Thoughts on releasing your submissive

[hisdarlingslut]

I am emerging from the end of a year long D/s relationship that began first online and moved to realtime in 6 months, collared 3 months later. This was the first real time either of us played in realtime and also my first submission. He had 3 other shorter online only submissives in the past.

Long story short, he is moving 1000 miles away and as a result of the distance & other factors we would not be able to maintain our relationship.

That is not what this topic is about however....

What I would love to hear from people is - what do experienced (and not so experienced) people feel is the proper way to release your submissive - collared or not? Online vs. realtime? I have learned so much and at this time only know what it felt to be left twisting in the wind with barely an email to close a very important chapter for both of us.

The ironic part for me is this - can you really know what it means to be a true Dominant if you neglect and throw away your toy which you professed to cherish and protect? To me that is either a possessive assclown who thinks he is a Dominant. Lower case dominant as an adjective might be better for such a person in the future. My thought and understanding was that my Dom knew the gravity and responsibility of his role but perhaps it was just an escape...I am not a mind reader so this will forever be a mystery for me as he is unwilling/unable to give the closure I thought would have been more helpful.

 

[CutieMouse]

It's the same as ending any other relationship - sometimes you get the closure you want and need; sometimes, you don't.

 

[Loverskitten]

It's the same as ending any other relationship - sometimes you get the closure you want and need; sometimes, you don't.

I was about to say the same. A D/s relationship is just a relationship.
My last relationship ended in text messages (and I'm perfectly fine with it ending that way)
Times.... they are a changin

 

[blulilacgrl]

Ladies, I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree. I will recognize that you have been in the scene for a lot longer than I have and are much more experienced and that I may be showing a bit of naivete.

Most 'vanilla' relationship do not advocate for the submission of another person. And depending upon your kink, the level of submission varies. All the way to people who want to 'break' his/her sub/slave and then 'rebuild' him/her. Except nothing stops a Dominant from 'breaking' a sub and then disappearing, leaving the sub to rebuild him/herself. And that can be an incredibly difficult and painful life changing experience.

In my very short time the one thing I have discovered is that a sub is encouraged (not only by the Dominant but in some cases by other members of the community) to be much more vulnerable than someone in a vanilla relationship. And that vulnerability amplifies the potential to be hurt in numerous ways.

This is not to say that these relationships cannot be successful but they are different. And I feel that one must recognize that no matter how well you think you know another person... you don't. And sometimes people that you trust and think would never do something douchey, will surprise you. That is the risk you assume in any relationship and it is a risk that is a bit more magnified in a M/s, D/s, TPE, etc type of relationship.

Then again this is just my opinion.

 

[Loverskitten]

Ladies, I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree. I will recognize that you have been in the scene for a lot longer than I have and are much more experienced and that I may be showing a bit of naivete.

Most 'vanilla' relationship do not advocate for the submission of another person. And depending upon your kink, the level of submission varies. All the way to people who want to 'break' his/her sub/slave and then 'rebuild' him/her. Except nothing stops a Dominant from 'breaking' a sub and then disappearing, leaving the sub to rebuild him/herself. And that can be an incredibly difficult and painful life changing experience.

In my very short time the one thing I have discovered is that a sub is encouraged (not only by the Dominant but in some cases by other members of the community) to be much more vulnerable than someone in a vanilla relationship. And that vulnerability amplifies the potential to be hurt in numerous ways.

This is not to say that these relationships cannot be successful but they are different. And I feel that one must recognize that no matter how well you think you know another person... you don't. And sometimes people that you trust and think would never do something douchey, will surprise you. That is the risk you assume in any relationship and it is a risk that is a bit more magnified in a M/s, D/s, TPE, etc type of relationship.

Then again this is just my opinion.

I disagree. Yes, rejection hurts but that doesn't mean that it's different from other relationships.

I know plenty of women who were "broken" after vanilla relationships ended.

"In my very short time the one thing I have discovered is that a sub is encouraged (not only by the Dominant but in some cases by other members of the community) to be much more vulnerable than someone in a vanilla relationship. And that vulnerability amplifies the potential to be hurt in numerous ways."
You're forgetting the #1 rule.... Consent. If one feels too "vulnerable" maybe pull the reins in. I know new relationships can be exciting but ultimately we are responsible for ourselves. Sure the guy may have ended things abruptly, but that's how it is sometimes (with all kinds of relationships) Just because she calls herself "submissive" and he calls himself "Dominant" really doesn't mean much.

When my first D/s relationship ended it hurt, did he owe me something more than when my "vanilla" relationships ended? Nope.

My response may sound callous but D/s does not equil abuse. It's a relationship.
Maybe the OP can use this experience to explore what may or may not work for her in the future. TPE would never work for me for example.

 

[blulilacgrl]

I disagree. Yes, rejection hurts but that doesn't mean that it's different from other relationships.

I know plenty of women who were "broken" after vanilla relationships ended.

"In my very short time the one thing I have discovered is that a sub is encouraged (not only by the Dominant but in some cases by other members of the community) to be much more vulnerable than someone in a vanilla relationship. And that vulnerability amplifies the potential to be hurt in numerous ways."
You're forgetting the #1 rule.... Consent. If one feels too "vulnerable" maybe pull the reins in. I know new relationships can be exciting but ultimately we are responsible for ourselves. Sure the guy may have ended things abruptly, but that's how it is sometimes (with all kinds of relationships) Just because she calls herself "submissive" and he calls himself "Dominant" really doesn't mean much.

When my first D/s relationship ended it hurt, did he owe me something more than when my "vanilla" relationships ended? Nope.

Don't you think that kind of depends upon the 'level' to which two people engage in the BDSM dynamic?

to clarify, I am talking about some of the more extreme limits, those that straddle the very thin line of emotional/psychological abuse. I admit that I think someone who reaches so far into another person's psyche does have a greater responsibility when ending the relationship than someone who has engaged in a casual relationship.

Does that make sense?

 

[ecstaticsub]

I have been in my D/s relationship for over 8 years. It is long distance and we see each other in person every 6-12 weeks depending on job and family circumstances. I can't imagine him releasing me by text or email. Maybe phone if circumstances if something drastic happened. I would think-hope- that whether he released me or I asked for release we could do it in person with some kind of closure.

To hisdarlingslut I'm sorry you are going through this pain. Any break-up without adequate closure would truly suck for me, too.

 

[Loverskitten]

Don't you think that kind of depends upon the 'level' to which two people engage in the BDSM dynamic?

to clarify, I am talking about some of the more extreme limits, those that straddle the very thin line of emotional/psychological abuse. I admit that I think someone who reaches so far into another person's psyche does have a greater responsibility when ending the relationship than someone who has engaged in a casual relationship.

Does that make sense?

No. Abuse is abuse. Not consent.

 

[blulilacgrl]

No. Abuse is abuse. Not consent.

Oh I am not saying that it is abuse. As you point out the difference lies in the the consent of it. But don't you think there are things/practices among the BDSM 'world' that tiptoe right up to that line of consent? Things that kind of dance upon it so to speak.

There are a lot of things that I have witnessed and 1 or 2 that I have experienced that make me think, both parties have a greater responsibility than in a 'vanilla' relationship. As a sub, you need to be much more careful about who you choose to be with because in all likelihood in a vanilla relationship you don't have to deal with practices like fire play, rope suspension, emotional manipulation, mind fucks, orgasm control, conditioning , etc. These can be incredibly dangerous things if they go wrong. And as a Dominant, if you ask for the trust of someone in order to be able to participate in these practices. then yeah you have asked for a very big level of trust and personally I think you are a douche if you willingly do no follow through on your responsibility to make sure that your partner is not left damaged by your actions.

Then again, this is just my opinion. Although I think it does open up an interesting discussion on responsibility not only during the relationship but at the end of it as well.


Ecstaticsub~ I think you mean hisdarlingslut

I was pretty lucky. When my relationship ended, he didn't bolt. In fact he stayed there and endured my very rocky recovery to a point that I could stand on my own. I am not the same person I was before. In fact I don't know what I am any longer really. But I will give him kudos for seeing me through the end of our relationship.

 

[Netzach]

This is an interesting point. As D's we're constantly held to this standard and blamed when people are not left "like campsites" and walking away with closure. I guess that's because we're all big hairy men who don't actually feel things and just need our dicks sucked??? I'm confused about this.

I never FORCED anyone into a physically risky proposition. No, they came knocking on MY door for that. So the idea that this now OBLIGATES me, is quite overplayed and noxious. I am obligated to do what I said I was going to do, NOT do things I never said I was going to do - inform the player of my skills and the risks even with the greatest skill set in the world, and check in and be emotionally supportive of that person to the extent that *I* choose based on my own assessment of their needs and my own willingness to be emotionally involved, not "the community's" needs for a standard.

I was basically perma-ignored without closure as punishment for a changing dynamic amid changing circumstances. I guess the bottom line is that I was supposed to charge in and force the conversation and take the bait and prove how much I cared - but I didn't. I won't. I won't replicate my family dysfunction with someone for the sake of doing all the "right" workshop things. If he chose to ignore me forever - that's his right and it's on him. I'm the poorer for it, but it wasn't up to me.

But the message is that because my vulnerabilities are less important as a D, we don't even DISCUSS this kind of thing among Dominants, and we're not allowed to feel "owed" only submissives are allowed to feel "owed" anything.

Why does a *need* to be sexually and emotionally vulnerable when it gets one's rocks off entitle one to special handling? My sexual needs are a huge ol' millstone around my neck, but it's not the other person's problem or fault.

I find BIG GIFTS really onerous and not a gift at all. If you can't accept the costs of having your needs for vulnerability met, you need to find your own ways to cushion your own blows as part of your OWN emotional/sexual tool kit. You need to lick your own wounds like any other person when that shiny relationship goes to crap.

 

[ecstaticsub]

blulilacgrl ~ yes, sorry. I edited the change

I agree with you for some very extreme cases. There are those O/p or M/s relationships where the slave is told to give up their career, their friends, their family, their finances, driver's license. For those relationships I believe the dominant has a responsibility to make sure the slave can provide for themselves before just dumping them. But even in that case a slave should have had a fall back plan before going into the relationship to make sure they would at least be financially stable.

 

[Netzach]

blulilacgrl ~ yes, sorry. I edited the change

I agree with you for some very extreme cases. There are those O/p or M/s relationships where the slave is told to give up their career, their friends, their family, their finances, driver's license. For those relationships I believe the dominant has a responsibility to make sure the slave can provide for themselves before just dumping them. But even in that case a slave should have had a fall back plan before going into the relationship to make sure they would at least be financially stable.

This, in this case. Both people should be on the same page about contingencies. Contingencies being physical logistical shit like that, not "and you owe me walking away happier than vanilla people walk away." I'd also put a period after "and a slave should have a fall back plan before going into the relationship." Because the best laid plans of mice and men and blah - and if you don't take care of you, no one else can.

 

[Loverskitten]

This is an interesting point. As D's we're constantly held to this standard and blamed when people are not left "like campsites" and walking away with closure.

I never FORCED anyone into a physically risky proposition. No, they came knocking on MY door for that. So the idea that this now OBLIGATES me, is quite overplayed and noxious.

I was basically perma-ignored without closure as punishment for a changing dynamic amid changing circumstances. I guess the bottom line is that I was supposed to charge in and force the conversation and take the bait and prove how much I cared - but I didn't. I won't. I won't replicate my family dysfunction with someone for the sake of doing all the "right" workshop things. If he chose to ignore me forever - that's his right and it's on him.

But the message is that because my vulnerabilities are less important as a D, we don't even DISCUSS this kind of thing among Dominants, and we're not allowed to feel "owed" only submissives are allowed to feel "owed" anything.

Why does a *need* to be sexually and emotionally vulnerable when it gets one's rocks off entitle one to special handling? I find BIG GIFTS really onerous and not a gift at all. If you can't accept the costs of having your needs for vulnerability met, you need to find your own ways to cushion your own blows as part of your OWN emotional/sexual tool kit. You need to lick your own wounds like any other person when that shiny relationship goes to crap.

Yes! You always say things so much more eloquently than I

 

[ecstaticsub]

This, in this case. Both people should be on the same page about contingencies. Contingencies being physical logistical shit like that, not "and you owe me walking away happier than vanilla people walk away." I'd also put a period after "and a slave should have a fall back plan before going into the relationship." Because the best laid plans of mice and men and blah - and if you don't take care of you, no one else can.

Also this sort of situation is not specific to M/s relationships. There are vanilla marriages where one spouse gives up their job to be a homemaker, moves far from family, doesn't make a life of their own and then the marriage doesn't work out and the homemaker no longer has marketable skills. Depending on the state of residency and divorce laws the financial implications can be severe. Not to mention emotional ramifications.

 

[MeekMe]

Hm, relationships whether vanilla or D/s take time to build. It's easy to get caught up in that whirlwind "romance" and jump into things too quickly. Perhaps it should be viewed as a learning experience much like any other relationship/break up.

Jumping in too quickly and baring all right away does leave one vulnerable to "douchey" people. The thing is, those "douchey" people are just people. They have likes and dislikes and should be free to leave any relationship they don't want. It sucks to tell someone it's over and it sucks to hear that it's over.

In my opinion, it's a shitty situation but I don't think anyone is "owed" in a relationship. You just pick up, become stronger, and find a new relationship.

 

[Netzach]

Also this sort of situation is not specific to M/s relationships. There are vanilla marriages where one spouse gives up their job to be a homemaker, moves far from family, doesn't make a life of their own and then the marriage doesn't work out and the homemaker no longer has marketable skills. Depending on the state of residency and divorce laws the financial implications can be severe. Not to mean emotional ramifications.

Absolutely! And I'd say a lot more of those.

 

[blulilacgrl]

This, in this case. Both people should be on the same page about contingencies. Contingencies being physical logistical shit like that, not "and you owe me walking away happier than vanilla people walk away." I'd also put a period after "and a slave should have a fall back plan before going into the relationship." Because the best laid plans of mice and men and blah - and if you don't take care of you, no one else can.

That is mostly what I am talking about. While I agree... we don't ever come out of a relationship 'pristine and unchanged'. That is the nature of life and I get that.

But there are things in BDSM that are just different. For example mind control and conditioning for certain activities. I spoke with a women who had been so completely conditioned when her owner left that she was unable to orgasm. He had trained her to orgasm at his command. That to me is a big responsibility that one takes on (the mental and in some case physical reactions of people) and yeah if in the end you don't want to continue a relationship all well and good. But undo some of the things you have done before you walk away. Does that make sense? (This does not exempt her from the responsibility of accepting the risk of playing in this particular area. But to my mind, he also holds some of it.)

You bring up an interesting point about the responsibilities of a sub to the Dominant. I will have to think on that a little bit.

 

[Loverskitten]

I was pretty lucky. When my relationship ended, he didn't bolt. In fact he stayed there and endured my very rocky recovery to a point that I could stand on my own. I am not the same person I was before. In fact I don't know what I am any longer really. But I will give him kudos for seeing me through the end of our relationship.

To me, this senerio, would extend the hurt.
My last relationship ended through text messages as life threw some curveballs at our relationship. I'm certain, if we broke things off in person, we'd have ended up naked.

I have friends who "stalk" their exes Facebook pages. Me? Nope, I don't even want to know. It's over. I guess I'm kind of hard-hearted.

 

[Netzach]

That is mostly what I am talking about. While I agree... we don't ever come out of a relationship 'pristine and unchanged'. That is the nature of life and I get that.

But there are things in BDSM that are just different. For example mind control and conditioning for certain activities. I spoke with a women who had been so completely conditioned when her owner left that she was unable to orgasm. He had trained her to orgasm at his command. That to me is a big responsibility that one takes on (the mental and in some case physical reactions of people) and yeah if in the end you don't want to continue a relationship all well and good. But undo some of the things you have done before you walk away. Does that make sense? (This does not exempt her from the responsibility of accepting the risk of playing in this particular area. But to my mind, he also holds some of it.)

You bring up an interesting point about the responsibilities of a sub to the Dominant. I will have to think on that a little bit.

As an EH/recreational hyp fan this kind of thing pisses me off to no end. And I educate and advocate around this. But ultimately - calling a douche move a douche move doesn't impact anything, does it? You're still going to have to re-condition conditoned people and the best thing you can do is give people the information to re-condition themselves. I find this important - rather than them just going to the next douchebag with inflated self importance to re-train their orgasm onto them. She's actually better off having to un-do it herself rather than perpetuating the duration of the idea of his power over her. It's too easy to build up the notion that the person who UN-DID this intense thing is still connected to you.

Let's say the dysfunction runs both ways - it's too easy for me, as a female Dominant, to be exploited by the obligation of having to interact with a male submissive for one blessed second LONGER than I choose, no? So....why does this change so very much if I'm not female ID'd?

Svengali is a hot playtime scenario, but conditioning and hypnosis fans owe it to themselves to de-mystify some of the nuts and bolts, and submissives should actually be in on this process rather than refusing to listen lest the magic be ruined. I see the fingers go into the ears and I see the technique discussions turn into a boys club or a dom's club at best.

 

[blulilacgrl]

To me, this senerio, would extend the hurt.
My last relationship ended through text messages as life threw some curveballs at our relationship. I'm certain, if we broke things off in person, we'd have ended up naked.

I have friends who "stalk" their exes Facebook pages. Me? Nope, I don't even want to know. It's over. I guess I'm kind of hard-hearted.

I will admit that it was rather difficult and there were times where I wondered if it would be better to just cut him off and never look at him in any way. But we were friends for a long time before we were anything else. And I think that ultimately we were able to make our way back to that. Still a bit rocky but improving.

To be honest I think we were both surprised at the level to which I became subservient. It completely upended my life. And when the relationship ended I had no idea what to do. I went into a tailspin and having him there to kind of talk me through it and even listen to me rant, well it helped me to find my feet again. Make no mistake I am not the person I was before. I am a lot harder but with a deeper understanding of myself.

 

[blulilacgrl]

As an EH/recreational hyp fan this kind of thing pisses me off to no end. And I educate and advocate around this. But ultimately - calling a douche move a douche move doesn't impact anything, does it? You're still going to have to re-condition conditoned people and the best thing you can do is give people the information to re-condition themselves. I find this important - rather than them just going to the next douchebag with inflated self importance to re-train their orgasm onto them. She's actually better off having to un-do it herself rather than perpetuating the duration of the idea of his power over her. It's too easy to build up the notion that the person who UN-DID this intense thing is still connected to you.

Let's say the dysfunction runs both ways - it's too easy for me, as a female Dominant, to be exploited by the obligation of having to interact with a male submissive for one blessed second LONGER than I choose, no? So....why does this change so very much if I'm not female ID'd?

Svengali is a hot playtime scenario, but conditioning and hypnosis fans owe it to themselves to de-mystify some of the nuts and bolts, and submissives should actually be in on this process rather than refusing to listen lest the magic be ruined. I see the fingers go into the ears and I see the technique discussions turn into a boys club or a dom's club at best.

Totally see your point. Each person has a responsibility. And that is kind of my point. Because unlike most vanilla relationships, the BDSM community has these extreme cases. And so yeah, there are times when the people within a BDSM relationship have a bigger (and sometimes tougher) job when it comes to the end than those in a vanilla relationship. Not all, mind you but some.

I am still thinking about the sub's responsibility to a Dom. That really is an interesting thought.

 

[CutieMouse]

I still say that sometimes you are lucky enough to get closure, and sometimes you aren't.

I've had power-based relationships end without closure; one of which left me with orgasm struggles (I'd been conditioned to only climax from X). It sucked, and it hurt. I grieved and learned from the experience, and moved on.

I've had power-based relationships end with closure. It sucked, and it hurt. I'm in the grieving and learning stage from one of those endings as we speak; I will grow and move on.

As to submission creating a more vulnerable space - I was *more* at risk and vulnerable when I ended my marriage. Yes, there are extreme cases, but I'm just callous enough to look at those with a little bit of a "you asked for this" attitude. Life is not a work on fiction - if you want that level of enslavement, you better damn well be willing to do the un-sexy strategy and contingency plan work that goes along with it.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Also this sort of situation is not specific to M/s relationships. There are vanilla marriages where one spouse gives up their job to be a homemaker, moves far from family, doesn't make a life of their own and then the marriage doesn't work out and the homemaker no longer has marketable skills. Depending on the state of residency and divorce laws the financial implications can be severe. Not to mention emotional ramifications.

This.
Ultimately you are responsible for yourself.

I do think it is unfair and irresponsible to put someone else in a vulnerable position (even if they are a willing accomplice) and then abandon them without helping them get back on their feet.
People are often unfair and irresponsible though and even the best people with best intentions can die on you or get in a situation where they are unable to take responsibility for anyone else.

It does suck sometimes of course, but I'd say the alternative would be worse.

 

[Primalex]

Not that I wouldn't enjoy watching a cat fight here and there...but...

Are you seriously trying to determine whether getting impregnated and dumped is worse or better than getting conditioned and dumped?

 

[Primalex]

What I would love to hear from people is - what do experienced (and not so experienced) people feel is the proper way to release your submissive - collared or not? Online vs. realtime?

The proper way is the way that does not cause any delays and misconceptions.

If "the nice and proper way" takes 3 weeks for the person to prepare, get courage for, find the "perfect" timing etc. pp., then I really would prefer the immediate email.

You are not going to prevent the 5 stages of grief, if it's not a consensual break and you are not going to prevent the "How the fuck could he do this to me?" stage, no matter what the other person does.