TND - aka, Do authors like their butts kissed?

[perfect_deb]

I've never been a fan of the TND (thats nice dear) form of critique - if my stuff stinks tell me so.

I was warned before joining Lit that i'd need thick skin to submit here, but after reading a lot of stories submitted by authors here i'm not so sure......

I've read some really good stuff here - and i mean really good.

I've also read some total shite - poor spelling, poor grammar, endless long boring paragraphs, change of tense (my personal irit) - but in a lot of cases wonderful feedback at the end...?!

The only really cutting feedback i've seen had more to do with subject matter than writing talent.

So i'm wondering what you really want as authors - honest, positive, critical shredding of your work? Or would you prefer a TND and a pat on the head?

oh and btw - i dont want a long list of negative feedback samples!

 

[Carnevil9]

I actually prefer negative feedback. Nobody learns or grows from an attaboy.......Carney

 

[perfect_deb]

I actually prefer negative feedback. Nobody learns or grows from an attaboy.......Carney

as long as it the right kind of negative.

"go to hell and take this filth with you!" just doesnt work for me.........

 

[Carnevil9]

as long as it the right kind of negative.

"go to hell and take this filth with you!" just doesnt work for me.........

I kind of enjoy those pinheads, too. Hey, those readers are out there, we might as well learn to deal with them.

 

[sr71plt]

I'd be happy with a glass of wine and a bag of potato chips.

 

[3113]

So i'm wondering what you really want as authors - honest, positive, critical shredding of your work? Or would you prefer a TND and a pat on the head?

Preferably both

On the one hand, I'm a writer and that means I like to know that I gave someone a good read--that I did my job and someone enjoyed themselves. So, by all means, pats on the head, please! On the other hand, I appreciate good solid criticism. Not "shredding"--THAT is what I want from an editor *BEFORE* I post a story. If I get it after I post a story...then I need a new editor! Still, that doesn't mean anyone should hold back if they feel I really blew it on a story and could have done better.

BUT there in lies the problem with allowing anyone to give me feedback: Most readers don't know more than I do about writing and can't give me useful criticism to improve the story. So if they "shred it"...it's rarely of any use to me. Feedback form some of my fellow and most excellent writers here on the AH, on the other hand, is usually invaluable. When they say I did good, I know it's not just a pat on the head, it's honest praise that can tell me what I did right. And when they critique, I know that they're really seeing a problem that can and probably ought to be fixed, not just having some weird emotional reaction. I value feedback from my fellow authors most of all and it doesn't matter to me whether it's positive or negative, it's constructive, usually very comprehensive, and I can learn from it.

Um...does that answer the question?

 

[perfect_deb]

Preferably both

On the one hand, I'm a writer and that means I like to know that I gave someone a good read--that I did my job and someone enjoyed themselves. So, by all means, pats on the head, please! On the other hand, I appreciate good solid criticism. Not "shredding"--THAT is what I want from an editor *BEFORE* I post a story. If I get it after I post a story...then I need a new editor! Still, that doesn't mean anyone should hold back if they feel I really blew it on a story and could have done better.

BUT there in lies the problem with allowing anyone to give me feedback: Most readers don't know more than I do about writing and can't give me useful criticism to improve the story. So if they "shred it"...it's rarely of any use to me. Feedback form some of my fellow and most excellent writers here on the AH, on the other hand, is usually invaluable. When they say I did good, I know it's not just a pat on the head, it's honest praise that can tell me what I did right. And when they critique, I know that they're really seeing a problem that can and probably ought to be fixed, not just having some weird emotional reaction. I value feedback from my fellow authors most of all and it doesn't matter to me whether it's positive or negative, it's constructive, usually very comprehensive, and I can learn from it.

Um...does that answer the question?

sort of

other groups i've been involved with comprised mainly of writers - in fact they were closed so the public couldnt read submissions - so when you got shredded you knew it!

i guess here you get a lot more feedback and then need to filter it.

 

[neonlyte]

I've never been a fan of the TND (thats nice dear) form of critique - if my stuff stinks tell me so.

I was warned before joining Lit that i'd need thick skin to submit here, but after reading a lot of stories submitted by authors here i'm not so sure......

I've read some really good stuff here - and i mean really good.

I've also read some total shite - poor spelling, poor grammar, endless long boring paragraphs, change of tense (my personal irit) - but in a lot of cases wonderful feedback at the end...?!

The only really cutting feedback i've seen had more to do with subject matter than writing talent.

So i'm wondering what you really want as authors - honest, positive, critical shredding of your work? Or would you prefer a TND and a pat on the head?

oh and btw - i dont want a long list of negative feedback samples!

Negative feed back on Lit most often relates to the readers prejudice than any writing mistakes the author may have made, the latter is generally only picked up by readers who have an interest in the craft of writing and is rarely presented in a negative form.

Posting on other 'writing' as opposed to erotic/porn sites will generate serious negative criticism if the writers craft has not been properly honed - Lit is tame by comparism. A grudging 'that's ok' is often the best one might earn from a dozen responses criticising the finer points of grammar, word selection, sentence construction... all too often by respondents trying to show themselves to be cleverer than the writer. That is where you need a thick skin.

One learns to trust respondents on Lit. You learn whose opinions are worth listening to and there are certainly enough skilled writers here to give objective and sincere critique without attempting to destroy creative writing. We all like a pat on the head and a sticky bun but you have to write something to get the reward and I've not posted a story to Lit for more than a year. My writing effort is currently focused outside of Lit. I am looking for beta readers for a novel length work, particularly with a view as to whether the sexual content is too explicit for main stream publishing.

 

[JamesSD]

The only really cutting feedback i've seen had more to do with subject matter than writing talent.

You nailed it.

Frankly, I think a lot of the site's readers realize that 1) the stories are written by real, unpaid people and 2) the reader couldn't write a better story if they tried.

The end result is the people that comment tend to be the ones who enjoyed the story, and aren't critical of the writing.

I've read plenty of stories (well, first paragraph or twos) that were truly awful. Frankly, it wasn't worth my time to leave critiquing comments.

Still, I have on occasion left what I'd consider "balanced" comments. Things like "I feel like you had a really hot story here, but it could have been better if you had fixed some of the grammar issues..."

That said, I admit that I enjoy TND comments. I'm not a professional writer, and I mainly write for the people who will enjoy my stories.

 

[perfect_deb]

Posting on other 'writing' as opposed to erotic/porn sites will generate serious negative criticism if the writers craft has not been properly honed - Lit is tame by comparism.

that absolutly right.

you guys are pussies compared to some of the crits i've dealt with - line by line, word by word shredding that left me bleading and crawling into a corner to sob quietly.........

 

[Carnevil9]

......Most readers don't know more than I do about writing and can't give me useful criticism to improve the story. So if they "shred it"...it's rarely of any use to me. Feedback form some of my fellow and most excellent writers here on the AH, on the other hand, is usually invaluable......

I don't know about that. Are you writing for other writers? Or are you writing for readers? The non-writing readers may not be as savvy as you'd like them to be, but if they are your target audience, their opinion is the ONLY one that really matters.

Otherwise you are like the merchant or manufacturer who complains that "if only my consumers were smarter, I'd be making a fortune!" Well, your consumers aren't smarter, they are who they are. If they are your customer base, you need to learn to give them what they want to consume......Carney (an unabashed capitalist)

 

[3113]

other groups i've been involved with comprised mainly of writers - in fact they were closed so the public couldnt read submissions - so when you got shredded you knew it!

Ah. But this isn't a writer's group. This is a website that allows people to post and read erotic fiction--of almost any caliber. Anyone can write it, anyone can read it, and, if the author allows, anyone can say what they like/don't like about it whether they know squat about writing or not.

And most of them don't know squat about writing, nor are they much good at critiquing fiction. 99% of those who send feedback or leave comments on stories just like to read erotic fiction.

The AH, here, also isn't a writer's group. It's here so that writers can kick around thoughts and ideas on writing (and other things), not so we can pass around a story for critiques ALTHOUGH, it is common to ask fellow writers for editorial help now and then.

My point is, the "shred it!" maxim really doesn't apply to Literotica comments and feedback. Those writing stories for this site aren't usually trying to become better writers; they just want to post an erotic fantasy of theirs for themselves and others to read.

 

[3113]

I don't know about that. Are you writing for other writers? Or are you writing for readers? The non-writing readers may not be as savvy as you'd like them to be, but if they are your target audience, their opinion is the ONLY one that really matters.

You seem to think an artist can't have it both ways. To that I say: "Shakespeare." Now I'm not and never will be Shakespeare (least I don't think I am or will be), but he was commercially popular during his time, gave people what they wanted, and yet, at the same time, was admired by his writing peers--WHILE he lived and afterwards.

I don't see why giving my readers what they want should mean that I have to sacrifice the respect of my fellow writers. It's a matter of pride for me, a matter of why I'm doing it at all. If I put my name on something--even my pseudonym--I want it to be my best. Not merely adequate. Putting it another way, if I have a choice of putting out a superior product or an inferior product (assuming both will sell equally well), I will put out the superior. I put out the superior because I want the product to last beyond its current shelf-life, and superior products tend to do that. Maybe that makes me a bad capitalist, but writing is a very bad way to make a fortune, so I'm already that.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Oh, Perfect One,

Like most writers trying to get better, I prefer constructive feedback to "atta boy's." However, the latter is way better than no feedback.

One thing I've become wary of is using public comments to mention possible changes to a story. The problem is doing that can sometimes lead to trolls piling on. For those situations, I usually send an e-mail or PM.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Darkniciad]

I'm sure I'm not the only one... When I feel there are more than one or two minor things without a heap of good stuff, I don't leave a PC. I send private (not anonymous) feedback instead. I just don't see the need to slap anyone around on thier public comment board.

 

[rgraham666]

Having grown up in a time and place where the best feedback I could hope for was none, although "You're such an idiot. Why do you bother trying?" was more common, I like the pats on the head.

I'll take the honest critiques that show me how to write better, but I like the positive stuff best of all.

 

[XXNoraJeanXX]

As a new author...

I just edited this. lol

 

[Recidiva]

The fact that the submissions go hand in hand with the forum is the best benefit for me.

I think the misspelled, trolling feedback is funny.

I like the thoughtful critiques from fellow writers, and those are in abundance.

I don't like the TND as much as I like the TWFA (That Was Fucking Awesome!)

I know my writing isn't technically excellent or for everyone. I really do enjoy when I find those few for whom it works the way it works for me, or when they find me. It's a real treasure.

 

[cloudy]

Ah. But this isn't a writer's group. This is a website that allows people to post and read erotic fiction--of almost any caliber. Anyone can write it, anyone can read it, and, if the author allows, anyone can say what they like/don't like about it whether they know squat about writing or not.

And most of them don't know squat about writing, nor are they much good at critiquing fiction. 99% of those who send feedback or leave comments on stories just like to read erotic fiction.

The AH, here, also isn't a writer's group. It's here so that writers can kick around thoughts and ideas on writing (and other things), not so we can pass around a story for critiques ALTHOUGH, it is common to ask fellow writers for editorial help now and then.

My point is, the "shred it!" maxim really doesn't apply to Literotica comments and feedback. Those writing stories for this site aren't usually trying to become better writers; they just want to post an erotic fantasy of theirs for themselves and others to read.

For those that want their story "shredded" - in the best way possible - there's the Discussion forum. Commenters there aren't hateful, but are painfully honest.

 

[MarshAlien]

I need some positive feedback or I would likely give-up. I have been writing for a long time, but I have never been able to share my work with anyone...Lit has made it easy for me to do that and use an assumed name. I do accept the critical comments and grow from them, but I prefer they be constructive as opposed to just mean and hurtful. I actually deleted two negative comments on one of my stories and then immediately regretted having done so. I wish I had left them, but I did read them and I did take them to heart.

You might want to wait a little while before you come over to the Story Feedback Forum, then. We try to give constructive criticism over there, but it might be a little rough for a newbie. Welcome to Lit, btw, XXNoraJeanXX. I will take a look at one of your stories today, and PM you with some feedback.

What does this have to do with wanting my butt kissed? Isn't that an entirely separate question?

 

[jomar]

For those that want their story "shredded" - in the best way possible - there's the Discussion forum. Commenters there aren't hateful, but are painfully honest.

The public comments to stories vary wildly, from drooling anonymous trolls voting zero to long-winded comments from readers moved by the story. The authors I'm familiar with seem to mostly leave one to several sentence PCs.

Most authors seem to like the attaboys, but prefer constructive comments. And, like other have said, praise from authors is more valuable here, as is cc.

The story discussion circle is a place on Lit where you can have your story critiqued. It may not be as (gleefully?) hard core as you're writing site sounds, but while polite, it's blunt and the regulars there are very good.

The story feedback forum is less formal and probably less detailed overall, but also helpful.

Your story can be a darling of Lit, with a nice red H, sitting high on the toplists, but if it's got issues the SDC and SFF will let you know, in a helpful way.


And NoraJean - brace yourself. You're likely to get trolls who vote zero and say mean things because they're drunk and your character didn't have big tits or or had big tits, or didn't get revenge, or got revenge or something like that. It doesn't mean your story is bad or the writing is bad. Really.

 

[Recidiva]

The public comments to stories vary wildly, from drooling anonymous trolls voting zero to long-winded comments from readers moved by the story. The authors I'm familiar with seem to mostly leave one to several sentence PCs.

Most authors seem to like the attaboys, but prefer constructive comments. And, like other have said, praise from authors is more valuable here, as is cc.

The story discussion circle is a place on Lit where you can have your story critiqued. It may not be as (gleefully?) hard core as you're writing site sounds, but while polite, it's blunt and the regulars there are very good.

The story feedback forum is less formal and probably less detailed overall, but also helpful.

Your story can be a darling of Lit, with a nice red H, sitting high on the toplists, but if it's got issues the SDC and SFF will let you know, in a helpful way.


And NoraJean - brace yourself. You're likely to get trolls who vote zero and say mean things because they're drunk and your character didn't have big tits or or had big tits, or didn't get revenge, or got revenge or something like that. It doesn't mean your story is bad or the writing is bad. Really.

I vote low if your story doesn't have a main female character named Recidiva who totally kicks ass and wins the day. Every day. And has a tiara.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

You know I like compliments, but since I dont know the rules of writing and my grammar is shit I'm pretty much taking a stab in the dark when I sit down with a story. So part of the time I like to have someone teach me as well. A good ass kissing never hurt anyone but then again neither does a good ass kicking as long as its for the right reason.

 

[jomar]

I vote low if your story doesn't have a main female character named Recidiva who totally kicks ass and wins the day. Every day. And has a tiara.

Then you'll probably like my story "Diva Kicks Ass and Saves the World from Total Annihilation." The plot line has to do with bad guys trying to steal her tiara, but then she discovers that's only the beginning and the nefarious plan goes much deeper and wider than that. It's quite exciting. And hot.

 

[MarshAlien]

I vote low if your story doesn't have a main female character named Recidiva who totally kicks ass and wins the day. Every day. And has a tiara.

So that's where those votes are coming from. I'm terrible at naming characters.