Truth? I'll settle for facts, but...would Hitler have?

[mismused]

******

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sweetie, as far as general usage goes, 'facts' and 'Truth' are antonyms. Especially when 'Truth' is capitalised.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Again, I'm simply a student who loves to learn. I quit aspiring for the truth long ago, and am instead looking high and low for facts. We have such a fantastic availability of resources for that, but alas, we too seldom use them.

So, what about Hitler?

Let's see, he was mystified by the esoteric, what was hidden knowledge, sort of looking for the alchemy of anything that would lead him to whatever his little heart desired.

One of those things was purifying the race of Germans (or whatever he felt he was, or wanted to be). He hit on the Aryans, and thus his quest began. Get rid of the Jews. They pollute us.

Hmm! Gee, what would he have done if he had found out that Jews were most likely Aryans?

Uh, are/were they? Aryans, that is. You know, the Jews...yeah, that they're Aryans. Or is it Hittites, or both, or whichever came first?

As I said, wondering, reading, going wherever it leads you can be very interesting.

Happy reading everyone. I wish you all peace, and I wish you all love.

"Aryans" are a language group that provided the roots of all the major European languages as well as Sanscrit in India. Hebrew is a member of the language group entitled Semites, along with Arabic, Berber and others. Jews are not Aryans.

None of this has any thing to do with race. Hitler imagined his ideal Aryan Race to be tall and blond. He was short and, like most Germans, dark. Self-delusion is a wonderful thing.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Interesting question. I gave up looking for truth long ago. All I go on now is my instinctive response to a given thing/idea/concept. It can't be quantified or explained. It's just a feeling in my stomach I go with.

 

[CharleyH]

Again, I'm simply a student who loves to learn. I quit aspiring for the truth long ago, and am instead looking high and low for facts. We have such a fantastic availability of resources for that, but alas, we too seldom use them.

So, what about Hitler?

Let's see, he was mystified by the esoteric, what was hidden knowledge, sort of looking for the alchemy of anything that would lead him to whatever his little heart desired.

One of those things was purifying the race of Germans (or whatever he felt he was, or wanted to be). He hit on the Aryans, and thus his quest began. Get rid of the Jews. They pollute us.

Hmm! Gee, what would he have done if he had found out that Jews were most likely Aryans?

Uh, are/were they? Aryans, that is. You know, the Jews...yeah, that they're Aryans. Or is it Hittites, or both, or whichever came first?

As I said, wondering, reading, going wherever it leads you can be very interesting.

Happy reading everyone. I wish you all peace, and I wish you all love.

As I read in a recent blog? The answer is cats. http://stuffgodhates.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/20-cats/

More seriously ... we will never know what was in Hitler's mind. I would like to touch on something here, though. Americans always seem to think they were the catalysts that broke WW2's back. Frankly? I don't think the U.S. would have entered the war without Pearl Harbour and I am not certain the U.S. was responsible for ending the war or even really freeing the jews. In my opinion of history, the Americans were posers. Americans are still posers -*see Iraq*.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Charley, that would be one of those 'Truth' versus 'Fact' things.

 

[mismused]

******

 

[CharleyH]

Charley, that would be one of those 'Truth' versus 'Fact' things.

Indeed, Stell.

 

[Boxlicker101]

There are facts and there are true facts. To state a fact is to say something that is not untrue and is not just an opinion. However, facts can often hide the actual truth and can mislead. If I were to say "It was never proven that John Smith murdered his wife" a person might draw the conclusion that John Smith got away with murdering his wife, even though I didn't say that. It would be a fact, but not a true fact, because the true fact is that John Smith's wife is alive and well.

To use a more familiar example, suppose I were to say: "President Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about sex." This would be a fact, because it does not contradict the truth, but it would actually be misleading. A person who was not aware of the true facts might wonder how a president can be impeached for doing something that everybody does. The true fact is that Clinton was impeached for perjury, a felony and a serious breach of the law, expecially for a person who is a lawyer, and the perjury was about sex.

I',m really not trying to beat a dead horse here; I just want to use an example that is familiar to everybody.

 

[CharleyH]

Uhhhm, yeah, heard that some time ago, but...

Stella: Capital because it's proper form to start out when writing, but whatever.

Charley: Hi, gorgeous. Could only get some pics, then a blank screen. Sowwy.

A long awaited French kiss is due. Sorry you did not get the link - it's hilarious. Quote, "It was a cat who convinced Adolph Hitler to kill My Jews (and to wear a mustache)." If ONLY you could see the pic of the kitty with a Hitler moustache. ROFLOL. Good post love, but better to just see and hear you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

No, my point is that many believers in Truth spell it with a capital T no matter where it is in the sentence...

It wasn't meant to be a reflection on you, love.

 

[amicus]

Hello Mismused....not that you, or anyone else for that matter...will pay a lick of attention to my musings...

Again, I'm simply a student who loves to learn. I quit aspiring for the truth long ago, and am instead looking high and low for facts.

An old Greek once said, I paraphrase, "Learning is the most enjoyable thing a human can do..."

Thus, a 'love of learning' as you stated, is an excellent beginning point.

The second most important step, is to define your terms. What is the definition of truth? Reality? Objective? Real? Honesty? Integrity?

The neat thing about the words and their definitions, is that if you search one, either dictionary or encyclopedia, you find the others referenced in the definition and soon learn the connections and the roots of all.

The major and fatal flaw of modern liberal thinkers is to accept the premise that all truth is relative. A total dead end for the learning process.

Ami...

 

[CharleyH]

No, my point is that many believers in Truth spell it with a capital T no matter where it is in the sentence...

It wasn't meant to be a reflection on you, love.

You talkin' to me? Talkin? Talkin to ME? lol I know you aren't, but I just wanted to pretend I was Robert De Niro for a second. Mm. FELT GREAT! Thanks!

 

[Stella_Omega]

You talkin' to me? Talkin? Talkin to ME? lol I know you aren't, but I just wanted to pretend I was Robert De Niro for a second. Mm. FELT GREAT! Thanks!

Wanna pretend to be Marlon Brando next?

 

[mismused]

******

 

[rgraham666]

Time to insert a little Diderot.

You can divide facts into three types: the divine, the natural and man-made. The first belongs to theology, the second to philosophy and the third to history. All are equally open to question.

As far as Hitler goes, his inferiority complex really got out of control, didn't it?

 

[where]

He was short and, like most Germans, dark.

pedant alert: I think he was Austrian

 

[where]

Time to insert a little Diderot.

I so misread that!

 

[rgraham666]

I so misread that!

(Laughs)

 

[oggbashan]

Did Hitler really believe that the Jews were vermin or were they a convenient political scapegoat?

Did Hitler really believe in anything except his own intuition?

Og

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, babe, sorry I missed it. My compy has been the butt of several pseudo jokes in being a cheapy that don't get nuthin. *Sigh!*

Let's see if I can stir the pot some more.

Uh-huh, Aryans fathered a "language," or did they? Did they even have a language, or was it just Akkadian stolen for want of a language?

Well, "Aryan" was a name given to what we now call "Proto Indo-European language." This language is hypothetical, but pretty well supported by language usage.
Akkadian came much later-- and, in fact, derives from P.I.E.

Well, that's a kind of aside (as I said, reading and learning is fascinating), but what's a fact, and what isn't?

Let's see, BRAHmin, ABRAHam. Any more anomolies like that out there? Supposedly a resounding YES. If so, and there is a connection, that the northern Hittites/Aryans took the language (and their iron swords and chariots), and overran many places like India, Mesapotamia, Egypt, and Abraham was a Hittite/Aryan, what would Hitler have thought if he'd found out he was gassing his heros?
:

The 'aryan race' (I.E, the humans that came through the Indus valley towards Europe) stems from India.

Hitler KNEW who he was gassing. He claimed that the Jews were a degraded version of the Aryans, no longer fit to carry the torch forward. He said that their dark coloring was proof that they'd mongrelised.

Here's a very good overview by Cecil Adams of "Straight Dope" Clickies

 

[mismused]

******

 

[bisexualsmoker]

Sometimes the best way of finding the truth is sifting
through all the lies.It seems you can learn a little
bit more that way.Better than waiting around for it.
Of course Hitler was delusional.He thought he
could run the German Army too.Had the German
Generals been unimpeeded in doing they're jobs,
they probably would have won world war 2.

 

[WRJames]

There have been several shows on the History Channel about the origins of the Nazi philosophy.

The the late nineteenth century, there was a mystic (or medium) named Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. She founded a movement call Theosophy, which gained wide popularity. Here is the Wikipedia article on the subject. The notion of Semitic corruption of Aryan purity is an integral part of Theosophy. It should be noted that this was a very respecable movement, with adherents like Mark Twain.

Social Darwinism was also a strong movement in the late nineteenth century.

Nietzche was a prominent German philosopher at the time who was attempting to develop a post Christian spirituality (he is probaby most famous for Thus Spake Zarathustra, which I actually read once -- the Richard Strauss tone poem was made famous by 2001: A Space Odyssey) Anyway -- his concept of a "superman" combined with the Aryan crap from Ms Blavatsky, and some German mysticism -- all of these contibuted to the Nazi brew.

Although it may seem totally bizarre now, there were a lot of respected minds interested in Theosophy -- see the Wikipedia article. You would think that people at the time would have been saying that it was all complete bullshit, but apparently not.

It should be noted that Hitler did not invent Nazism, nor was he really that instrumental in its intellectual(?) evolution. He was a very enthusiastic convert.

 

[amicus]

Damn, I love this forum!

Thanks WRJ!

ami