Trouble Writing A 2nd Language into Story

[Mind_Visions]

Hello,

I'm writing a story where a man transforms into a woman. At one point, the man (now a woman) is able to speak fluent Russian. I'm having trouble with how to include the two languages in the narrative. The story is mainly written in English for English readers and is told in 3rd person omniscient.

The other character speaks fluent English and Russian, so initially both characters start off speaking in English. I'm trying to show the transformee (I know, not a word) suddenly being able to speak/understand Russian perfectly when the other character begins speaking in Russian. And yes, I'm using Google Translate since I don't speak Russian myself.

Initially I tried having the character say their dialogue in Russian followed by the English translation in parentheses (like subtitles in a movie) such as:

YA pokazhu vam, kak my eto delayem v Rossii. (I will show you how we do it in Russia.)

But it seems too clunky and interrupts the flow, even though the verbal exchange only lasts for half a chapter. It also makes it awkward if dialogue tags are attached to the Russian sentence.

Or is it better for the narrator to just state: 'Unbeknownst to him, he was now speaking and understanding Russian fluently.'
and then indicate that he and the other character were both only speaking in Russian after that point?

The other thought was having the first few dialogue exchanges between the characters with the English subtitles following the Russian dialogue (as above), followed by the narrator stating the two characters were now speaking only Russian with each other and trusting that the reader will understand.

How do other authors here deal with this kind of dual-language situation?

Any and all help is much appreciated.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Firstly, it's a terrible idea to include text from a language you don't speak in your story. There will be mistakes, and you will be told about them.

I think I can make that as a kind of universal statement, which is less about what I personally want to see in a story. More a personal view would be that I don't think it's great to include a foreign language of any kind in an English story. I nominally learned French in school, but not very well. I do speak and read Mandarin to an almost reasonable level. I have no Spanish. On the other hand, many Americans, for example, speak high-school-level Spanish (and whatever else). I read a fair number of stories that have Spanish sentences in them and an apparent assumption that the reader can figure out the basics. I've also read stories where the writer has included Mandarin with the apparent assumption that the reader (like the MC) is going to be stumped by it.

The point is that it creates a divide where, instead of focusing on what the MC knows, the story is suddenly reliant on what the reader knows.

If the character doesn't speak Russian, when they hear Russian just say something like "The girl whispered something in my ear. It sounded sexy. I really wished I knew what it was."
If the character does speak Russian..."Hey Ivan, how have you been you old son-of-a-bitch?" I said, greeting my old friend in his native tongue.

In your magic case, if the character doesn't speak Russian and is experiences it as English, don't say anything until the character makes that connection...

It suddenly hit me. I was in Red Square and I hadn't seen a single letter of the cyrillic alphabet. Everything was in English. And, more to the point, everyone spoke English. And they didn't just speak English with a Russian accent. They were native level. Every single one. Svetlana spoke with a Geordie accent. Why the fuck would Svetlana be a Geordie?

 

[Voboy]

Firstly, it's a terrible idea to include text from a language you don't speak in your story. There will be mistakes, and you will be told about them.

This.

When I include other languages in my stories, if they're not German (which I speak somewhat), I never use more than about two or three words in a row and then I check five or six sources to make sure they mean what Google Translate thinks they mean. Then, I make it clear from context what those words are supposed to be, or I have a character translate them in their head (in italics). But that's in FP, where it flows naturally.

Frankly, OP (and only since you ask for advice), I think this is a cumbersome and confusing premise that's nearly guaranteed to result in a mess unless you handle it very, very deftly. As I recall, Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead includes a section like what you're describing, where the Arab traveler realizes he can understand the Norsemen around him. Might want to check the book out and see how he does it.

I'd be inclined to do the whole thing in colloquial English, but include a third character nearby who is suddenly confused when the MC starts speaking Russian. Make their confusion a part of the story, while clarifying to the readers that the MC is surprised she's now speaking Russian. Include humor.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Ya pokazhu vam, kak my eto delayem v Rossii. (I will show you how we do it in Russia.)

But it seems too clunky and interrupts the flow, even though the verbal exchange only

Do that once, to establish that the character is now fluent in Russian, and let context establish the rest. I'd go the extra step and write the Russian sentence in Cyrillic, then the English translation. But for the remainder of the dialogue, I'd keep the dialogue in English for both characters.

Perhaps you could find a slight quirk of Russian grammar that's different to English, and give that to your Russian. Keep it light and subtle though, you don't need a two by four. Readers are clever, they'll figure it out with just the lightest of guidance.

I did it like this, with a Russia character:

Delilah looked up at me. She was bedraggled, yet her eyes smiled. "You're a kind man, Adam. First you offer me a seat in the morning, but I'm silly, I don't take it. Then you wait with me on a bench under a tree, and we talk about this and that..."

And you blew me a kiss.

"And now it is cold, and you give me your jacket to be warm."

As she spoke, I realised something about Delilah, the way she talked. She had a slight accent, a very precise way with her words, a non English lilt to her speech. She wasn't a native English speaker, Slavic maybe, or east European. My mind suddenly flashed back several decades, remembering a Russian girl on a train, a blonde woman from Leningrad going west to model, to be in magazines.

"You are a proper gentleman, Adam. And I will look neat in your jacket."

 

[NuclearFairy]

I have characters in a work in progress that speak Spanish, however it's different because they're aware that they're speaking Spanish. Like was suggested above unless you're narrating from an omniscient viewpoint don't differentiate it at all would be my suggestion until after the character has realized that it's another language they're suddenly speaking.

It took much internal debate with myself to decide what to do in that situation, I eventually decided to italicize when they're speaking Spanish while writing it in English, and even then I have a Spanish friend that I have help me go over the dialog to make sure it sounds like something an old Spanish man would say. Because culture affects how people speak, especially when speaking their native language. So even if you have it translated, you might still benefit from finding a Russian friend to help you with the dialog.

 

[Voboy]

Another idea is to handle it like Hemingway does in For Whom The Bell Tolls. The whole thing is basically in English, but when the speakers are meant to be doing so in Spanish, the grammar and syntax change in a way that approximates colloquial Spanish. It's meant to be jarring to the reader, but understandable.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

You can use italics to indicate a foreign language has been spoken pretty easily and it shouldn’t be too jarring.

“Excuse me,” I said, switching to my flawless Russian. “Can you tell me where the campus is?”

“Sorry,” the man said responding to me in English. “I don’t speak Klingon.”

 

[Bramblethorn]

"Would you like some cabbage soup?" he heard her say.

"Sure, I've always wanted to try that," he replied. It did not register with him that what she'd actually said was "Хотите щи?", a sentence he shouldn't have been able to understand, nor that he had somehow replied with "Конечно, я всегда хотел это попробовать."

"After that," she continued, still in Russian, "I was thinking we could go see the new Leningrad Cowboys movie."

...and from there, just present the dialogue in English translation without further comment.

(Disclaimer: Russian in that example is unchecked autotranslation, if at all possible get a native speaker to eyeball that kind of thing.)

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Perhaps you could find a slight quirk of Russian grammar that's different to English, and give that to your Russian. Keep it light and subtle though, you don't need a two by four. Readers are clever, they'll figure it out with just the lightest of guidance.

No indefinite articles. A Russian who speaks English as a second language often says things like, "I would like hamburger and fries" (instead of "I would like a hamburger and fries").

--Annie

 

[Jorunn]

Perhaps earlier in the story, have the bilingual person say a Russian phrase or idioms, to which the English speaker says “huh?” This establishes the inability to speak Russian.

At the moment of transition, have the bilingual person say a Russia phrase or idiom, to which the English speaker casually comments on or answers. Make it sound like a moment of surprise.

Then use the omnipresent power to say they began fluently conversing in Russian. Follow up with:

XYZ, speaking perfect Russia, asked, “How is this possible?”

 

[WCSGarland]

I handled it differently in Are We Not Canvas? - Sofia - one of the MCs kept slipping into French, and another MC told her to use English which the MC supposedly knew perfectly well but the other characters did not know.

 

[ronde]

Firstly, it's a terrible idea to include text from a language you don't speak in your story. There will be mistakes, and you will be told about them.

I think I can make that as a kind of universal statement, which is less about what I personally want to see in a story. More a personal view would be that I don't think it's great to include a foreign language of any kind in an English story. I nominally learned French in school, but not very well. I do speak and read Mandarin to an almost reasonable level. I have no Spanish. On the other hand, many Americans, for example, speak high-school-level Spanish (and whatever else). I read a fair number of stories that have Spanish sentences in them and an apparent assumption that the reader can figure out the basics. I've also read stories where the writer has included Mandarin with the apparent assumption that the reader (like the MC) is going to be stumped by it.

The point is that it creates a divide where, instead of focusing on what the MC knows, the story is suddenly reliant on what the reader knows.

If the character doesn't speak Russian, when they hear Russian just say something like "The girl whispered something in my ear. It sounded sexy. I really wished I knew what it was."
If the character does speak Russian..."Hey Ivan, how have you been you old son-of-a-bitch?" I said, greeting my old friend in his native tongue.

In your magic case, if the character doesn't speak Russian and is experiences it as English, don't say anything until the character makes that connection...

It suddenly hit me. I was in Red Square and I hadn't seen a single letter of the cyrillic alphabet. Everything was in English. And, more to the point, everyone spoke English. And they didn't just speak English with a Russian accent. They were native level. Every single one. Svetlana spoke with a Geordie accent. Why the fuck would Svetlana be a Geordie?

I don't think it's a terrible idea to include text of another language even if the author doesn't speak the language. It's a way to add interest to the story and to show differences in a character's background.

There are pitfalls of using a phrase book or Google. For instance, Google seems the have a problem picking the correct gender for the Latin based languages.

There's also the problem of the "national" language and what is actually spoke by native speakers of that language. Any language is full of idioms and regional expressions, so unless from that region, even a native speaker of the language might get it wrong. It would be hard for someone not from the South to interpret, "shopping buggy" or "carrying someone to the doctor", or the statement, "I love Moon-Pies"..

Yes, mistakes will be made and will be pointed out by a native speaker of that language, but most readers won't know what the words mean anyway. That's why there should be an explanation in English for the reader. The way I usually use is to have one character say a like in the language, then have another character ask either the speaker or another speaker of the language to translate.

 

[Mind_Visions]

Firstly, it's a terrible idea to include text from a language you don't speak in your story. There will be mistakes, and you will be told about them.

Good point. The eventual plan was to have any Russian dialogue reviewed by a native speaker of Russian before publishing. I generally trust Google Translate about as much as I trust Google Maps.

If the character doesn't speak Russian, when they hear Russian just say something like "The girl whispered something in my ear. It sounded sexy. I really wished I knew what it was."
If the character does speak Russian..."Hey Ivan, how have you been you old son-of-a-bitch?" I said, greeting my old friend in his native tongue.

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll have to think about how to work that kind of indirect approach into the story.

 

[Mind_Visions]

This.

When I include other languages in my stories, if they're not German (which I speak somewhat), I never use more than about two or three words in a row and then I check five or six sources to make sure they mean what Google Translate thinks they mean. Then, I make it clear from context what those words are supposed to be, or I have a character translate them in their head (in italics). But that's in FP, where it flows naturally.

Yes, I think limiting the number of words makes sense. Just enough to establish the different language and then letting context do the rest.

Frankly, OP (and only since you ask for advice), I think this is a cumbersome and confusing premise that's nearly guaranteed to result in a mess unless you handle it very, very deftly. As I recall, Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead includes a section like what you're describing, where the Arab traveler realizes he can understand the Norsemen around him. Might want to check the book out and see how he does it.

Thanks for the Eaters of the Dead recommendation, I will check it out.

I'd be inclined to do the whole thing in colloquial English, but include a third character nearby who is suddenly confused when the MC starts speaking Russian. Make their confusion a part of the story, while clarifying to the readers that the MC is surprised she's now speaking Russian. Include humor.

I like the idea, I'm not sure I can make it work for this particular scene though. There can only be two characters in the room when the transformation occurs. I will definitely note the technique for future stories though.

Thank you kindly,

 

[Mind_Visions]

Do that once, to establish that the character is now fluent in Russian, and let context establish the rest. I'd go the extra step and write the Russian sentence in Cyrillic, then the English translation. But for the remainder of the dialogue, I'd keep the dialogue in English for both characters.

Perhaps you could find a slight quirk of Russian grammar that's different to English, and give that to your Russian. Keep it light and subtle though, you don't need a two by four. Readers are clever, they'll figure it out with just the lightest of guidance.

I did it like this, with a Russia character:

Thank you those are both great suggestions! I tend to be the "two by four" when writing so I'm working on the subtle approach.

 

[Mind_Visions]

I have characters in a work in progress that speak Spanish, however it's different because they're aware that they're speaking Spanish. Like was suggested above unless you're narrating from an omniscient viewpoint don't differentiate it at all would be my suggestion until after the character has realized that it's another language they're suddenly speaking.

It took much internal debate with myself to decide what to do in that situation, I eventually decided to italicize when they're speaking Spanish while writing it in English, and even then I have a Spanish friend that I have help me go over the dialog to make sure it sounds like something an old Spanish man would say. Because culture affects how people speak, especially when speaking their native language. So even if you have it translated, you might still benefit from finding a Russian friend to help you with the dialog.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm shining to your idea of using italics for the non-English language. That would work much better than my subtitles ideas.

 

[Mind_Visions]

Thank you one and all for your helpful thoughts and suggestions as well as the examples given. It is immensely appreciated. I will see which idea(s) will work with my story.

I was trying to reply to each of your posts (which initially I was able to do) but then I was suddenly unable to reply to individual posts and kept getting an error message.

Hence, a group Thank You!

 

[ChuckWolf]

In comic books, they used to do something like this for foreign text in a word balloon:

*<<Do whatever you have to do to get the code from the American!>>

*Translated from German.