Trepidations About Republishing

[madelinemasoch]

There are pros and cons to using this platform as a writer. The major benefit is that the reach is insane. I got thousands of views per story when I was publishing here, every time. The most I got was 53k. That's a lot of people! As somebody who wants to write as a career, that's very appealing, because in 2025 one has to build an audience by publishing stuff online for free before one can expect to sell a book, whether in traditional publishing or self-publishing (the term kindle graveyard exists for a reason).

The major con I can see is the fact that this may just not be the right platform for me in particular due to the way that much of the readership seems to read. I'm not saying I can't produce what someone wants to read on here. I'm saying that at large it seems to be that there is a massive confusion about what it means to be a good writer on this website. I'm going to talk about a bunch of things that I've seen readers imply in comments and other writers imply on the forums as well that belie this kind of conflation with writing quality on a technical level and the fulfillment of one personal fantasy (which on the site basically equates to a checklist of genre conventions for each category). It's even implied that writing overall as an action is conflated with writing for the site when readers hate-comment that you're a "bad writer" quote-unquote when all you're failing to do is fulfill their fantasy and appease their tastes (i.e. fulfill a genre convention checklist).

So we have the fact that writing quality is conflated with content choices, but writing quality is also conflated with ratings. I never got a Red H that I could actually keep. I got two and they both lasted a few months but then I got more popular so I got more haters and they downvoted every story on my page. But that's not what I'm trying to discuss in particular, it's really a phenomenon I've noticed all across the board, not just rooted in my own experiences. I wrote a thread on why ratings don't matter a while ago. This is because I did the calculations on my own stories (which I've since deleted from the site) and only 0.4% of the readers on average actually left a rating. 0.4% of the readers is not a big enough sample size to determine the general opinion of your story. I say all this to say I don't think I can get an accurate reading of the quality of any of my writing here from the feedback mechanisms provided, unless 1. a lot more people rate them as a ratio to total readers, which probably isn't going to happen for anyone as the highest we could find in that thread was someone reporting 5%, and 2. people start reading for actual writing quality instead of reading to find specific content and judging your writing quality based on the content you include as I see them do all the time, not just on my own stories but the entire website.

I want to say more about that. I think that readers are grading the stories based on how closely they approximate the Platonic ideal of a genre convention, and I think that writers feel they have to approximate said Platonic ideal (for lack of a better term) of a genre convention in their writing. For me, that would take all of the juice out of the writing, probably because of how personal my creative process is. My ideas are unconventional and the source of them is too particular. I don't think this means that they can't have mass appeal or that there can't be points of relation to my characters by the reader or that there's nothing to be learned from it. It definitely doesn't mean I'm a bad writer. LMAO. But I kind of get the impression that readers (and even sometimes writers) have over time begun to use Lit as a porn site. I don't think that stories should be engaged with as pornography, which is to say nothing about the content, I'm completely fine with erotica obviously, but that the categories shouldn't be viewed as porn categories like, people shouldn't be looking at stories that fulfill their specific quote-unquote "fetishism" and tastes let's say as good and those which don't as bad, and writers who do as good and writers who don't as bad. It's just pure confusion. The underlying cause for that is that people are using this as a porn site. It's not PornHub. The more we feed into this viewpoint the worse the problem will get. We have to actually write things with literary value if we want to prevent this from becoming PornHub in word form, and I'm kind of afraid the damage is already done.

I just want a place to share all of my darkest, deepest, dirtiest, most unique and transgressive creations where they will actually be read but at the same time they will actually be read as stories and not judged in this way to where "oh, you didn't properly approximate my 'fetish', or yours is somehow offensive, so you must be a bad writer." Like, that's bullshit. I've demonstrated why it's deeper than individual taste, so I'm not even saying the line of 'just because one reader doesn't like the story doesn't mean you're a bad writer.' I'm saying quality doesn't equal approximation to consumer tastes on the site as a whole, and the way that the site is used contributes to the way in which the tastes of a few have been conflated with writing quality overall.

It's a rock and a hard place because I'd be hard pressed to find another site where I get 53k views and I'm not even famous yet. I don't write so I can make anyone cum; that would just be an incidental benefit. But where else can I find 53k views?

 

[lovecraft68]

Whether the voting and feedback here reflect quality or not, you're still publishing, still getting eyes on your work, and building a base that you hope will follow you into the market.

So, scores, ratings, opinions, and the dreaded and mythological beast known as quality really doesn't matter.

Eyes on your work while your eyes are on the prize, which isn't here, you're just using this place to amass people to lead them like a smutty Pied Piper to another land.

 

[RejectReality]

Fade to black at the bedroom door, and put it somewhere mainstream. That's the only way you're getting anything resembling the level of readership you get here.

Lit's always been a porn site with the occasional posting that contained storyline. Most of the earliest submissions were less than 1 Lit page and basically porn scripts. The bulk of them always have been. The categories are mostly sexual kinks, just like any other porn site. What are you expecting?

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's a rock and a hard place because I'd be hard pressed to find another site where I get 53k views and I'm not even famous yet. I don't write so I can make anyone cum; that would just be an incidental benefit. But where else can I find 53k views?

You can't. The reality is, Lit is a porn site, first and foremost, with content that is, on the whole, unsophisticated.

I think writers who aspire a little higher (let's use the term "erotica", to cut to the chase), need to accept their content is really a niche, and temper their expectations.

Don't agonise over this - you're not going to change a thing. Just publish and be damned, but don't expect to change the world. That's not going to happen, but you might connect with some readers who "get" you. That has to be enough, because it's all you're going to get.

You should republish, or submit new content, but just get on with it. All this soul-searching can't be helping your head space, but getting your content out there might.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You are overthinking it. Literotica is what it is and there's no helping it. As RR said, it is a porn site most of all, even though there are other kinds of stories too. Not even Laurel could change the nature of the website now without severely impacting the readership.
So you can either use its pros and accept the downsides or publish somewhere else. The choice is that simple. That's not being harsh, just realistic.

I completely understand venting your frustrations about the website. The forum is the right place for that. But there is no changing any of this. You need to accept that. Use it for what it is to the best of your satisfaction or give up on it. The sad truth though is that there aren't better story websites out there, and I am not talking only about the number of visitors.

Maybe one day some better alternative will appear, but until then, this is what you get. This is what all of us get, like it or not.

 

[Voboy]

Lit is packed with stories written by people who just knock out one or two smut pieces, then get it out of their system and move on with their lives.

Those of us who post more than one or two or ten stories here, however, need to have our eyes open. We need to admit to ourselves what this place is, and what it's not. My opinion is that, in order to maintain your self-image, you're better off not pretending this place is anything other than what it is for what's probably the VAST majority of readers: a place to get a free orgasm.

Me? I'm fine with that. Early on, I struck a balance between my own ambitions and the reactions I expected from my readers. For the most part, that balance still holds over a hundred stories later. I think it's because I was a reader first, LONG before I was a writer: I had no illusions when I started publishing here. I wrote (and still do) for myself, as a reader. So I basically ask myself what kind of story I would find both enjoyable (as a piece of prose) and titillating (as a piece of smut), then write it down. That works for me. It means I spend minimal time navel-gazing and maximal time actually writing.

I'm sure I'd feel different if my ambitions were any higher. I also suspect I would get an ulcer. So I don't let myself do that. This is a hobby; it's not here to cause me stress. Life's too short.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I just want a place to share all of my darkest, deepest, dirtiest, most unique and transgressive creations where they will actually be read but at the same time they will actually be read as stories and not judged in this way to where "oh, you didn't properly approximate my 'fetish', or yours is somehow offensive, so you must be a bad writer." Like, that's bullshit. I've demonstrated why it's deeper than individual taste, so I'm not even saying the line of 'just because one reader doesn't like the story doesn't mean you're a bad writer.' I'm saying quality doesn't equal approximation to consumer tastes on the site as a whole, and the way that the site is used contributes to the way in which the tastes of a few have been conflated with writing quality overall.

You said above that you know that you are not a bad writer. The readers' opinions do not change that. So why do you feel the need for the site to change? The site can't really change. The site is driven by traffic and without the porn crowd there will be no traffic. Furthermore, the site can only advertise on porn sites (it can't buy banners on family friendly sites) so that is the clientele who walk in the door.

I think that readers are grading the stories based on how closely they approximate the Platonic ideal of a genre convention, and I think that writers feel they have to approximate said Platonic ideal (for lack of a better term) of a genre convention in their writing.

They totally do. What else might you expect? I expected nothing less when I signed up. If I know that I am a good writer, I don't need to seek validation for my writing. You say that you are a good writer (or at least not a bad writer) yet you still wish the site to change enough so that you can get your validation from the readership. I'm not trying to shoot you down at all, just pointing out an issue with your stance. Review your motives. Are you looking to build an audience or are you looking for validation of your writing?

It's a free site. Anyone can walk in the door, so you can't control the clientele. If you wish to find a more specific audience, you should go behind a paywall where the audience will be more selective and only pay for stuff that they think they might like. If someone reads a description of your work and thinks that it's something they might be into, then they will pay and be more likely to be into it. On a free site you can't stop the "riff-raff" (for lack of better term) from clicking your story. All the tire-kickers will click on it because if they don't like it they can toss it in the bin or kick dirt on it. Whereas people who pay money will be a lot less likely to do that. The money will keep the trolls away.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Yeah, I have to agree with AwkwardlySet... you ARE overthinking it. All of it.

Personally, I believe that 0.4% of readers voting IS a big-enough sample size. Because I believe that people vote for one of two reasons: Either they hated it so much they felt compelled to downvote your work, or they loved it so much they felt the need to let you know. If your story is a solid 3/5, people shrug and move on to the next part. Not to forget the sizable chunk of people who, after discovering they don't like your story, simply move on without even bothering to finish reading it.

And coming to a site where (subjectively) 80%-90% of the submissions amount to little more than masturbation fantasies, and expect a readership that evaluates your work based on craftsmanship and storytelling, is just delusional. Sorry, but it simply is.
The rating system on Lit doesn't range from "Badly written" to "Best story I've ever read". It ranges from "HATE IT" to "LOVE IT". It asks people to rate our stories based on how they liked it. And that means: If you write about a kink that the majority doesn't enjoy, then the majority will perceive it as bad, and they are asked to rate it accordingly. THAT'S why you shouldn't care about ratings if you write for the craft.

You have no basis to complain either way. If you post here, for free, to an audience who didn't ask for it, it was YOU who misread the market, and you can blame the audience as much as you want... but nobody is required to like our work.

Personally... I don't think Lit is a good place to publish at all if you're in it for the money. Fact is, I published my books on other sites that go to great lengths to promote the finished versions to everyone who wanted to read them, and it worked out rather well. Meanwhile, when I posted one to Lit, it garnered MAYBE two dozen sales. Why? I think that publishing on Lit is the literary equivalent to working for exposure. It has the potential to reward you with a huge following... sadly, that following consists of people who are used to getting all their stories for free, and that entitlement shows.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm trying to be sympathetic, but I don't get it. You say you had 53,000 views for a story, and it felt good to have that. Of course it did. Why focus on the negative? You cannot control the readership and their reaction. I sure as hell can't, and I get negative comments all the time, and I have stories with scores way below where I think they should be, and my reaction is . . . whatever. That's the way it is. Readers are entitled to feel the way they feel. It doesn't interfere in any way with what I'm trying to do.

 

[lovecraft68]

Look around, dear. This is a porn site, and you're giving way too much credit to the locals. Everywhere you look, you find degenerative, lonely, illiterate, narrow-minded freaks.

Hey, stop being so hard on yourself.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I have just published my 30th story here.

Of the 29 previous stories, only 4 of them have more than 50K views, and 3 of those are in the I/T category. There are 22 red H's in my portfolio currently, with a few wavering just below the threshold.

Obviously, I don't publish stories to appeal to the masses here, and I never will. I have a loyal audience of dedicated followers who appreciate what I serve up to them, and I could care less about others.

Variations (R rated) on several of my stories here have been commercially successful (generated a profit), received good critical reviews, and even been staff picks at local libraries around the country. While not on any best-seller lists, I have sold thousands of books derived from my stories on here.

For me, consistency is the bedrock of quality. The audience for my tales appear to believe the same way.

 

[Tomh1966]

Small point.

53K reads in Loving Wives or Incest is a good accomplishment.
53K reads in Romance or Novellas is Olympic champ level amazing.

Most stories have very low quality. Most people come in, write 1-5 stories that read like, 'My wife fell on a dick then I decided I wanted a cock cage.'
Those people don't last.

Most stories written by authors who stick around with 10+ stories are fair to middling in writing quality or better.

As I understand it, making decent money requires piles of work being churned out constantly PLUS a following.

One thing I always wondered is how much a known author like Saddletramp makes now that he is publishing for Kindle. (order of magnitude)

 

[MillieDynamite]

I have no complaint about the site, its readership, or how the Literotica is structured. My complaints about voting or comments won't change those issues. I don't like cruel comments; I don't like personal attacks on me, either as a writer or a person. I tend to delete some, but not all of those. I publish here and hope it feeds my sales at Amazon or elsewhere, though these days, there is only one elsewhere. I don't make my living off my writing for my publications. My living comes from ghost work. I'm not good enough or lucky enough to live off any proceeds from my own published stories. Perhaps I could be, but you can't stay anonymous and sell work. At least, I can't.

I get your frustrations. I don't necessarily disagree with you. But things are what they are, and we can't change them. The site isn't designed for mainstream writers. Few free sites can stay afloat and concentrate on family-friendly content.

 

[nice90sguy]

I wish Literotica was filled with people exactly like me.

 

[StillStunned]

I wish Literotica was filled with people exactly like me.

I always assume that the internet is just a manifestation of my mind, and the people I interact with are aspects of my personality.

 

[nice90sguy]

I bet the people you interact with say exactly the same thing about you

 

[StillStunned]

I bet the people you interact with say exactly the same thing about you

Shut up, Smart-Arse Me!

 

[alohadave]

I always assume that the internet is just a manifestation of my mind, and the people I interact with are aspects of my personality.

https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

I think about this all the time.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm afraid that THE INTERNET is largely a reflection of society at large, which doesn't say a lot about Society in general.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

I think about this all the time.

“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”

No, no, no. The proper last line should be, "No, there was no Jesus. That guy was just made up."

: P

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I'll be bluntly honest - I would love it if there was a way to get as many eyeballs on my writing as I could without the sex stuff. I don't mind writing the sex stuff - it's fun, honestly - but I would be even happier if I could write some fantasy or other kinds of stuff and get 50k people to read it.

But that's not going to happen, lol. There are too many people writing too much stuff, and even the best writers with agents and publishing contracts sometimes don't get the kind of readership that you get here by throwing in some sex. So I decided to write here, knowing that if I wanted to get eyeballs, I'd need to add in some sexy stuff. I think that's a fair trade off.

Where else can some random person decide to put pen to paper and get tens of thousands of people to read it?

Now, that doesn't mean you've got to comply, of course. But hey. Write what you want, enjoy the process, enjoy the folks who read it and get it, and don't get too sad when something doesn't work. One of my good friends who is in the comics business loves to say to folks who don't like his stuff - "I'm sorry you didn't like this one, I hope you'll like the next one."

I try to live by that philosophy.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Okay. Thanks to everyone for responding with your input. I decided I'm going to put in the work and begin publishing here again this year, ASAP. I have experienced a resurgence of inspirational light energy and I am going to have to work harder to serve these ideas and bring them forward.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Look around, dear. This is a porn site, and you're giving way too much credit to the locals. Everywhere you look, you find degenerative, lonely, illiterate, narrow-minded freaks. Stop giving a fuck.

I'll take that as a compliment! Anyway, the site brags that it has over 500,000 stories written by 100,000 people. That's five per writer. That seems true of two other sites like this as well. One of them has stats going back years, and most of the members have one or two stories - ever! In 2014, perhaps.

I don't give a fuck, in the sense that I've stopped reading other stories on all three sites. I write what I wish, dabble around in AH (probably too much), and that's enough. @madelinemasoch (did I spell that correctly?): If you want some dialogue with the readers, you're best chance is The Story Feedback board.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I'll take that as a compliment! Anyway, the site brags that it has over 500,000 stories written by 100,000 people. That's five per writer. That seems true of two other sites like this as well. One of them has stats going back years, and most of the members have one or two stories - ever! In 2014, perhaps.

I don't give a fuck, in the sense that I've stopped reading other stories on all three sites. I write what I wish, dabble around in AH (probably too much), and that's enough. @madelinemasoch (did I spell that correctly?): If you want some dialogue with the readers, you're best chance is The Story Feedback board.

Thanks. I might go there once I get everything ready on my end.

 

[Not2Pervy]

I’ve been writing on this site, and semi-regularly reading the AH for about three years and it has taken me until now to come to the (what probably should have been gobsmackingly obvious) conclusion that in its highest form, this site is about writing erotica.

I’ve written and posted here content that I would say is smut, and also content with a higher ambition. When the focus of my writerly ambition has been primarily non-erotic, the ratings and view numbers have suffered. I might still post that kind of content again in the future, because at least it does get some readers and some engagement here.

But I think the best use of this site, if I want to continue to grow as a writer, is to try to engage readers erotically. I’m defining erotic here to imply an artistic merit higher than porn. If I can write something someone gets off too, that’s a cheap thrill. That’s not bad. It is what it is. But if I can write something that engages someone intelligently and emotionally in a way that stays with them even after they’ve clicked out of it, then I’ve achieved something that takes skill and insight, and that helps me to develop as a “real” writer.