Trust, Proving Your Point

[TigerClaw]

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[caela]

Hmmmm, well I have made comments like this myself though I didn't mean that I wouldn't trust a person who had proven me wrong on a subject. Perhaps what the person you were talking to meant ( and I usually mean ) is that I will not trust a person who has proven that it is wrong for me TO trust them.

 

[vogueboy]

Well, I certainly would trust that person for their honesty in correcting me.

It shows me that the person has integrity and I would value their opinion, even if they themselves are corrected.

I value Honesty above truth all of the time.

Truth is per-ception or de-ception.

 

[TigerClaw]

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[TigerClaw]

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[vogueboy]

I agree, unless the person thought that it was more important to be Right in everyone elses' eyes.

Just so they can prove to everyone that they are trying to be a Know-it-all.

And you are correct, I don't see how it could be taken in a bad light, if that person is not over compensating for their lack of self-confidence.

 

[kitty4ever]

Like you, I'd be confused. Why wouldn't I continue to trust someone who proved me wrong? I'm fallible. I make mistakes.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Trust is such a murky waters thing in that all people seem to experience it differently, and also sometimes what is or is not may not be as it seems. I am often told I am too trusting, I am often told I trust no-one....truth is I have come to a point where I don't even think about it during the first stages of getting to know someone, and that may take a long time. I tend to leave it as an open book to be written in, but don't look overly much whether anything has been written until it stands out in bold print. Even then, I usually keep an open mind on whether to trust that person or not. I tend to give trust more than take it away, but also realise that sometimes we all FU, sometimes we do things which may appear one way but are another but no less valid or without reason. Foolishly, I often allow someone who has betrayed my trust to abuse it again and again, but overall I feel healthier doing that than being filled with feelings of resentment, wariness, caution, trepidation when interacting with that person. Strange I know, and even I cannot fathom why I am this way....it does help in my Buddhism though.

Catalina

 

[TigerClaw]

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[TigerClaw]

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[catalina_francisco]

If you dont trust you will not let anyone in. You have to give some trust which will allow you to get hurt or disappointed. I think some caution has to be used as you give trust. Red flags have to be noted. If you are aware of them and they do break the trust youve at least have been warned. Ignoring those flags completely is where you can really get hurt.
Could you be that way because you try to see good in People?

Not sure I try to see the good in people or that as long as I can remember I have been able to accept most people for who they are and not look for what they will do for me. If I help another person, though it is nice if the favour is returned when you need it, I do not help with that expectation in mind, nor do I think it is a given or motivation which sits well with me when offering help. If someone returns the favour I am pleasantly surprised, if not I am not filled with resentment.

Similarly, if someone does something to hurt or undermine me, though I am aware of what they have done, I am more likely to choose to overlook it than hold onto it and take the stance I will punish them by no longer associating with them. I have been known to hold out a hand to save some of my, in the words of others, worst enemies. I cannot explain it, and I can and have been hurt deeply, and I can react to the moment, but I can't think of anyone I have felt the need to premanently cut from my existance or think of as evil and bad though some have done some fairly horrific things to me. It takes so much energy to be consumed by those emotions,

Maybe it is a confidence I have developed in that I have survived against odds many are astounded by....maybe it is a need to not be filled with negativeness. I do know when I first discovered Buddhism it was a good feeling to know there were others who felt the same.

Catalina

 

[shy slave]

Well, I certainly would trust that person for their honesty in correcting me.

It shows me that the person has integrity and I would value their opinion, even if they themselves are corrected.

I value Honesty above truth all of the time.

Truth is per-ception or de-ception.

This makes sense to me.

Everyone is fallible, honesty is a part of trusting another.

I stop trusting someone when they appear to be mean in spirit.

By that I mean if they continually & deliberately say and do things that emotionally hurt others.

 

[FungiUg]

I had someone casually tell me that they dont trust someone who proves them wrong. I find that statement curious. Does any one else feel that way?

Wow, serious topic in the Cafe!

I can believe that there are people like that. But I know that I am often wrong (and often told as much), and I expect people to be open and willing to have their ideas challenged, because I myself am open to being challenged.

Of course, I'm often wrong about that too!

A workmate has a partner who apparently HAS to be right all of the time, and it drives her nuts. I suppose this is part of the same thing.

 

[TigerClaw]

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[TigerClaw]

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[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Trust, Proving Your Point

Now that can be made into a different topic.

Well, I think it's related to the same topic. When someone "proves you wrong", they have challenged what you believe. And it often IS a challenge. After all, what motivates people to prove you wrong? Normally it's an overwhelming urge to "be right", rather than a selfless motivation to correct someone who they respect.

I think part of growing up is learning to respect people, INCLUDING their faults. Rather than being disillusioned about someone because they have the faults in the first place. We all have faults, after all.

So someone who can't accept that other people know they are wrong and can even go so far as to "prove" it... well, I would say that person would be someone I couldn't trust.

 

[graceanne]

Re: Re: Re: Trust, Proving Your Point

Now that can be made into a different topic. Challenging someones beliefs. Not aggressively but in play or conversation. I find that this works when you have a little more then basic trust and respect for someone.

I know a woman that I can take the most extreme position in opposition to her and we enjoy that banter back and forth. It start out as play and often is. Sometimes it strikes a cord and really makes you think about your position on things.

I know what you mean. I call it playing devils advocate. You can only do it with some people, but it's fun to see how well people know their facts. Me and my dad like to do that, just for kicks. But it's also great for me, cause it gives me a chance to overview what I believe.

 

[TigerClaw]

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[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust, Proving Your Point

I call it playing devils advocate.

Agreed. And you can seriously screw with someone's mind if you do it right!

 

[TigerClaw]

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[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Trust, Proving Your Point

It is related but can go a lot deeper. I can not go into detail but WOW. I will say I disagree but I can see your point in every day life.

Okay. There's obviously some background that I am missing, and hence I am also missing the depth of the difference.

I can't imagine NOT trusting someone who proved me wrong though. I CAN imagine not trusting someone who isn't willing to be proved wrong.

 

[TigerClaw]

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[TigerClaw]

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[A Desert Rose]

Imagine one person in a conversation teaching. The other as you state in your post who believes in their belief and is not open to change. Not trusting. Not respecting the other.

They are going to misinterpret that as thay had to prove I was wrong. They are not accepting who I am, faults included as you state.

When two people such as this meets and do not understand what the other is doing or feeling the conversations can disintergrate.

The conversation does not need to disintegrate as long as it's a conversation and not a confrontation.

In a conversation, people state views... not absolutes.

 

[FungiUg]

When two people such as this meets and do not understand what the other is doing or feeling the conversations can disintergrate.

Oh god, and in a BAD way. It's not pleasant. I had to pick up the pieces of my workmate a week or so ago after that happened with a friend of hers and her partner.