To stay or to go? Long post warning...

[All_4_Love]

I realize this would probably be better placed in the “How-To” forum. My apology if it is not allowed to be posted here. I tend to trust the opinions of the majority of the readers and posters here in the BDSM corner of Lit.

I am directing this question to those of you here who are on your path, who understand the importance of keeping yourself emotionally healthy, who understand the meaning of healthy boundaries, and the importance of following one’s heart and intuition.

For all intents and purposes, I consider myself to be in a healthy relationship with someone that I do love very much. He does have a sordid past, and as we all know, our past can come back to haunt us. We decided recently to move in together. Shortly after this decision, his oldest daughter, who is unwed, barely 20 years old, and has a 9-month old child, had to come back home to live with us at her dad’s house. I am not very fond of speaking ill about others but for the purpose of this post, I must. I do understand that this is a direct result of how she has been raised, i.e. “sordid past”, and that there is really very little hope for change.

To put it simply, she is manipulative, and conniving. She has no intentions on getting a job or finding any way to support herself and her child. She uses her child to guilt my boyfriend into enabling her. She takes advantage of people’s good nature, including myself. She is obnoxious and mean. She has a very cold heart. She is lazy and the most unclean person I have ever met. She is a terrible mother (God please forgive me).

She brings so much negative energy into the home that I cannot deflect it. It is making me miserable. I do understand that I am a very sensitive soul and that I am deeply affected by things such as this. I feel that I cannot be myself here. I am overwhelmed.

I am struggling with the decision to leave, but this would entail walking away from someone who does not deserve my abandonment, causing pain to him and to his younger child with whom I have a wonderful relationship with, and healing my own broken heart, when none of this is the result of the relationship that I have exclusively with him, although I understand that is not sensible; it is a result of our relationship together.

I have always thought myself to be one who puts so much faith into unconditional love for others, but I also realize that sometimes that love has to be directed toward ourselves, to the exclusion of others, in order to remain true to who we are and to sustain peace within. There is something that keeps telling me I must remain committed. At what point do we stop being committed when the situation is causing so much pain, even if the relationship that is being had directly between the 2 people involved is healthy and happy?

Thoughts please…

 

[Primalex]

To put it simply, she is manipulative, and conniving. She has no intentions on getting a job or finding any way to support herself and her child. She uses her child to guilt my boyfriend into enabling her.

No.

Maybe she uses her child to guilt her father. But that's actually something different.

What goes on between her and her father is their problem, not yours, including whether she looks for a job or not.

So, what remains is:
"She is obnoxious and mean."

So this is something that you can expect from your boyfriend to solve, to make sure that his daughter is not mean to you. If he is not willing to protect you from attacks, no matter from where, then you should move on for sure.

 

[All_4_Love]

So this is something that you can expect from your boyfriend to solve, to make sure that his daughter is not mean to you. If he is not willing to protect you from attacks, no matter from where, then you should move on for sure.

Thank you, Primalex.

I believe it would be safe to assume that he would protect me from her attacks, yes.

That said, she is passive aggressive, so most of her attacks are often disguised. He works very long hours, and she seems to have a Jeckyll and Hyde type personality where as soon as he comes home, she stops her destructive behavior, for the most part. This would only leave me to bring to his attention the details about what is going on, and I really, really, don't want to do that. She is his daughter. He knows who and what she is.

Also, the youngest daughter, she is very mean to her. It is so painful for me to watch and I am scared of defending the child because it will create conflict in the home, as well as scared to defend myself or say anything when I feel she takes advantage.

I don't do well with conflict. I would rather flee.

She absolutely refuses to clean up after herself. Her baby girl is always filthy. I just cannot stand to watch it. It is heartbreaking. And, I can't stand to live that way but if I continue to clean up after her, I am only enabling her myself.

Do you have any other advice for me? I'm listening with both ears.

 

[midwestyankee]

Have you considered trying to find a way to help this young woman become a better mother? Doing so might be beneficial to both of you.

 

[IrisAlthea]

It seems like it would be a difficult situation for everyone involved.

What does he think about the situation and how it affects the two of you and, perhaps even more, his younger child?

Anyway I think Primalex is spot on about letting him handle his relationship with his daughter and expecting him to keep you out of it.
I say that as someone who learned it the hard way, not with the child of a partner but with the sister of a partner.

 

[CutieMouse]

I see someone who has "written off" a 20 year old young woman (and her infant child), and appears to feel this young woman's behavior to be the result of a "sordid past"... But somehow the young woman's father is operating in a vacuum, innocent as the driven snow.

She isn't making the situation intolerable. His tolerance/enabeling is making the situation intolerable. At that point it isn't really an issue of disliking his daughter; it's an issue of realizing you are in a "healthy relationship" with a man who allows you to be mistreated (by the people in his life).

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[All_4_Love]

Have you considered trying to find a way to help this young woman become a better mother? Doing so might be beneficial to both of you.

Yes, indeed, I have. Each time that I do, she becomes very defensive, or very possessive of the child. She has even taken her away from me and been angry for my holding her and giving her affection. I have encouraged her many times, pointed out ways in which she is being a good mother. I have tried to be a good role model by modeling good mothering behavior, for lack of a better term.

 

[All_4_Love]

She isn't making the situation intolerable. His tolerance/enabeling is making the situation intolerable. At that point it isn't really an issue of disliking his daughter; it's an issue of realizing you are in a "healthy relationship" with a man who allows you to be mistreated (by the people in his life).

Thank you, CM.

 

[All_4_Love]

There is a compromise. You could explain to your partner your discomfort and understand that he is truly in a difficult place and you could continue your relationship but in a 'Living Apart Together ' situation. While it might not be ideal, no way forward at the moment is going to be for all parties, having your space and freedom back and a small sanctuary back for your relationship to prosper in a stress free and happy physical space might benefit both your mental well being, but also his.....not feeling caught between two women he cares for differently, and also give your relationship the private space that is so difficult in any shared situation.

Thank you. This is something I have considered. If I do choose to leave, which I believe is a very good chance, I would like to see if we can attempt this.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[All_4_Love]

I see someone who has "written off" a 20 year old young woman (and her infant child), and appears to feel this young woman's behavior to be the result of a "sordid past"... But somehow the young woman's father is operating in a vacuum, innocent as the driven snow.

She isn't making the situation intolerable. His tolerance/enabeling is making the situation intolerable. At that point it isn't really an issue of disliking his daughter; it's an issue of realizing you are in a "healthy relationship" with a man who allows you to be mistreated (by the people in his life).

CM, I appreciate the wisdom that you have shared here. The one thing that I have really struggled with is that I don't want to be the victim here. I have done much self reflecting. I am trying to ask the right questions. I want to make sure that I have not done something to contribute to the situation, although I realize the situation existed long before I became a part of it. I want to make sure there is nothing that I can be doing differently.

If you were in this situation, are there any other real hard questions that you would be asking yourself? The ones that reveal your truth. The accepting responsibility for your situation questions.

 

[All_4_Love]

My partner and I LAT for part of the week, for different reasons. It might not be our ideal choice but we make it work for us If a relationship is otherwise good and communication clear it works. Of course its in many ways not as pleasurable as curling up with your love in bed every night, but there are other pay offs.

Yes, it is not an ideal situation. And, I am an idealist. I am not real sure how well I would fare in this situation.

 

[Primalex]

Also, the youngest daughter, she is very mean to her.

That's their problem. Make sure the youngest daughter knows that you are there for her, but that's it, until _she_ does approach _you_ to protect her. Then you do this with their father.

scared to defend myself or say anything when I feel she takes advantage.

That's your problem then. If you feel that someone is treating you unfairly, you have to voice this.

She absolutely refuses to clean up after herself.

I continue to clean up after her,

Did she ask you to clean up after her?

Do you have any other advice for me? I'm listening with both ears.

a) Light is only required where there is darkness.

b) It is time to give up when you truly believe you have tried your best and failed.

 

[All_4_Love]

a) Light is only required where there is darkness.

b) It is time to give up when you truly believe you have tried your best and failed.

Thank you, Primalex.

The best teachers are the ones that show you where to look but don't tell you what to see. I appreciate this. I really do. I feel that I have needed confirmation for something that my heart already knows.

 

[pensivepoet]

Love you as always, A4L! (((hugs galore)))
I'm off for that beer now
Looks like you have a lot of good caring counsel to sort through.

 

[All_4_Love]

Love you as always, A4L! (((hugs galore)))
I'm off for that beer now
Looks like you have a lot of good caring counsel to sort through.

Yes, I do!

I think it's time for a beer!

 

[BiBunny]

I'm pretty much the worst person in the world to give relationship advice, so take this with a grain of salt. I do agree with the posters who've suggested you finding a place of your own and trying to continue the relationship if you don't want to break things off altogether.

You have no idea how much easier it is to deal with the things life throws at you when you're not stuck smack in the middle of someone else's drama all the time.

I wish you luck, regardless of what you end up doing.

 

[All_4_Love]

I'm pretty much the worst person in the world to give relationship advice, so take this with a grain of salt. I do agree with the posters who've suggested you finding a place of your own and trying to continue the relationship if you don't want to break things off altogether.

You have no idea how much easier it is to deal with the things life throws at you when you're not stuck smack in the middle of someone else's drama all the time.

I wish you luck, regardless of what you end up doing.

Thank you, BiBunny. Your advice is very helpful.

That is something else that she brings a lot of into the home is drama. It is almost impossible for me to think straight in that situation. I don't do drama. I don't do hostility. I don't do mean-spirited people.

There is so much more out there in this world for us than that.

 

[Trixareforkids]

Hi Love! Pen sent me this way.

Darlin' ya already know what ya want/need to do. I think you're merely looking for reassurance, which can only come from him. The situation is not toleralable to you, therefore you need to extract yourself. Only he can say whether and how that will effect your relationship.

I don't have any real advice to give here. My views on the subject are irrelevant, just as your views on his adult daughter are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that you do not want to live with her and how that effects your relationship with him. Not an easy talk but a necessary one. Sending some love and peace for that discussion.

 

[All_4_Love]

Hi Love! Pen sent me this way.

Darlin' ya already know what ya want/need to do. I think you're merely looking for reassurance, which can only come from him. The situation is not toleralable to you, therefore you need to extract yourself. Only he can say whether and how that will effect your relationship.

I don't have any real advice to give here. My views on the subject are irrelevant, just as your views on his adult daughter are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that you do not want to live with her and how that effects your relationship with him. Not an easy talk but a necessary one. Sending some love and peace for that discussion.

Thank you, Trix. I take everything you have said here to heart. There is real truth in what you have wrote.

Thank you for the love and peace. I need all that I can get right now.

Sending you peace, love, and light. And a real big *hug*

 

[CutieMouse]

Yes, indeed, I have. Each time that I do, she becomes very defensive, or very possessive of the child. She has even taken her away from me and been angry for my holding her and giving her affection. I have encouraged her many times, pointed out ways in which she is being a good mother. I have tried to be a good role model by modeling good mothering behavior, for lack of a better term.

Lets tilt our head and look at it from a different angle...

You're 20, with a questionable background, a 9 month old, and had to move back in with daddy (and his new girlfriend). I can imagine a world in which the 20 year old single mom living with dad (of the "sordid past" + little sister + girlfriend) feels like she A) got a raw deal in the daddy/daughter department and B) has a hard time seeing "good role modeling" as something other than "they think they're better than me [I'm in way over my head, without the skills to realize it or ask for help]".

Compassion.

Compassion doesn't = tolerate abuse, but seriously... if the background is as "sordid" as you've alluded to, that kid's drowning.

Thank you, Primalex.

I believe it would be safe to assume that he would protect me from her attacks, yes.

That said, she is passive aggressive, so most of her attacks are often disguised. He works very long hours, and she seems to have a Jeckyll and Hyde type personality where as soon as he comes home, she stops her destructive behavior, for the most part. This would only leave me to bring to his attention the details about what is going on, and I really, really, don't want to do that. She is his daughter. He knows who and what she is.

<snip>

I don't do well with conflict. I would rather flee.

<snip>

Do you have any other advice for me? I'm listening with both ears.

Bullshit.

Just because she's his daughter, does NOT mean he understands who & what she is.

I thought I understood the bullshit my oldest was pulling when he was 19, but it wasn't until his therapist and I compared notes that we realized he was playing BOTH of us. Once I realized what was going on, I gave him 30 days to straighten up, or move out. He didn't straighten up, and therefore elected to move out. I made sure he understood that as much as I loved him, I would not allow him to treat me as poorly as his father did (when we were married). Love ya, you can visit anytime/the door is open, but you may not live under my roof. Tough love sucks, but it can be a lifesaver.

If you are this torn up over things that are happening under your roof, but aren't openly, honestly, bluntly discussing the situation/how it impacts you with your partner - IMO you have no room to be upset with how you're being treated. He cannot effectively make decisions for the well being of his household (himself, yourself, his younger daughter, his older daughter and his grandchild) without the information necessary to make said decisions.

Yes it's emotional. Yes it's heartbreaking. Yes it's uncomfortable. Yes it's difficult. But are you really arguing that you're in a "healthy relationship" with an amazing guy, when you're seriously considering walking away, instead of saying "This feels toxic and abusive for XYZ reasons (factual, logical examples); I need to know you see XYZ behavior, agree it's intolerable, and deal with it."?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[All_4_Love]

This to me seems very sensible. Uncomfortable to read for op I imagine, but nevertheless, I think, true.

No, not uncomfortable for me to read at all. I needed this type of perspective because it is the very things that I have been struggling with. She is spot on. I am going to reflect on the things CM has said and I will respond later today. I am sure I'll have more questions for her. Thank you, again, CM.

To your first point , and compassion, I'd add this young woman who has had it seems poor role modelling until now, is potentially full of anger or jealousy that this 'good' father was not there earlier and now the love is not in 'her' family. a childish attitude of course, but it seems she has not had the frame work in which to develop more philosophical one.

I could not agree more.

 

[All_4_Love]

I keep reciting the Serenity Prayer. I believe that it is there that I will find the answers that I seek.

To accept the things I can’t change: Her.

To change the things that I can: Accept the situation or leave.

The wisdom to know the difference: Have I been blessed enough with the wisdom?

More than anything, I want to believe that I have approached the situation with compassion. I need to believe that. That said, I also know that you cannot help someone who does not want your help. It’s madness. It’s crazymaking. It’s unhealthy.

There are other people here in this family that do deserve my compassion. We have two innocent children here, with hearts so pure and so full of love, and who don’t deserve to be taught and to be treated so unkind. We have a father who is truly between a rock and a hard place because he has a grandchild that he will not put out on the street, no matter what her mother does. And as much as I hurt for the predicament that he is in, I respect that. I couldn’t put someone out on the street either, especially my own grandchild.

I don’t agree with CM’s assessment that he doesn’t know the situation. I give him more credit than that. I believe that he is fully aware but that he feels he has no choice in the matter. I agree, because his daughter hasn’t given him a choice. She has made it clear many times that she knows her father will not kick her out because of her child. Any efforts to help her only turn into enabling. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

If I sit down with him and converse with him honestly and openly about my feelings and my troubles, he is a man, his instinct will kick in and he will respond with “I need to fix this.” Despite my efforts to be tactful, I am afraid that no matter how I approach things, once I tell him how I feel, he will only hear “it’s either her or me.”

I won’t do that to someone. I won’t put him in a position to feel that he has to choose. Unfortunately, there is no way around it. I must be my own advocate and make that choice for myself. I guess, when it all comes down to it, I choose me. More importantly, the pain of living with someone so jaded is really the most unbearable to me of all, and this I cannot help. A heart that is cold is just that. I don’t know that all of the compassion in the world can help that. I’ve been there and done that. I know the outcome all too well.

My only question here now is the same as when I started this post, when is it time to go? How long do I keep hope alive and stay? And the answer to that is when I feel I have truly given my best.

Today, I don’t feel that I have given my best. There is still inner work that needs to be done on my part. I will take CM’s advice and I will dig down deep, open my heart, and find my well of compassion. I’m not ready to give up just yet. I have to put faith and trust in my own heart and intuition, that when my lesson here is learned, I will know.

Thank you everyone for your responses.