Too violent and degrading?

[FazilKotuk]

I submitted a story to Lit that had already been accepted on at least one site, but it was rejected as being "too degrading and violent", or something like that. Now, this was set in a dystopian theme, so it was supposed to be a bit rough, but that's just because the story was about a brutal warlord and his victims. I removed some material that might have been too violent or degrading or offensive, but I am puzzled at the reference to snuff, which wasn't in the story. Well, I resubmitted a tamer version, but still, having them claim that I put snuff in there was a bit annoying. And it didn't seem any rougher than some of the other stories that I have seen here in various categories (NC/reluctance/LW/Sci-fi/Fantasies/and BDSM).

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I submitted a story to Lit that had already been accepted on at least one site, but it was rejected as being "too degrading and violent", or something like that. Now, this was set in a dystopian theme, so it was supposed to be a bit rough, but that's just because the story was about a brutal warlord and his victims. I removed some material that might have been too violent or degrading or offensive, but I am puzzled at the reference to snuff, which wasn't in the story. Well, I resubmitted a tamer version, but still, having them claim that I put snuff in there was a bit annoying. And it didn't seem any rougher than some of the other stories that I have seen here in various categories (NC/reluctance/LW/Sci-fi/Fantasies/and BDSM).

Lit mabye a smut site, but they are particular about the smut they accept. There are other sites on the web that will take anything.....

My advice to you is to PM Laurel and see if you can get a more detailed explanation.

 

[FazilKotuk]

Lit mabye a smut site, but they are particular about the smut they accept. There are other sites on the web that will take anything.....

My advice to you is to PM Laurel and see if you can get a more detailed explanation.

I was just a bit confused as to how there were other stories as rough or more, that were accepted. And why they claimed that there was snuff when there wasn't.

 

[FazilKotuk]

Oh, well, I changed it a bit, as I said, to tone it down, so it might get accepted now.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I was just a bit confused as to how there were other stories as rough or more, that were accepted. And why they claimed that there was snuff when there wasn't.

Sorry, can't help you there, I don't read or write "rough" stories. My initial advice still stands, PM Laurel....

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

In my experience on Lit, "Snuff" is anytime a murder or violent act occurs for the shear pleasure or sexual gratification. You can have murder. You can have characters die. You just can't kill them while jerking your tiny little boner. Sorry.

 

[FazilKotuk]

In my experience on Lit, "Snuff" is anytime a murder or violent act occurs for the shear pleasure or sexual gratification. You can have murder. You can have characters die. You just can't kill them while jerking your tiny little boner. Sorry.

There wasn't any killing during sex. That's the whole point. It didn't happen. It was just a typical NC/reluctance story with a background of dystopian brutality. That's the whole point of a dystopia. It's a less than ideal world. In fact, no killing was described, for arousal purposes or anything else. The only references to killing were vague.

 

[FazilKotuk]

Sorry, can't help you there, I don't read or write "rough" stories. My initial advice still stands, PM Laurel....

I shall bear that in mind. And, yes, there was a purpose to the violence beyond NC/reluctance. There was meant to be a mix of sex, science fiction, and social commentary. A kind of guilty pleasure, but with a subtle message.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

There wasn't any killing during sex. That's the whole point. It didn't happen. It was just a typical NC/reluctance story with a background of dystopian brutality. That's the whole point of a dystopia. It's a less than ideal world. In fact, no killing was described, for arousal purposes or anything else. The only references to killing were vague.

It's not killing during sex that provides the sexual gratification.

There was a serial killer here some years back named Jerry Brudos. He kidnapped women, took them home to his garage, murdered them, chopped them up and kept them in his freezer. That was how he got off. That's snuff, not jacking off while murdering someone.

 

[FazilKotuk]

It's not killing during sex that provides the sexual gratification.

There was a serial killer here some years back named Jerry Brudos. He kidnapped women, took them home to his garage, murdered them, chopped them up and kept them in his freezer. That was how he got off. That's snuff, not jacking off while murdering someone.

I'll take your word for that about what gratifies one, but my point is that there was no killing that was even remotely sexual. There was no real description of killing at all, just a vague reference to wars and such. Not from what I remember of writing the story.

I'm not trying to be mean or overly critical, but I am truly puzzled as to how snuff applies. I think that I will PM Laurel about this issue, adding that I revised the story a bit to tone down the dystopian violence a bit.

In case anyone thinks that I'm trying to attack the management, bear in mind that I very seldom criticize them for anything. There's seldom anything that merits such criticism. There are exceptions to every rule, however, and times when things are confusing, is all.

In the spirit of the solstice, I'll ignore the undeserved personal attacks on my genitalia.

 

[Varian P]

I shall bear that in mind. And, yes, there was a purpose to the violence beyond NC/reluctance. There was meant to be a mix of sex, science fiction, and social commentary. A kind of guilty pleasure, but with a subtle message.

Coincidentally, the first chapter of my latest novel-in-progress posted this morning, and thematically it sounds similar to your story.

I'm afraid I don't have any insight into how the editors here decide what is acceptable, and what is over the line; I've certainly seen stories that have been accepted that include extreme sexual violence and death, and whether or not those scenes were written to arouse is pretty subjective.

Like your story, mine includes some brutal violence, in my case more as an exploration of aspects of human nature that baffle and intrigue me, rather than social commentary. I'm also playing with ideas about how individuals can exert a degree of power from within a situation of rigid contraint.

But anyway, I'll be curious to see if the later, darker chapters are accepted, or not. Nothing in the chapters submitted so far goes much beyond your standard N/C scene.

 

[FazilKotuk]

Coincidentally, the first chapter of my latest novel-in-progress posted this morning, and thematically it sounds similar to your story.

I'm afraid I don't have any insight into how the editors here decide what is acceptable, and what is over the line; I've certainly seen stories that have been accepted that include extreme sexual violence and death, and whether or not those scenes were written to arouse is pretty subjective.

Like your story, mine includes some brutal violence, in my case more as an exploration of aspects of human nature that baffle and intrigue me, rather than social commentary. I'm also playing with ideas about how individuals can exert a degree of power from within a situation of rigid contraint.

But anyway, I'll be curious to see if the later, darker chapters are accepted, or not. Nothing in the chapters submitted so far goes much beyond your standard N/C scene.

Thanks for the relevant comments, and I am quite intrigued by your story idea there. Mine is essentially life under a brutal military governor who is given "carte blanche" to annex a territory by any means necessary. Naturally, he abuses his power, hence the NC/reluctance. Not that the victims are that nice, but they aren't as evil as him. They are the lesser evil, as it were. But both are supposedly on the side, one of a Christo-fascist corporate state. That's part of the social commentary, the hypocrisy of the religious right and all on issues like sex, rape, and violence.

 

[Varian P]

dueling dystopias

Thanks for the relevant comments, and I am quite intrigued by your story idea there. Mine is essentially life under a brutal military governor who is given "carte blanche" to annex a territory by any means necessary. Naturally, he abuses his power, hence the NC/reluctance. Not that the victims are that nice, but they aren't as evil as him. They are the lesser evil, as it were. But both are supposedly on the side, one of a Christo-fascist corporate state. That's part of the social commentary, the hypocrisy of the religious right and all on issues like sex, rape, and violence.

I'm intrigued, as well. When your story posts, I'll be sure to check it out, if you add a link to this thread.

We definitely have some interesting overlaps.

"After" has two distinct parts, but the first involves a small group of soldiers, the lone survivors at an isolated military base following a cataclysmic event (the nature of which I intentionally leave vague) which seems to have destroyed nearly all human life. When a lone woman turns up more than two years later, the ranking officer implements a plan in an effort to keep some semblence of order among the men, to "protect" what may be the last woman on earth, and to try to ensure the continuation of the human race. His intentions are reasonable, but the means to that end are pretty scary.

 

[FazilKotuk]

I'm intrigued, as well. When your story posts, I'll be sure to check it out, if you add a link to this thread.

We definitely have some interesting overlaps.

"After" has two distinct parts, but the first involves a small group of soldiers, the lone survivors at an isolated military base following a cataclysmic event (the nature of which I intentionally leave vague) which seems to have destroyed nearly all human life. When a lone woman turns up more than two years later, the ranking officer implements a plan in an effort to keep some semblence of order among the men, to "protect" what may be the last woman on earth, and to try to ensure the continuation of the human race. His intentions are reasonable, but the means to that end are pretty scary.

Definitely sounds like a fascinating read. Mating is a powerful drive, so the means that someone might employ to control that drive can easily get out of hand, usually with sincere intentions (though not always, and in any case, the motives are generally misguided). I'll have to read it some time in the near future.

 

[jomar]

There wasn't any killing during sex. That's the whole point. It didn't happen. It was just a typical NC/reluctance story with a background of dystopian brutality. That's the whole point of a dystopia. It's a less than ideal world. In fact, no killing was described, for arousal purposes or anything else. The only references to killing were vague.

I had one rejected and got the standard "violence/degrading/snuff" statement - it's generic, not specific. I changed one word and it was accepted. I don't think it was the word, I tend to think a different editor caught the story. Different editor, different mood, different result. I think.

 

[FazilKotuk]

I had one rejected and got the standard "violence/degrading/snuff" statement - it's generic, not specific. I changed one word and it was accepted. I don't think it was the word, I tend to think a different editor caught the story. Different editor, different mood, different result. I think.

Oh, okay. I wondered about that. Well, maybe the different version will get accepted. Who knows? Thanks for the input. So, that was just a catch-all, and the snuff was just bunched in with the other stuff? Hmm....very general, but oh, well. What can one do? Hope for the right editor, I suppose.