"triangulation"-- what does it mean?

[Pure]

apart from locating a radio signal source [ADDED: or other object that is detectable, but whose location is not known] by considering directional data from three** points some distance away, which form a triangle.

here is an example, seen today, from column by blogger Jon Wiener:

excerpt
//Earlier that day, the New York Times reported on page one that the health care industry has already contributed $2.7 million to Hillary, more than any other candidate in either party. Krugman indicated he was concerned that she might do too much compromising and negotiating with the insurance, pharmaceutical and hospital companies, as she did as First Lady in 1993.

Krugman pointed to one big difference between the Clintons' triangulation over health care in 1993 and the situation today, when "we have a self-conscious, aggressive progressive movement in a way we did not when Bill Clinton came into office. I think that does at least somewhat change the calculus," he said. If Hillary does concede too much to the other side, "there is an organized group that will make it clear that this is not what you're supposed to do."//

===

see the game at

http://www.kentaurus.com/downloads/Triangulation.pdf

----

**ADDED: Thanks to Weird H and others who've pointed out that 'triangulation' , i.e. locating an observable entity whose location is unknown, can be done with two observer points, using angular data, if the distance between those points is known. in such case, the two points plus the unknown location of the entity--the third point-- form a triangle.

 

[rgraham666]

I don't know why Krugman is worried. If Hilary gets the Democratic nod I believe her chances of living to see the interior of the Oval Office again to be effectively zero.

 

[jomar]

I don't know why Krugman is worried. If Hilary gets the Democratic nod I believe her chances of living to see the interior of the Oval Office again to be effectively zero.

Don't let the FBI hear you say that!

 

[poppy1963]

I don't know why Krugman is worried. If Hilary gets the Democratic nod I believe her chances of living to see the interior of the Oval Office again to be effectively zero.

WHAT?! You think she would be a target for assasination?


Seriously...do you?

 

[rgraham666]

WHAT?! You think she would be a target for assasination?


Seriously...do you?

I'm afraid I do.

There's a segment of the American population that is reduced to foaming wrath at just the mention of either of the Clintons. One of my favourite people here, God rest her soul, suffered from it. So do several other people who post here. I've observed the phenomena elsewhere as well.

Even the current administration doesn't seem to raise the same level of emotion.

So, if she's gets the Democratic nod, yes, I do believe she'll become a target for assassination. There are, in my opinion, more than a few people that will regard it as their 'patriotic duty' to keep her from office.

 

[Pure]

anybody aware of the thread topic?

 

[Liar]

anybody aware of the thread topic?

Triangulation is not limited to radio positioning. It can be used in any contex that can be thought of as a plane area. For instance for positioning things on a chart with an X and Y axis.

Whatever the hell that has to do with clintonian politics, I have no idea.

 

[starrkers]

Aren't there only 2 Clintons? How the hell can two "triangulate"?
Or is this just another example of hack journalism and using an "in" word without bothering to check its meaning?

 

[Weird Harold]

Krugman pointed to one big difference between the Clintons' triangulation over health care in 1993

I suspect that this is another case of "Smell Chucker" override.

The word Tribulation(s) fits the context and with a typo or two would lead a spell check to suggest "triangulation" as a correction.

 

[Weird Harold]

apart from locating a radio signal source by considering directional data from three points some distance away, which form a triangle.

PS: Triangulation only requires directional (angular) data from TWO points bearing on the third point and has been used for centuries to measure height and distance where direct physical measurement is impossible or impractical -- such as measuring the elevation of a mountain peak without having to climb it or the width of a canyon without having to string a measuring tape across it.

Triangualtion of radio sources is a very late-coming application of the priciple.

 

[neonlyte]

apart from locating a radio signal source by considering directional data from three points some distance away, which form a triangle.

here is an example, seen today, from column by blogger Jon Wiener:

excerpt
//Earlier that day, the New York Times reported on page one that the health care industry has already contributed $2.7 million to Hillary, more than any other candidate in either party. Krugman indicated he was concerned that she might do too much compromising and negotiating with the insurance, pharmaceutical and hospital companies, as she did as First Lady in 1993.

Krugman pointed to one big difference between the Clintons' triangulation over health care in 1993 and the situation today, when "we have a self-conscious, aggressive progressive movement in a way we did not when Bill Clinton came into office. I think that does at least somewhat change the calculus," he said. If Hillary does concede too much to the other side, "there is an organized group that will make it clear that this is not what you're supposed to do."//

===

see the game at

http://www.kentaurus.com/downloads/Triangulation.pdf

Bill > Hillary > Health. The great thing about a triangle is, it's a circle with corners.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Triangulation, as I understand it, is when a third party, say Hillary, plays two opposing camps against each other to reap benefits from each.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Triangulation, in the Clinton context, refers to Bill's campaign strategy of finding a 'third way', apart from the traditional Right vs. Left political positions. In practice, I think it mostly meant that the Clinton Democratic party took more pro-business positions on issues from Free Trade to Welfare Reform. On the issues where the strategy was successful in passing legislation, Clinton was able to pry support of the pro-business wing of the Republican party away from the Evangelical wing, to combine with the DLCers, and what was derisively called the 'limosine liberal' contingent of the Democratic party.

 

[only_more_so]

apart from locating a radio signal source by considering directional data from three points some distance away, which form a triangle.

Actually, triangulation of radio signals is done with two points to identify the third point. A third point can be used to reduce the error but isn't needed. At least when the listening points have directional bearing.

It gets more complicated if you don't have direction information.

Although, triangulating is one of those commonly misused terms, that some people even use to mean rendez-vous. I guess they would rather use English and be wrong than French.

EDIT: Damn, should have read the whole thread. Harold got it right.

 

[slyc_willie]

Hmm.

Triangulation = pinpointing.

Pinpointing = focus.

Maybe I'm reaching . . . .

 

[Pure]

thanks huck, for the info.-- someone's on topic! i think in context, the reference is to Hillary's cozying up to at least some sectors of the 'health care' industry; the hope, presumably, is that like the Edwards Plan*, her approach could receive corporate as well as popular support.

thanks weird h. for the correction of the definition, which i've added. i think --in case you were serious!---you are wrong, however that in the article--and elsewhere?-- 'triangulation' is a missprint (spell check 'override', in your terms), in particular, for 'tribulation.'



*as i understand it, compulsory insurance, but executed through existing private insurance entities who are under some compulsion to spread the risk and, collectively, provide something for the 'uninsurable'.

ADDED: Thanks Oblimo. I think 'tribadism' is clearly the preferred reading, pointing out the hidden link between gay marriage and national health care.

 

[Oblimo]

I suspect that this is another case of "Smell Chucker" override.

Yep, they published a correction. It should have read "...Clinton's tribadism over healthcare..."

 

[Weird Harold]

thanks weird h. for the correction of the definition, which i've added. i think --in case you were serious!

I was being serious, Triangulation has been a mainstay of navigation and surveying for a lot longer than radio.

Another variation is to take bearings on two known points from an unknown point -- like sighting on lighthouses lighthouses or mountain peaks and drawing two crossing lines on a map/chart to determine your location -- a concept adapted to radio technolgy in the form of the network of LORAN (LOng RAnnge Navigation) navigation beacons the Navy and Coast Guard maintains even in this age of Satelite Navigation systems (which are really an extension of the LORAN concept.)

As for the political meaning, I really couldn't care less how that sector of society misuses it.

 

[Pure]

that's a bit like saying 'orientation' has a meaning in math, and any application to sexual preferences is illegitimate ('misuse').

As for the political meaning, I really couldn't care less how that sector of society misuses it.

 

[xssve]

Actually, triangulation of radio signals is done with two points to identify the third point. A third point can be used to reduce the error but isn't needed. At least when the listening points have directional bearing.

It gets more complicated if you don't have direction information.

In Surveying, you shoot a known point from an unknown point, and using measurements of distance and direction, calculate the unknown point. A second known point pins it down to a usable point, from which the location of another unknown point can be shot. The more known point you have, the more accurately you can pinpoint the location.

In this case, I believe Krugman is probobly referring to relatively fixed political positions, i.e., the position of the healthcare industry, the position of the republicans, the position of proponents of national healthcare, etc., successful politics being largely the art of trying to find a compromise position where nobody gets what they want but everybody gets what they need.

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

Triangulation is also common in engineerring, strengthening load bearing structures by bracing with triangulated crossmembers.

In this context I could see that it might refer to distribution of the cost load between government, insurance and patient.

That is if she were smart enough to realize that the money has to come from somewhere other than the tooth fairy and she really gave a shit about it to begin with.

 

[Huckleman2000]

thanks huck, for the info.-- someone's on topic! i think in context, the reference is to Hillary's cozying up to at least some sectors of the 'health care' industry; the hope, presumably, is that like the Edwards Plan*, her approach could receive corporate as well as popular support.
[snip]

No problem, Pure.

I looked at your game link, too. I really couldn't make any sense of it .

I notice that the AH is more in need of ritalin (or ginko) than ever!

Maybe this would help?

 

[trysail]

(I do realize that it has been deduced that the word in question was likely "tribulation" rather than the spell-chucked "triangulation." I am, nonetheless, compelled by my interest in navigation and my nautical neurosis to attempt an explanation of "triangulation." I duly note the LORAN post)

Lemme take a shot at it even though I'm bound to bugger it up. It's one of those things that is difficult to explain to someone who hasn't had the experience of attempting to do it

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2325/1835391445_c24d20f3e0_o.jpg​

on a small vessel that's in the midst of large ocean swells in a Force 5 breeze, in the vicinity of reefs or other hazards to navigation. Suffice it to say, that you, the boat, the horizon, and the objects (be they islands or aids to navigation) upon which you are attempting to take bearings are ALL BOUNCING AROUND and CONSTANTLY MOVING.

Since one doesn't always have the luxury of having numerous objects upon which to take bearings, it is entirely possible that there may be only two bearings. If that's the case, (as has been noted in this thread) you can draw two lines on a chart. Theoretically, their intersection is your position (see the red lines above), ASSUMING, of course, THAT YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED in getting accurate bearings (I promise you, it ain't easy). However, it is distinctly possible that the objects for which you have attempted to get accurate bearings are either close together (forming an extremely acute angle) or are at nearly opposite ends of the horizon (forming an extremely oblique intersection angle). If this happens to be the case, the unfortunate truth is that it doesn't take a great deal of error in the bearings to move your guesstimated position a long way. I'm afraid it's difficult for me to illustrate but if you're really interested you can fool around with it yourself to satisfy yourself that this is true. The point is that a two bearing line estimate of position can be highly inaccurate and should be treated as such.

The addition of a third object bearing (obviously) permits the drawing of a third line and forms (as seen betweeen the blue lines above) a TRIANGLE (shaded in lime above). Theoretically, one's position lies within the triangle and the accuracy is usually greatly improved.

 

[Pure]

those are good points, try. i think that's why originally my definition was slightly off. in practical terms, if the angle is small or close to 180 degree, the effects of error, unavoidable error, are tremendous. i have roughly done the math, here:

assume the two measuring stations, A and B, are only 5 miles apart and the object, C is 200 miles equidistant (very acute triangle) from A and B. call the midpoint of the line joining A and B, "D".

Considering triangle ADC:
Angle A then is about 89.28 degrees. A=arccos (2.5/200)

The distance of the object from the joining line is about 199 miles. CD in the triangle ACD.
(tan 89.28 )(2.5)= 199

Let us experiment with an error of one tenth of a degree.
Angle A is 89.38 degrees.
(tan 89.38)(2.5)=231 miles for CD.

The error of distance, in CD, i.e., from the common line, AB, is about 32 miles! about 15%, one might say.

same if we assume the stations are 200 miles apart, and the object is only 5 miles off the midpoint of the lines joining them (triangle with long base and very little height).

 

[Weird Harold]

in practical terms, if the angle is small or close to 180 degree, the effects of error, unavoidable error, are tremendous.

That's why the ideal reference points are 60 degrees apart and why the Coast Guard maintains so many LORAN stations far from the "Coast" -- like the one bear Cal-Nev-Ari -- Reference points closer than 30 degrees are generally unreliable, so you need a lot of options when you get far out to sea.


FWIW, GPS also uses a king of triangulation but a triangulation based on time differences rather than distance or bearing and GPS does require three, or more, satelite references; ideal is five satelite fixes.