THREAD JACK: Health Care

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Selena made a good point on another thread. The American healthcare system eats shit. And everyone is clueless how to fix it.

I've worked for more than 40 years. In that time I've experienced most of the healthcare options, either as patient or provider. Its possible to get medical coverage for $30-$40 a month. Or you can pay a fortune for WHOLE HOG CARE. Most employers offer policies that cost about as much as a Mercedes convertible payment.

I dont know, but I suspect employers like the Mercedes policy because it discourages the peons from getting it in their benefit package. I worked one place where $40 a month got you 5 MD visits, 2 ER visits. and 80/20 inpatient.

The solution to the problem, in my humble opinion, is to remove the employer from the loop. That is, your money goes into a medical 401K-like account, and you decide what coverage you want.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Selena made a good point on another thread. The American healthcare system eats shit. And everyone is clueless how to fix it.

I hate it when you agree with me.

 

[epiphany65]

Selena made a good point on another thread. The American healthcare system eats shit. And everyone is clueless how to fix it.

Either clueless about how to fix it or so afraid of anything that even remotely resembles socialism that they'd rather die without healthcare than compromise their ideals and dogma by trying a system that has been proven to work.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EPIPHANY

I think most people distinguish socialism from essential needs.

I've been working for over 40 years and I've experienced the range of healthcare options, either as a patient or provider. You can pay $30 a month for an inpatient policy only or $1000 for carte blanche care. Most employers offer policies that cost about as much as a Mercedes payment or rent for a small apartment.

 

[epiphany65]

EPIPHANY

I think most people distinguish socialism from essential needs.

I've been working for over 40 years and I've experienced the range of healthcare options, either as a patient or provider. You can pay $30 a month for an inpatient policy only or $1000 for carte blanche care. Most employers offer policies that cost about as much as a Mercedes payment or rent for a small apartment.

I'm not so sure of that -- when it comes to The States anyway. Healthcare is an essential need. We're not talking about using taxes for a national daycare program or something. As soon as a Democrat talks about a universal healthcare program the Republicans use the phrase "socialized medicine" in the same breath as they mention Cuba and it scares the crap out of everyone. Obama really shot himself in the foot when he spoke of "spreading the wealth around" although healthcare is what he has in mind, amongst other things. But that phrase conjured up the ghost of McCarthy and people ran screaming for the exits. He needs to learn to coach his words better and stop speaking like a social-democrat. That, or run for office in Canada where his approval rating is around 70% the last I heard.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I'm not so sure of that -- when it comes to The States anyway. Healthcare is an essential need. We're not talking about using taxes for a national daycare program or something. As soon as a Democrat talks about a universal healthcare program the Republicans use the phrase "socialized medicine" in the same breath as they mention Cuba and it scares the crap out of everyone. Obama really shot himself in the foot when he spoke of "spreading the wealth around" although healthcare is what he has in mind, amongst other things. But that phrase conjured up the ghost of McCarthy and people ran screaming for the exits. He needs to learn to coach his words better and stop speaking like a social-democrat. That, or run for office in Canada where his approval rating is around 70% the last I heard.

People's views are going to change. McCarthyism doesn't work with a majority of the population anymore, the way it used to.

I don't always agree with him (or his films) but Michael Moore had a point about equating health care with the fire or police department. Basic health care really is a human necessity that should be provided. And the only real reason it hasn't been changed in this country doesn't have anything to do with fear... it's all about the money.

 

[trysail]

Half the problem is the friggin' ambulance chasers who have got the physicians and hospitals so paranoid that the practice of defensive medicine has vastly inflated costs.

As a case in point, I'm scheduled for a minor procedure this week that will require sedation. My relatively minor problem was discovered in the course of my annual physical examination which occurred five (5) weeks (35 days ago).

As part of the "pre-op" REQUIREMENTS, the surgery center and the anesthesiologists are REQUIRE and are INSISTING that the following be performed within thirty (30) days of the procedure:
(1) ANOTHER complete physical examination,
(2) ANOTHER complete bloodwork panel,
(3) ANOTHER EKG and echocardiogram, and
(4) ANOTHER chest and abdominal x-ray.

ALL of this is completely duplicative and is being required for one simple reason: the physicians are engaging in defensive medicine in fear of the "slip and fall" extortionists— it's ALL CYA and a pure waste of money (I know you will be pleased to know that it happens to be my money because I always select high deductibles when purchasing any form of insurance).

These "pre-op" requirements are a complete waste of time and money; beyond the fact that they are duplicative of those done a mere 35 days ago, my health is excellent with low blood pressure, low LDL, high HDL, low triglycerides resulting from a lifetime of strenuous daily exercise and an inherited iron constitution.

I might as well just write a check directly payable to the Trial Lawyers Association.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

It's possible to get medical coverage for $30-$40 a month. Or you can pay a fortune for WHOLE HOG CARE. Most employers offer policies that cost about as much as a Mercedes convertible payment.

The $30 a month coverage would be for an individual. Not a family. And it covers catastrophic care. And you're stuck paying doctor visits and prescriptions. Unfortunately, you can't find many docs or clinics anymore who will give you a break if you're paying out of pocket, either, unless you live in a big city or urban area.

Last winter, all four of us got strep throat. Of course, not all at once. So that was four separate doctor visits at $80 a pop. Plus antibiotics. Which were about $10 for each prescription. But since they didn't work (we had a resistant strain) we had to pay more for the big guns. $40 a pop. When it was all said and done, without insurance, that was $520 out of pocket cost. And that was for ONE round of strep throat.

For some people that's almost a mortgage payment!

Health care has become cost-prohibitive because of insurance companies and how they drive prices up. And up. And up. It's a vicious circle.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EPIPHANY

But it need not be socialism. It doesnt have to be one or the other.

Analogy time:

Football is not socialism, its a sport. Government builds sports facilities and fans use them. The government makes a few bucks off the building, the fan gets a choice of seats (luxury box to bleachers), and the team makes money.

Government can do the same with healthcare policies. That is, create a provider system with no government involvement, yet the client gets affordable choices. Your employer sends Uncle Sam a check to your account and YOU decide what level of coverage you want. Sam gets a cut to hold your money and pay the insurance companies, but you decide to go with what the employer contributes or to add to it for WHOLE HOG CARE.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA

Youre right, $30 is your ticket into the hospital. Nothing else is covered.

My last employer wanted $768 a month for my contribution to its plan. I did the math and determined that I'd pay $8400 out of pocket before I qualified for 'free' care. Well, I can pay for a ton of services with $8400.

If the employer contribution of half goes into a medical 401K, you have a lot more money to play with than a $30 policy. You might have $300-500 a month to play with, get a family policy you can live with, and not be out one extra dime.

 

[epiphany65]

EPIPHANY

But it need not be socialism. It doesnt have to be one or the other.

Analogy time:

Football is not socialism, its a sport. Government builds sports facilities and fans use them. The government makes a few bucks off the building, the fan gets a choice of seats (luxury box to bleachers), and the team makes money.

Government can do the same with healthcare policies. That is, create a provider system with no government involvement, yet the client gets affordable choices. Your employer sends Uncle Sam a check to your account and YOU decide what level of coverage you want. Sam gets a cut to hold your money and pay the insurance companies, but you decide to go with what the employer contributes or to add to it for WHOLE HOG CARE.

I agree. What I was trying to say was that it seems to me is that conservatives always invoke socialism as a scare tactic to nullify their argument whenever a liberal has a plan for healthcare. Then recently we saw Bush nationalize banks... go figure... Is he going to collectivize sugar plantations next?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

EPIPHANY

No real conservative ever believed Bush is conservative. He's a fucking Perfumed Prince who plays for the ELITES...like Kerry and Kennedy and Pelosi et al. Wall Steet is family owned & operated....that is, its incestuous.

Conservatives hop & dance when bureaucrats do the services, if the agency has a culture of abuse and misconduct toward the public.

We dont generally howl about the military or national parks or Army Corps of Engineers. A few agencies perform magic and are national treasures. The Marine Corps is one of them.