Thought about making ratings more helpful

[EddieTheBastard]

Would other writers find it useful if some form of feedback other than the rating were required for ratings under 4 stars? Obviously it would have to be anonymous to keep the 'raters' rating honestly and freely.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Would other writers find it useful if some form of feedback other than the rating were required for ratings under 4 stars? Obviously it would have to be anonymous to keep the 'raters' rating honestly and freely.

Do you mean the reader would have to give a rationale for their vote, either by description or a checklist?

I think all it would do is discourage people from voting.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with Melissa and as it is a lot of readers don't seem to want to vote, let alone comment.

I also, and maybe this is me, think this is something along the lines of feeling no vote under a four is legit, which isn't true

Some people need to accept the fact not everyone is going to like your story and vote accordingly.

 

[SimonDoom]

No.

The site, for good reason, is not going to do ANYTHING that makes it harder to vote.

I question the premise, as well -- that there's something presumptively suspect about scores of under 4. There's not. If a 1-5 scale exists, then plenty of stories should deserve 1s, 2s, and 3s.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Would other writers find it useful if some form of feedback other than the rating were required for ratings under 4 stars? Obviously it would have to be anonymous to keep the 'raters' rating honestly and freely.

Why only for ratings under 4 stars?

I doubt this would get anything constructive out of people who aren't already commenting. They'll just write "this story sucked, 1*".

 

[lovecraft68]

Why only for ratings under 4 stars?

They'll just write "this story sucked, 1*".

And I see plenty of those, no need to ask more people for their opinion.

 

[Voboy]

Would other writers find it useful if some form of feedback other than the rating were required for ratings under 4 stars? Obviously it would have to be anonymous to keep the 'raters' rating honestly and freely.

This clearly reflects the "red-H-centric" view so many of us seem to have: that a 5* vote is the only one that indicates actual approval, since it's the only one that leads to a red H.

At that point, why not modify your proposal? Just make it a binary option: thumbs up or thumbs down, nothing in the middle? Since that one high vote is the only one that matters?

Bottom line: the posters above are right. This would decrease voting overall. It's also meaningless unless the site publishes some sort of guidance on what the various stars "should" mean to a voter, which the site should not do. The voters vote their judgment, and you're just not going to reach them all.

Learn to take some pride in your 3.9 or 4.3 scores. They don't mean your story sucks.

 

[lovecraft68]

If a 1-5 scale exists, then plenty of stories should deserve 1s, 2s, and 3s.

This doesn't seem to apply to contests anymore as in the past people could place with scores in the low to mid 4.8's and now we have winners as high as 4.96 which TBH is ludicrous, its literally saying no low vote was legit in anyway.

 

[SimonDoom]

This doesn't seem to apply to contests anymore as in the past people could place with scores in the low to mid 4.8's and now we have winners as high as 4.96 which TBH is ludicrous, its literally saying no low vote was legit in anyway.

Presumably, stories submitted for contests are on average of better quality than stories overall. But I agree, the scores get so high as to be silly. I get the feeling there's a fairly aggressive sweep system in place during the contests, and then the sweep system falls away after the contests are over. I had a story that in August won the 2021 "Toy" category. It was in the high 4.7s when it won, and now it's dropped down to 4.7. At this point, I don't care in the slightest, because it's so completely obvious that there are factors that influence the score that have nothing to do with inherent story quality. It has made no difference to how many people read the story or enjoy it. I'm amazed that there's still so much kerfuffle about scores.

It's nice to win a contest. I'll grant that. But if that's off the table, why would anyone care whether their story has a 4.85 or a 4.81 score? But people seem to.

It's perfectly legitimate to give a story a low score if it's not good. That's the way you help potential readers figure out which stories to read. That purpose is not served by eliminating 1s, 2s, and 3s.

 

[Lifestyle66]

People might "like", "dislike", or think a story is average (2 thru 4).

If they must justify "hating" it with a 1, then to be fair, those "loving" it with a 5 should also need to say why it's perfect.

You'll find many stories on this site receiving 5's with the stories riddled with grammar and spelling errors or inconsistencies in the story line, making them far from perfect.

 

[lovecraft68]

Presumably, stories submitted for contests are on average of better quality than stories overall. But I agree, the scores get so high as to be silly. I get the feeling there's a fairly aggressive sweep system in place during the contests, and then the sweep system falls away after the contests are over. I had a story that in August won the 2021 "Toy" category. It was in the high 4.7s when it won, and now it's dropped down to 4.7. At this point, I don't care in the slightest, because it's so completely obvious that there are factors that influence the score that have nothing to do with inherent story quality. It has made no difference to how many people read the story or enjoy it. I'm amazed that there's still so much kerfuffle about scores.

It's nice to win a contest. I'll grant that. But if that's off the table, why would anyone care whether their story has a 4.85 or a 4.81 score? But people seem to.

It's perfectly legitimate to give a story a low score if it's not good. That's the way you help potential readers figure out which stories to read. That purpose is not served by eliminating 1s, 2s, and 3s.

Part of the drop for a contest winner is pissed off people running off to bomb it. All winners drop somewhat, but some really drop. I placed in Nude day in I/T a few years back and I think it had a 4.85 at the time it quickly dipped to low 4.7's and hasn't come up much since, and with a few hundred votes, it took a good effort to get that down so far so fast

 

[Imstillfun]

My theory there are only two measured. People like it, people didn’t. if that’s the case then anything above a 3 is a win. More than 1/2 the voters liked your story. Under 3 you either wrote poorly or missed your audience.

 

[SimonDoom]

Part of the drop for a contest winner is pissed off people running off to bomb it. All winners drop somewhat, but some really drop. I placed in Nude day in I/T a few years back and I think it had a 4.85 at the time it quickly dipped to low 4.7's and hasn't come up much since, and with a few hundred votes, it took a good effort to get that down so far so fast

It's probably also true that when you win a contest, you attract the attention of readers or fellow authors who might not ordinarily read your stuff, but they decide to because you won a contest, and they read it, and they just decide it's not their cup of tea. I'm sure there are many readers and fellow authors who don't think my stuff is their cup of tea, and it's perfectly OK for them to express that view in a score if they genuinely feel that way. What I've found is that it does not in any way affect my ability to continue to reach out and finders who like what I write, and that's what matters.

 

[NotWise]

The best way -- in fact, the only way -- to get a better voting system is to change your expectation for the system we already have. Some writers want the rating to be based on critical value, which it is not and never will be. The reader's votes seem to be based on whether they like you and/or your story. Liking your story has everything to do with content and category and very little to do with critical value.

This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

If you want a lower rating, then offend as many readers as you can, and give them boring content and content that conflicts with the category that it's published in.

If you want a higher rating, then make friends with your readers and give them entertaining content that's consistent with their expectations.

It helps if you write well, because that makes it easier to entertain people. I'm not sure there are many other values in writing well, however you want to define "well."

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The problem with rating is that people give 4-5 stars to stories they 'liked', not to stories they thought were good regardless of the theme and kinks. The main issue is that some stories get undeservedly low rating and thus get skipped by many readers who would potentially enjoy them. The average reader, we have to face it, follows the rating and the red H. The trouble is that there is no better system Literotica could use... Every system is prone to bias, popular taste, etc. So they can basically keep this imperfect system that does give us some way of navigating through the stories, or just remove rating and let us find our own way through so many stories that get published every day.

For a while I thought it would maybe work if rating was removed and the system of simple likes ( no dislikes ) introduced, but that would lead to even bigger bias, as mediocre stories in popular categories would get much more likes than great stories in less popular categories... Maybe this system above would actually work if Red H was given based on number of likes and adjusted to the general popularity of given category... It would require admins to analyze the data and properly 'weigh' the categories... It might be worth a try idk.

 

[lovecraft68]

The problem with rating is that people give 4-5 stars to stories they 'liked',.

If they liked it, doesn't that mean they thought it was good? Most readers aren't here to critique grammar or prose, or even how far it stretches reality, so if the knee jerk reaction was "Hey, that was pretty good" that's worth a good vote to them.

Conversely if they dislike it, then no vote or a low one.

Other than faction of LW-who do slink around into other categories looking for those nasty and FICTIONAL cheating wives or husbands letting their FICTIONAL wives have sex with others, the site if fairly soft voting, most stories here are 4 or over, so how tough of a crowd can it really be?

 

[Lifestyle66]

If your stories are getting poor ratings, my suggestion would be to submit them for editing prior to publishing them.

The issue under discussion is about the "trolls" who deliberately open stories which have descriptions they should KNOW they'll hate, merely to rate it a 1 and leave a nasty comment.

Regardless of the quality of grammar and story flow, etc, those trolls will 1-bomb stories which obviously would trigger them. Write a "swinger" story and title it: "Swinger Couple has Fun", with a description line: "Husband and wife watch each other fucking others", and the trolls will open and 1-bomb the daylights out of it.

Now, who in their right mind would open such a story, unless they are into that fetish? (Answer: Haters!)

 

[KeithD]

Just drop the red H altogether and let readers decide for themselves if the rating given is good enough for them to give it a read. The actual rating wasn't given for each story for years here. Now that it is, the red H isn't needed.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

If they liked it, doesn't that mean they thought it was good? Most readers aren't here to critique grammar or prose, or even how far it stretches reality, so if the knee jerk reaction was "Hey, that was pretty good" that's worth a good vote to them.

Conversely if they dislike it, then no vote or a low one.

That was exactly my point. 'Liking' and thus giving 4 or 5 stars is linked to the fact they liked the story theme, the sexual kink or whatever, while the story itself could have been poorly written. I suppose they also give 1-2 stars to stories whose theme and kink they dislike, yet the story itself could have been worthy of Hemingway

 

[SimonDoom]

Now, who in their right mind would open such a story, unless they are into that fetish? (Answer: Haters!)

The answer is, people who are looking for that kind of story. I think you underrate the ability of readers to find the stories they want to read.

If all, or nearly all, "hot wife" type stories get bombed, then readers will adjust their expectations. The readership for those stories isn't going to go away, and they're not going to read another category of stories just because those stories get higher scores than "hot wife" stories. They want hot wife stories, and they'll read them, whatever the scores are. I think the evidence, if you dive into it, seems to support that. These types of stories get bombed and get nasty comments, but they get high views and they still get favorites.

"Unless you are into that fetish" -- that describes most Literotica readers, I think. I don't get the sense that readers are thinking, "I want to read the highest-rated story I can find, regardless of category." I think they're looking for particular types of stories, and they'll choose the most appealing-looking stories of those types that they can find, even if the scores are lower than they are in other categories.

I concur with KeithD that at this point the red H creates more mischief than it's worth, and encourages unhelpful gamesmanship in scoring, and it would be better if it were dropped, but I see no chance of that happening because I think the Lit owners like to preserve traditions that people have gotten used to. They would be concerned, with some good reason, at user backlash if they got rid of those traditions.

There are ways that the scoring system could be improved, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.

 

[Lifestyle66]

The answer is, people who are looking for that kind of story. I think you underrate the ability of readers to find the stories they want to read.

If all, or nearly all, "hot wife" type stories get bombed, then readers will adjust their expectations. The readership for those stories isn't going to go away, and they're not going to read another category of stories just because those stories get higher scores than "hot wife" stories. They want hot wife stories, and they'll read them, whatever the scores are. I think the evidence, if you dive into it, seems to support that. These types of stories get bombed and get nasty comments, but they get high views and they still get favorites.

"Unless you are into that fetish" -- that describes most Literotica readers, I think. I don't get the sense that readers are thinking, "I want to read the highest-rated story I can find, regardless of category." I think they're looking for particular types of stories, and they'll choose the most appealing-looking stories of those types that they can find, even if the scores are lower than they are in other categories.

I concur with KeithD that at this point the red H creates more mischief than it's worth, and encourages unhelpful gamesmanship in scoring, and it would be better if it were dropped, but I see no chance of that happening because I think the Lit owners like to preserve traditions that people have gotten used to. They would be concerned, with some good reason, at user backlash if they got rid of those traditions.

There are ways that the scoring system could be improved, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.

You are either misreading what I said or misconstruing it just to post.

Readers who like and are into that fetish will search for those types of stories.

Readers who HATE that type of fetish ... seem to also search for those types of stories.

I would think Literotica readers are here to find things they like. One merely wonders WHY some people spend their time searching to hate. But I know there are also those who enjoy being the victim in a BDSM flogging, so there is that.

 

[Imstillfun]

Most readers aren't here to critique grammar or prose,

i know I write stories to be used as masturbating material. I think that’s what most of my readers are there for.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

One merely wonders WHY some people spend their time searching to hate. But I know there are also those who enjoy being the victim in a BDSM flogging, so there is that.

You are totally dissing a legit fetish

 

[NotWise]

That was exactly my point. 'Liking' and thus giving 4 or 5 stars is linked to the fact they liked the story theme, the sexual kink or whatever, while the story itself could have been poorly written. I suppose they also give 1-2 stars to stories whose theme and kink they dislike, yet the story itself could have been worthy of Hemingway

And what's wrong with that?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

And what's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with that, if readers interpret the rating appropriately... Which isn't really the case in my opinion. I can say it for myself actually. I was an occasional reader here for a long long time before I decided I might try to write something and share it. For most of that time I misinterpreted every single statistics here. I thought red H was given by moderators to stories they thought were really good. Ha ha, actually when I published my first story and it got its red H the first day, I was totally high on it, thinking some admin who read it, decided the story was worth the red H. I also thought that rating = story quality. Also I had no idea about the popularity of certain categories, thus I automatically thought writers with many followers must be good and so on and so on.
In order to understand Literotica's rating system, you at least need to have some interest in learning it. I had zero such interest at the time and it led me to false conclusions. That is all I am saying. I believe many readers do not really understand what rating, red H, followers and so on, represent and that leads to false conclusion, like in my case