft68]

That's very dismissive. There's a huge difference between wanting something to happen and making something happen. Discovering that your wants have real power means learning to control your thoughts if you respect consent, and that learning process will not be an immediate thing.

Take you, for example. What if you discovered the people in your life were indulging more and more in secret incestuous relationships, and that it was your own idle imagination driving them to do so? What if the very attempt to rein in your own thoughts merely provoked more sinister variations?

Mind Control stories are fascinating when the main character does not have full control over the ability.

Is the incest consensual? If so, who cares?

This is the age old argument between NC fans who loath I/T and try to say it's worse than rape because they need to not feel like the most extreme kink fans here. Honor among thieves of sorts?

Now, I'll do this for you. NC and I/T are what I call 'crime kinks" both should not be practiced in reality. Now why? Rape is self explanatory. But look at incest. Usually, incest in real life is not like the example you tried to get me with, it's almost always a form of abuse in fact it's usually....rape.

Hmmm.

To be clear, I'm not kink shaming, this is all fiction and I don't buy into any story here is responsible for a real life event. This gets into things like rock music is satanic and D&D leads to suicide, the Matrix was why Columbine happened and all manner of blaming everything but the person.

NC is not my thing, but it doesn't have to be. My issue is the steadfast refusal of people to admit MC is the purest form of Non con and rape, if not a roofie wouldn't be the crime of date rape.

Consent is not a gray area, abusers and rapists push that shit. So again, if NC is your kink have at it. But the "well its...: No, its not. No is no. That especially goes for the movement of sadists trying to say that Consent is no longer needed in BDSM. Think about that, try explaining to a cop how the woman told you no, but you didn't need her consent. This is real life I'm talking about, its already a given in the sorry excuse for a BDSM category here that that's the case.

Story or real-life consent is not malleable for convenance, and iin the case of fiction it doesn't have to be.

Just a case of people not owning their kink. Like people who say they're not in bestiality because the dog in the story had two heads.

 

[SimonDoom]

I agree with a lot that's already been said, but I will add my own personal wrinkle to what Voboy wrote. I share the same taste and generally do not want to read stories that take too long to get to the sex. I prefer stories that enthusiastically embrace their erotic subject, perversities and warts and all, rather than trying to navigate around the "objectionable" stuff.

But that's just me, and others who think like me. You should feel free to explore erotica the way you want to. You may get some who don't like it and some who do. My advice is that to the extent you tailor your stories to reader tastes, focus on those who LIKE what you do and ignore those who don't.

 

[AlinaX]

Is the incest consensual? If so, who cares?

If you’re not actually going to read what I wrote, just say so, or say nothing.

 

[dirk2024]

If the first chapter is approaching 30K, I think the whole thing will be nearing 100K. So I still think I will still split but I guess all in MC.

For a different perspective. - We read here in the AH about how a story should be complete, even if its loooong, rather than multi-chaptered. Personally, I prefer the multichaptered stories. The only reason why I may stop reading a series is if the plot line becomes boring, which could happen in a 100k word story too. But writers like @BreakTheBar write multi-chaptered series and maintain my interest throughout the series, and wait for new chapters.

If I see a story that is more than 10 Lit pages long, then I'm unlikely to read it. It must have a high ranking for me to jump in. I rarely can devote that much time to reading all at once, so I have to remember where I was when I log out, then go back to pick up where I left off after I log in again. I don't know why I feel this way on Literotica. I read other (non-erotic) books on my Kindle (which is where I read Lit at night) and don't feel this issue. It just seems easier with chaptered books versus unchaptered books.

 

[iwatchus]

For a different perspective. - We read here in the AH about how a story should be complete, even if its loooong, rather than multi-chaptered. Personally, I prefer the multichaptered stories. The only reason why I may stop reading a series is if the plot line becomes boring, which could happen in a 100k word story too. But writers like @BreakTheBar write multi-chaptered series and maintain my interest throughout the series, and wait for new chapters.

If I see a story that is more than 10 Lit pages long, then I'm unlikely to read it. It must have a high ranking for me to jump in. I rarely can devote that much time to reading all at once, so I have to remember where I was when I log out, then go back to pick up where I left off after I log in again. I don't know why I feel this way on Literotica. I read other (non-erotic) books on my Kindle (which is where I read Lit at night) and don't feel this issue. It just seems easier with chaptered books versus unchaptered books.

I wrote a series which was 21 stories, averaging about 15K each (roughly 5 lit pages). Of course, the chapter lengths varied a lot. But that worked well. The fit an overall narrative, but each story had a nice arc within it. Most of my recent stories have been in the 20-25k range, which I needed to tell a complete story with characters. I did write a recent series with very short chapters (4k each, roughly) because that is what that story arc needed.

I was thinking I could break this up into three 20K stories when I roughed the concept out, but my draft became much longer and I am not sure where the good story breaks are to break it up. I have decided to submit it to N&N rather than a traditional series in come other category (MC or Romance). Once it is closer to completion, I will figure out if and where I will break it up into parts.

 

[GrantBricksly]

So, for question 1: A brief mention is good. Just don't describe the event. Make sure you make good use of the mention though. If you need that moment to develop the character, go for it. If you can make do without it, then better to steer clear. There are other ways to make it clear that she is not a novice when it comes to kissing, and even that she has been with a woman, if you want to go that route, without having to mention a pre-adult activity.

Question 2: While I've not dealt with the category of Mind Control, I can tell you, that if you've written a well thought out and properly developed story, a lack of sex shouldn't be an issue. If you are super concerned about it, make sure the next chapter (that includes sex) is finished and ready to post before you post the first, that way when they finish chapter one, they can move right into chapter two. You could also put a little note at the beginning, letting the readers know that it will be a slow start. I've seen that plenty of times, and I've always appreciated the heads up. Sometimes I'm really in the mood for a quick thing, other times I want to really dig my mind into something good and deep.

Either way, write what you want, the way you want it. And if the readers don't like it...well...at least you put your heart into it.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

This sounds more like ScFi and Telepaths. That lets you take it in other directions of ethics, especially if the Telepath is a different species.