Thoughts on suicide

[BustyTheClown]

Suicide. What drives people to it? Whose fault is it when someone commits suicide? Can any blame be placed outside the person who committed the act? Should we condemn those who take their own lives as cowards and turn the other way? Do we have a right to?

It's a damn tough reality we all have to face at some point in our lives. Some of us struggle with it ourselves, others of us simply experience it through our friends, our media, our culture. Whoever you are, wherever you're from, whatever you do, suicide is something you're bound to form an opinion about, for countless reasons.

Personally, I sympathize with people who have committed suicide. I think they deserve sympathy and understanding, not condemnation. People may call them cowards, they may lose respect for them for "copping out" and bailing out on the only life most of us believe we get. I don't think they are cowards, though -- the people who take their lives out of depression, fear, sorrow, and the deep-seated feeling that life has nothing better to offer them, that it would just be better for them to die.

I could never judge someone harshly for committing suicide. I did not live their life, I didn't share their experiences, I can't judge whether or not they were "justified." It is unfortunate when someone takes their own life, but I don't think I'm in any position to say, "Suicide is wrong. Those who do it are foolish cowards who are better off dead." I don't think anyone's in any position to make such judgements.

What do you think? Try to keep it civil, this is a tough question and we are bound to disagree.

 

[Ice Cold]

Ill make my answer simple. Yes life can suck at times... but when you look at the alternative... an eternity of nothingness. I'll take the sucky life any day.

 

[InnocentAngel81]

I've had a few attemps over the past three or four years and it takes alot to drive a person to do it. but it feels really bad at times when you didnt finish.

 

[coolr]

people that commit suicide are the purest form of cowards and pussies (no pun) on the face of the earth, life never gets bad enough that you have to end it, if all else fails, get a job @ mcdonalds (dunno if i can use copyrighted stuff like that but oh well)

 

[Sillyman]

It's not anyone's fault. Some people just have shitty lives or had shitty coping mechanisms. No we don't have the right to judge them or call them cowards or stupid or wrong. Yeah, life is tough, we've all heard the bumpersticker sayings a billion times. Shit happens.

Some people just cannot deal with the demands of life, and these people are no more "cowards" than paraplegics are "lazy". Most people who judge suicides are in a sense having to say why they would never do that.

I know. Real deep I tried Busty.

 

[fgarvb1]

i was going to post but i stoped to think about all and now i'm not.

 

[Sillyman]

people that commit suicide are the purest form of cowards and pussies (no pun) on the face of the earth, life never gets bad enough that you have to end it, if all else fails, get a job @ mcdonalds (dunno if i can use copyrighted stuff like that but oh well)

Yeah that guy on death row should just go get a job a McDs...or that housewife who gets the crap beaten out of her when she leaves the house...or some guy starving to death in Ethiopia...McDs would fix it.

 

[BustyTheClown]

Ill make my answer simple. Yes life can suck at times... but when you look at the alternative... an eternity of nothingness. I'll take the sucky life any day.

Hm, you make a good point. I guess another facet to look at in the thread is, how do you view death? Do you think people have a soul/consciousness that somehow survives death? If so, what would the "punishment" be for taking your own life?

I don't think people survive death in any way, shape, or form -- unless it's through the memories those who survive you have. Therefore, if life sucks so much that one can't take it anymore, then suicide will just take that away and nothing will take its place. One would simply cease to exist.

A guy in last term's Religious Studies class commented that he didn't think people who commit suicide actually wanted to die, so it was just a waste. Want to know what his reason was? Because he couldn't imagine not existing. Therefore, if he couldn't imagine not existing -- and wouldn't want to not exist -- others couldn't possibly imagine or want it either. I was baffled and angered that he could make such a naive, ignorant statement based on his ponderances over a question that will never be answered. In the scheme of things, I don't really think it's important, either, but that's a subject for another thread entirely.

 

[BustyTheClown]

I know. Real deep I tried Busty.

It was plenty deep, Sillyman -- thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree with everything you said.

However, if you ever doubt the depth of your posts, look over at your title now... "Guru" lets you say pretty much anything and seem deep, even if you're not in reality! Ah, the wonders of Lit.

 

[LukkyKnight]

One person at a tim

Once, a long time ago now, I reached out to a person teetering on the edge of taking their own life. I didn't realize the immediacy of the danger, frankly, I didn't see the gun, or know it was loaded... I am glad instinct told me to stay until I sensed a turn-around.

Should that paralyzed, terminal woman in the U.K. be granted help committing suicide? Perhaps so, but I'll not dwell on the relatively rare case...

Should a depressed person who cannot see their way through to tomorrow be allowed to make an irreversible decision? No. Nobody in their right mind, by definition, chooses to end their life, and I don't want to lose anybody even if I don't know them.

Once it's done, the sympathy should be used to help those left behind, particularly children, but also others who loved or cared for the one we lost.

I don't hear from my friend much anymore, but the light still burns, it did not go out, and others benefit from the continuation of that presence.


Please, if there's even any doubt, do not let go of somebody you think is suicidal. It's always a way of saying, "I just don't know..." and that is no reason to lose them. What is more precious than life?

 

[Ice Cold]

Re: One person at a tim

What is more precious than life?

Exactly.

 

[BustyTheClown]

Re: One person at a tim

Should a depressed person who cannot see their way through to tomorrow be allowed to make an irreversible decision? No. Nobody in their right mind, by definition, chooses to end their life, and I don't want to lose anybody even if I don't know them.

That's a good point to make. But do you think people who are suicidal are really in their "right" minds? I can tell you, if you are thinking of killing yourself, you are not thinking clearly, like you normally would. Which is why I don't think people who kill themselves can be so harshly condemned -- they are just people who feel they have suffered so much, they cannot possibly carry on. That's not normal. That's not "sane."

You're right -- no one in their right mind chooses to end their life; but a suicidal person, by definition, is not in their right mind.

 

[bored1]

Two years ago a friend of mine put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger. He was seperated from his wife, His wife had filed for divorce and wanted to continue living her grand lifestyle. He couldnt handle it. He left two teenagers who are now a mess. At first I blamed his wife for placing incredible demands on him. Now I believe that he took the cowards way out. I have sympathy for those left behind, especially the children who believe they are responsible.

 

[LukkyKnight]

exactly, Busty...

and we cannot be so callous as to let them slip away.

 

[Silverluna]

I don't really have an answer..but I can share my experience...I've "had suicidal thoughts" I knew where Dad's liquor was...where the pain killers were...Or how easy it might be to let the knife just "slip" ....it wouldn't be my fault then...it was an accident! (ha...thats what i wanted to believe)

I've known others who actually tried and failed...and then one night when i was in the fifth grade...my best friend's mom shot herself...while my friend was still in the house...
I don't think that whoever is @ the controls upstairs would condem someone singularly based on their "weakness" ...but then to trash Life...i just don't know....
the poem by E.A. Robinson, Richard Corey, shows how someone who you think might have it all...might be perfect....actually isnt...and is hurting...but doesn't know how to reach out to you.....gives up, not on themselves...but on the hope that someone might love them enough to care....

 

[BustyTheClown]

What is more precious than life?

What kind of life are we talking about here? The life of a normal, healthy child or adult? No, there probably isn't anything more precious than the life of a regular human being. We all suffer, we all go through trying times in our lives, but it generally isn't worth dying over.

But what about a wrongful life, or a life full of suffering beyond belief? Say a young woman is born in a broken home. Her parents beat her, each other, her other siblings. She is molested from infancy by numerous family members. Her mother shuns her, her father doesn't care, she has nobody else who really shows her that they care. She gets pregnant by a young man who doesn't know any better or care, drops out of school, miscarries the fetus. Is fired from her job for doing drugs. Is kicked out of the house, becomes homeless. She is continually shunned by passers-by, makes money by prostituting herself out to drug addicts who can't give her the love she needs. She really has no one to turn to.

Say that if she didn't commit suicide, her life would continue down this same path, without relief. Isn't this a wrongful life? Should she be forced to stay alive simply because someone, somewhere in their warm house with their stomach full and their conscience relatively clear says it is better to live than to die?

I'd say no.

 

[BustyTheClown]

exactly, Busty...

and we cannot be so callous as to let them slip away.

Oh, by no means do I think that we shouldn't counsel those with suicidial thoughts/tendencies and help them think more clearly, help them find something to live for. We should help all we can. But for those who haven't, those who we can't reach, those we don't know -- how can we help them if we don't know them?

My point is more about how we view suicide after it's been completed, not what should be done about those who might commit it, or what we should/shouldn't do to keep them from it. I just tried to narrow down the spectrum a bit so people could digest the thread a little more easily. Less questions for them to answer, less matters for them to ponder.

 

[LukkyKnight]

Condemnation after the fact achieves nothing

...My point is more about how we view suicide after it's been completed..

... Once it's done, the sympathy should be used to help those left behind, particularly children, but also others who loved or cared for the one we lost.

 

[Aphrodisiac]

What do you think?

This past weekend one of my best friends called me and she was in shock because one of her co workers had tried to kill himself. She had mention this co worker before in conversation with me because he was always making her laugh & he was the one who always made people laugh @ work & was always helping others out... etc...

We were discussing the reasons as to why we thought he would want to kill himself. We both drew blanks, we have never had to deal with this sort of situation in our lives.

I feel for people who think suicide is there only answer, I wonder what is going through their minds & I wonder if what they are dealing with @ that moment is so hard that they can not keep on living.

 

[Private Vasquez]

In my opinion, suicide is the most cowardly, selfish and loser-ish act a person can do (of course, going to school and shooting a bunch of people because you got picked on is right up there with it). But I guess some gotta do what they gotta do.

 

[paganangel]

it's great that some people feel that life could never get bad enough to end. i hope these are never the same people trying to talk anyone down. it's like this, the suicidal IS thinking clearly. don't underestimate them. that can be dangerous. their problem is that they have no hope.
you can't tell them they have family to live for because they actually beleive they are doing their family a favor. (even if the family would disagree.)
you can't tell them it will ge better. they know this. it's getting worse again afterwards they are afraid of.
you can't tell them it's not that bad. to them, it is.

they are weak people. yes, i've said it. it needs to be said. we can't be afraid to identify the problem. they are weak. what we need to do is convince them they can be made strong. believe me, they already think they are weak. they believe society needs to thin the herd and that they are doing us all a favor. they think the only reason people are trying to help is because they are conditioned to.


but what do i know? i'm a moron.

"i wish you would step back from that ledge my friend and cut ties to all the lies that you've been livin' in."-3eb

 

[MissTaken]

Most often, people who commit or attempt to commit suicide are struggling with depression...a clinical disorder, many times with physiological roots.

There is no answer to the question, "what was so difficult to deal with....?" For someone who suffers from depression, crossing the street, entering the grocery store, getting up in the morning, etc can be difficult to deal with. They are unable to cope with normal, average every day stressors as they would when feeling strong and healthy.

When someone commits suicide, the professional in me, feels for them, maybe even mourns their loss, whether it is a friend or client. The person that is me, naturally wonders "what was so difficult?" and "what could I have done?"

Judge them by their act? No.

Any loss of life is felt and premature loss of life is tragic.

coolr? IF a job at McD's was effective treatment for depression, many pharmaceutical companies would be in dire straights.

 

[Cirrus]

There was a time in my life where I seriously considered, though I never attempted, suicide. I didn't think I'd be doing anyone a favor, I knew I had worth to at least one person, probably more, but the fact of the matter was that I just couldn't take it anymore. What prompted me not to take my own life isn't of consequence here, and it's deeply personal besides, but had things kept going the way they were, I probably would have done it.

I don't think I was being a coward. I was just fresh out of "coping mechanisms", or emotional reserves. I'd go to bed hurting, I'd wake up hurting, and it just kept getting worse. I wouldn't say if it was clinical depression or not, because it was brought on by things that were going on at the time, and a pill won't fix that. You can't pop a Prozac and your life is perfect again.

It's hard to put into words, but I would have rather been dead and faced an eternity of nothing than go through another day dealing with what was going on at the time. If someone is physically miserable and dying, there are more people out there who would assist them, or at least think they should be assisted in ending their own lives than if someone is emotionally miserable and dying. I don't see too much of a difference having been there.

 

[Northern Lights]

Despite President Bush's speech this week encouraging insurance companies to improve mental health coverage (like they're going to do that on their own), the US does a terrible job of identifying and treating mental illness. I've had first hand experience with a family member's depression and it's not a pretty sight. I can easily see how a person with clinical depression could take their own life.

Are they weak people? I don't think so. Before they get to the point of suicide, most have already suffered a lifetime of unhappiness. Certainly more difficulties than I have ever had to face. I think most have reached the point of dispair and don't have the life-tools to get through just one more day.

I'm most concerned with teenage suicide because a co-workers son killed himself a few years ago. He was an honors student and appeared happy and well-adjusted. How do we reach this age group? What can parents and educators do to identify those in crisis?

 

[paganangel]

Despite President Bush's speech this week encouraging insurance companies to improve mental health coverage (like they're going to do that on their own), the US does a terrible job of identifying and treating mental illness. I've had first hand experience with a family member's depression and it's not a pretty sight. I can easily see how a person with clinical depression could take their own life.

Are they weak people? I don't think so. Before they get to the point of suicide, most have already suffered a lifetime of unhappiness. Certainly more difficulties than I have ever had to face. I think most have reached the point of dispair and don't have the life-tools to get through just one more day.

I'm most concerned with teenage suicide because a co-workers son killed himself a few years ago. He was an honors student and appeared happy and well-adjusted. How do we reach this age group? What can parents and educators do to identify those in crisis?

ok, not arguing here, just pointing out a SLIGHT inconsistancy in your post to prove a point. one of your examples is someone who by your own admission, makes you question their motivation. this hardly seems like someone with a lifetime of hardships.
too often when a term which is cuttingly precise is used, people get defensive. is someone with a poor immune system weak? yes...in that way. another person could be weak physiacally, another mentally, another emotionally. it is NOT an insult. it's just a condition. please understand, i'm just caling a spade a spade in the hopes that we can remove shame and stigma that shouldn't necesarrilly be there. these are things that hinder helping depprissives.

i've often admitted i hate humans. it' not bullshit, i do. i hope some of you realize what i've seldomn admitted, but never denied. i hate human suffering more.