To My Fellow Americans From The South

[SEVERUSMAX]

In recognition of the fact that we illegally and unconstitutionally waged a war of aggression against your sovereign nation from 1861 to 1865, we hereby offer to restore said independence by our own consent.

Therefore, you can have your own country again. You will presumably live under the Confederate Constitution again, so you might want to consider amending it, of course. There are some provisions protecting chattel slavery and prohibiting protective tariffs that you might understandably wish to revise, before someone takes advantage of his or her new legal right to enslave one of your fellow citizens or non-citizens, for that matter.

You might want to consider not bringing back the domestic passport system, of course. And possibly making it legal to build national improvements, though, since we haven't done this ourselves, we can't claim any pragmatic high ground here.

I must admit that I envy you the whole 6-year Presidential term limit and the line-item veto. Hope that it works out for you. You might even have some real leaders and balanced budgets that way. I would recommend that you not dismantle the industries that we conquerors built for you during our illegal military occupation of your country.

I wouldn't recommend resuming in camera sessions of your Confederate Congress. Both your own citizens and ours will be interested in viewing said sessions. Especially the first ones. C-Span will probably be paying you a visit soon.

I also envy you not having to pay an income tax. Come to think, this tempts me to immigrate. What are your naturalization processes? You might want to sign NAFTA soon, so as not to face our Yankee tariffs again. I strongly urge this, in case my immigration plans don't work out. I don't relish the idea of paying duties for Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, RC Cola, Whataburger, or Mickey D's.

It will be interesting when CNN becomes a foreign press/media company, or will it, since Time owns it? I don't advise you nationalizing it, however. Private enterprise works so much better than state-run monopolies, after all. I also urge you to avoid creating a Federal Reserve Bank and to privatize your sections of what has been Amtrak, as well as the TVA.

Whatever you do, though, I strongly counsel you not to join OPEC, not matter how much oil Texas has. Gas is already so damned high for Yankee and Rebel alike, anyway, isn't it?

Just my personal recommendations.

Sincerely,
Your Former Fellow Countryman

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

P.S.

I don't envy you the heavy influence of the religious Right in your country. If there is a compelling reason for staying here in the USA, that might well be one.

They might push for Prohibition soon. Please don't vote for it, since I happen to love Jack Daniels.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In those times the Episcopal Church was the Religious Right, dear.

More importantly, though, there was a firm separation of national & state government.

Most of the crap you whine about in the Confederate Constitution existed in the US, too. Like...in 1861 slavery was legal everywhere in the US. The US didnt aboilish slavery until after the war was concluded.

In 2008 the South would resemble nations like Austria or Italy or Switzerland.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

In those times the Episcopal Church was the Religious Right, dear.

More importantly, though, there was a firm separation of national & state government.

Most of the crap you whine about in the Confederate Constitution existed in the US, too. Like...in 1861 slavery was legal everywhere in the US. The US didnt aboilish slavery until after the war was concluded.

In 2008 the South would resemble nations like Austria or Italy or Switzerland.

If you actually think that was a South-bashing post, you didn't read my other posts and don't know me that well in general.

It was more a tongue-in-cheek post, poking fun at both North and South (for instance, I said that I envied the Confederacy its 6 year Presidential terms and its line-item vetoes, not to mention its lack of an income tax- how was that South bashing).

The one thing that I was deadly serious about for sure was that I am now of the opinion that the Civil War was nothing more than a war of aggression committed against a sovereign nation by, sadly, my own country. It was a precedent for Iraq, if you think about it, because if we could invade a country whose institutions include one evil (slavery), why stop there? There's nothing to stop us invading a foreign country whose institutions included many evils, like those of Saddam's Baathist regime in Iraq.

That being said, I am proud that, having conquered the Confederate States of America, my country did at least do some good with it, like industrializing it at last. Something that would not have happened if the South had never seceded. Either a victorious North or an independent South would do that, but not a South that stayed in the Union of its own will.

The other good, of course, is trying to set the black man on a free and just footing. Sadly, because it was fruit of a poisonous tree (namely foreign invasion and military occupation), emancipation never found the same opportunity that it would have had if the South had embraced it of its own free will.

But that's the trouble with meddling with other countries. You jaundice them against ideas that would in principle be good, because the messenger's faults blinds them to the message.

Read my sign, and you will see that my views aren't exactly hostile to the idea of states' rights and such.

I wonder, however, how you can reconcile fascism with a decentralized view of the federal government and the Constitution? But that's your affair. Not mine.

I am a very hard-line Constitutionalist, to the extreme of believing that anything which the Federal Government does outside of what the Constitution says that it can do is automatically illegal and unconstitutional. That includes many of the ideas of the present Chief Executive, who claims to be a "strict constructionist".

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Considering that four of the last five US Presidents were/are from states of the old Confederacy, and considering their performances while in office, I'm not sure the other states of Union might not start a second Civil War--this one to force the south into succession.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

How I reconcile fascism with a decentralized government is with pragmatism. I'm not fool enough to believe the People can ever act competently or prudently to manage their own affairs. They cannot do it, God bless them.

So what you do is create a large pasture, for them to graze upon, and surround it with an electric fence. Allow them all the vices and decadence they crave, a job, and the essential services, then shoot them if they utter anything like an opinion.

You'll get a few bantam roosters, but 99% of the People will be contented mooley-cows.

It would be delightful if all we needed government for was to repair roads and collect stray cats, but the People demand peonage, and it should be done right if we're gonna do it.

I dont agree that slavery was bad or evil. For the immigrant slave it was a better deal than the death they expected in their homeland. The slavers didnt shanghai sunbathers on holiday, they bought criminals and defeated captives from local warlords. Slavery and death was the consolation prize for the losing team. It still is in Mother Africa.

By and large planters treated slaves humanely. Some were whipped or sold down the river, but none of them rotted away in prison. They were whipped for murder, arson, rape, child/animal abuse...egregious felonies. Their children were cared for. They ate 3 meals a day. Were clothed. Medicated. And afforded plenty of free time. Cotton cultivation was never a 24/7 endeavor. From November thru March there wasnt a helluva lot to do on a cotton farm. None of them went to school then, but they dont go to school now.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm of the opinion the Confederacy was doomed whether it won the war or not.

Had it won the war its central idea would have been, "You can't make me do anything!" The second one Confederate State had a difference with the others the first reaction would be "buh bye. Fuck you!"

The place would have Balkanized, and at a rapid pace. Leaving it wide open for re-conquering. Might not be the Yankees either. Britain and France would have loved to get control of the cotton and tobacco. Even Mexico might have take another grab at Texas.

That may yet come to pass. I regard another American Civil War as a medium possibility.

 

[feeeriek]

Considering that four of the last five US Presidents were/are from states of the old Confederacy, and considering their performances while in office, I'm not sure the other states of Union might not start a second Civil War--this one to force the south into succession.

Rumple Foreskin

um make that 2...last feee recalled massachusetts and connecticut where not part of the south

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm not convinced the South wanted to 'win' the war. In college I wrote a paper about how the South lost all the battles and won the war. I made a good case and got an 'A.'

The South did what Geronimo, Sitting Bull, and Crazy Horse did...they earned the respect of Americans. At the end of the Civil War Robert E.Lee was killing more Union soldiers than were killed in the first 3 years of the fight. The Army of Northern Virginia was a killing machine. At the end, when Lee's men were stacking their muskets at the surrender, General Chamberlain (The Gettysburg Medal of Honor Winner) ordered the Stars & Stripes dipped in respect as the Rebels marched past. One of my ancestors was in Company E, 15th Alabama Infantry, which struggled hand-to-hand with Chamberlain on Little Round Top.

The Indians earned American respect, too.

 

[MarshAlien]

Just so we're clear on this, Washington, D.C. is yours, along with the Redskins and Daniel Snyder?

Deal.

 

[DesertPirate]

Just so we're clear on this, Washington, D.C. is yours, along with the Redskins and Daniel Snyder?

Deal.

As long as you mean they stay with the North, I'm in

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

um make that 2...last feee recalled massachusetts and connecticut where not part of the south

Feee, you're right that only two were born in the south. However, George Sr. moved to Texas right after college (age 28?) along with wife Barbara and their two-year old kid, George Jr.. It just doesn't seem fair to fob them off on Mass. and Conn.

Jimmy Carter: born & still lives in Georgia
Reagan: born and raised in Illinois, moved to California after college
George H W Bush: born in Mass, moved to Texas after college
Bill Cinton: born & raised in Arkansas
George W Bush: born in Conn, moved to Texas when two

Bayou Bill

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

While we're at it:

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Polk, Taylor, Harrison, Tyler, Lincoln, Johnson, Wilson, Truman, Johnson, Carter, and Clinton were from the South. Teddy Roosevelts momma was from Savannah GA.

 

[R. Richard]

The other good, of course, is trying to set the black man on a free and just footing. Sadly, because it was fruit of a poisonous tree (namely foreign invasion and military occupation), emancipation never found the same opportunity that it would have had if the South had embraced it of its own free will.

But that's the trouble with meddling with other countries. You jaundice them against ideas that would in principle be good, because the messenger's faults blinds them to the message.

'Setting the black [people] free.' A wonderful idea. However, there are a few small problems. I lived in the South. Whilst sesarching for a home, I spied a genuine late 1850s bill of sale for a Negro field hand. The price was $750. The value of the Negro field hand was a year's gross income for a skilled worker. Setting the slaves free was an enormous financial burden for the slave owners and would have bankrupted the plantation owners who were the financial underpinning of the southern economy.

OK, they why didn't the North just buy the slaves and set them free? The North couldn't afford to do that. So they caused a war instead.

Now let's look at the situation of the newly freed slaves. Since they were slaves, they owned nothing. They, in general, had no education. [Some house slaves were educated beyond the level of their masters, so that the house slaves could, for instance, play the piano for the enjoyment of their 'betters.'] The slave, in general, had only one salable skill, that of field hand [perhaps cook, or maid.] But where to sell the skill in the post-war depression that afflicted the defeated southern states? Why, obviously, to the plantation owner where they had formerly been slaves. How much did they get paid? Well, the formerly rich plantation owner had been basically beggared by the war and was able to offer only food and the same shack the slave lived in before the slave became 'free.'

After the war, the North mostly washed their hands of the economic problems of the South and the freed slaves. After all, hadn't the freed the Negroes? Just how much could the wretches expect?

Of course, some people in the North did take an interest in the post-war South. Mostly they came bearing carpet bags.

 

[off2bed]

You're gonna let us have our own country, but you're telling us how to run it? Ok, now I see why some countries hate America.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RICHARD

Actually gross income for unskilled farm labor was about $250 a year in 1860.

That said, plenty of planters subscribed to a vocational program called the Fellenbarger System. In a nutshell, slaves were trained to be skilled in a variety of crafts, and plenty of them were virtually free to operate their own businesses, using the planter as a silent partner and guarantor.

One of my ancestors did this. He set up one black man as a construction contractor, another operated a brick kiln, another ran a lumber mill, etc. These men became very prosperous, and my ancestor made money from it, too.

Whites hated it, however. It really let the air out of efforts to create a white middle class in the South.

 

[R. Richard]

RICHARD

Actually gross income for unskilled farm labor was about $250 a year in 1860.

That said, plenty of planters subscribed to a vocational program called the Fellenbarger System. In a nutshell, slaves were trained to be skilled in a variety of crafts, and plenty of them were virtually free to operate their own businesses, using the planter as a silent partner and guarantor.

One of my ancestors did this. He set up one black man as a construction contractor, another operated a brick kiln, another ran a lumber mill, etc. These men became very prosperous, and my ancestor made money from it, too.

Whites hated it, however. It really let the air out of efforts to create a white middle class in the South.

You will note that I said 'skilled worker' and I also referred to the price of a slave.

One of the most prevalent skills for a slave was that of blacksmith. A plantation needed blacksmith services and the easiest way was to train one of the Negro slaves. The slave had a 'business' and did a lot better than a field hand. However, the plantation owner owned the forge and controlled things from a business standpoint.

As you point out, it was very difficult for a 'free white man' to set up a forge and compete with slave labor. That was one of the things that caused anger against Negroes by the whites in the South.

 

[TE999]

Does this mean that great-great-great grandpa's strongbox full of Confederate money and bonds is finally worth something? It's about time, because it's a pain to move and makes lousy wallpaper.

 

[Tricialen]

I'm of the opinion the Confederacy was doomed whether it won the war or not.

Had it won the war its central idea would have been, "You can't make me do anything!" The second one Confederate State had a difference with the others the first reaction would be "buh bye. Fuck you!"

The place would have Balkanized, and at a rapid pace. Leaving it wide open for re-conquering. Might not be the Yankees either. Britain and France would have loved to get control of the cotton and tobacco. Even Mexico might have take another grab at Texas.

That may yet come to pass. I regard another American Civil War as a medium possibility.

I love you, Rob...but you don't understand the South...

Yes, I was born there and yes, we have strong opinions about everything... The war was fought not because of slavery, which was legal everywhere in the states, but economics...the south grew the cotton, sugar, and other goods...the north had the factories and the railroads and the coal mines...the millionaires who liked to control the railroads, shipping, and just about all commerce at that time... we are and were very prideful and just didn't feel that the north understood us, or sympathized with us...

The civil war killed more Americans than any other conflict before or since.

Before the ink was dry on that surrender, northern carpetbaggers flooded into the southern heartland and stole and raped what the war had left behind…and there was no honor in that at all.

The south was decimated of it's young generation... and though we surrendered with southern grace...for some reason the Yankees still like to prod us...

I think they are jealous of the southern way of life...living in their cold, hard climates....sigh....

It was an ugly, sad war...and it seems that it never really
ended...faults belong to both sides but history is always written by the winner... but the south lives on and on....

 

[rgraham666]

Trish? The biggest problem with the American Civil War is that it didn't solve anything. A lot of people died for nothing.

It didn't end slavery, except in law. It just changed to segregation, the effects of which are still felt.

It didn't resolve the issues plaguing the States, which you can see here on the AH everyday. No other nation, from what I've seen, is as deeply divided as the States is.

Sad, all that death and destruction for no purpose.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

"I dont even know what street Canada is on." AL CAPONE

 

[Boxlicker101]

People have been saying slavery was legal throughout the US. That's not true. It was illegal in exactly half the states, which was a balance that had to be maintained. If the "free" states ever outnumbered the states where slavery was legal, the federal government would have made it illegal. The South knew this, and made sure the balance was maintained for that reason.

When slaves escaped and made it across the Ohio River or the Mason-Dixon line, they became free, because slavery was illegal in those states. Remember the melodramas of Eliza crossing the ice of the Ohio River? Remember the Dred Scott decision? He was a slave, owned by a man in Kentuck who took him to Illinois. When they returned to KY, Scott claimed he was free because he had become free by being in IL. Rightly or wrongly, SCOTUS ruled otherwise. Had he walked away while in IL, he would have been a free man.

Are you referring to the Confederacy or to the former slave states? Four of the latter, Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware were not part of the former. Besides those four, West Virginia split of from Virginia and did not join in secession, and remained in the Union.

 

[TitianaPeaks]

I just finished a American Civil War class (I'm a history major, and a former reenactor, as well as a born and bred Southerner)......and my professor actually stated that the South lost because of women writing their men and telling them to desert......I jumped the professor's shit for that idea, and got a B

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BOXLICKER

Escaping to the North didnt make you free. Thats what Dred Scott was all about. Sooooo slavery was legal in all the states because a slave was not a citizen and had no rights and kept his status wherever he lived.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

TP

Jefferson Davis made it clear that the struggle was for Richmond and Washington. If the South captured Washington the war was over because Washington was the US Government. Capture the government and the rest falls apart. Ditto for Richmond.

The South lost because Richmond-Petersburg couldnt get reinforcements or supplies. The railroads were captured or seriously damaged, plus most of the ocean ports were captured.

Even so, Lee came damned close to capturing Washington in late 1864.

If the South had plugged the Cumberland and Tennessee rivers at the start of the war, we'd still be fighting because there wasnt enough Union men to keep Confederate cavalry from destroying Union railroads and caravans to the interior of the South.