Those Who Trade Security for Freedom...

Lost Cause

It's a wrap!
Joined
Oct 7, 2001
Posts
30,949
This speaks for itself;

A new ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll finds that more than two-thirds endorse President Bush's call for a homeland security department. Nearly as many, 64 percent, support broader FBI authority to monitor public places such as libraries, places of worship and Internet chat rooms — even thought most see this as an intrusion on privacy rights.
The administration also wins support for its claim to have improved intelligence handling since Sept. 11. While seven in 10 say U.S. intelligence agencies mishandled pre-Sept. 11 intelligence, nearly as many, 67 percent, give positive grades to the way such information is being handled today. (Fifty-three percent also doubt the Sept. 11 attacks could have been prevented, given what was known.)

Concern about future threats is the backdrop for public sentiment on these issues. Today 55 percent of Americans, the most since Sept. 11, lack confidence in the government's ability to prevent further attacks — up more than 20 points since the night of Sept. 11, as the nature and extent of the dangers have come more sharply into focus.

Support for Intrusion

At times of national crisis the public's priority is the mitigation of threat. Seventy-nine percent say it's more important right now to investigate terrorism, even if that means intruding on personal privacy. Just 18 percent say it's more important not to intrude on privacy, even if that limits counterterrorism efforts.

More specifically, most Americans support expanded FBI surveillance authority even though the majority, 62 percent, sees it as an encroachment on individual privacy rights. Even among those who see it as an intrusion, 52 percent support it anyway.

Still, as in the past, this poll underscores the public's preference for such intrusions to be as targeted and limited as possible. Among those who think the new FBI authority does not intrude on personal privacy, 86 percent support it. Among those who think it intrudes "somewhat," 61 percent support it. But among those who think it intrudes "a great deal," support plummets to 30 percent.

Sept. 11 Intelligence Handled Poorly

As noted, 71 percent give a negative rating to the way intelligence agencies handled pre-Sept. 11 intelligence, while 67 percent rate the current handling of such intelligence positively. Still, that positive rating is far from a perfect one — 56 percent say the agencies are doing a "good" job analyzing and sharing intelligence, but just 11 percent say their performance is "excellent."

Bush, for his part, continues his extraordinary ride in public support, with an overall job approval rating of 77 percent. That's held steady for about the last two months, after declining from a peak of 92 percent in October, a record in modern polls.

Bush, Security Get Good Ratings

Bush's approval rating ranges from near-unanimity among Republicans, 96 percent, to 63 percent among Democrats. Support for his proposed Department of Homeland Security, similarly, is broad among Democrats (64 percent) and vast among Republicans (88 percent). Even among conservative Republicans, traditionally skeptical of expanding government, 87 percent support the plan.

Conservative Republicans are most apt to support expanding FBI surveillance powers (75 percent do so), and least apt to think this intrudes on privacy rights (49 percent). Among their political opposites, liberal Democrats, far more — 74 percent — see this as intrusive. But a majority, 56 percent, still supports it.

More broadly, 81 percent of conservative Republicans say it's more important right now to investigate terrorism than to steer clear of intrusions on personal privacy. And on this, 80 percent of liberal Democrats agree.

Methodology

This ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll was conducted by telephone June 7-9 among a random national sample of 1,004 adults. The results have a three-point error margin. Field work was done by TNS Intersearch of Horsham, Pa.


Previous ABCNEWS polls can be found in our PollVault.
 
Security for freedom..

Had to think a little on the thread title didn't 'cha? Had to think of the actual quote from B. Franklin? Hmmmmmm? :D
Good! I'm doing my part!
 
well fuck this...

I'd rather be free than locked up in this cage of protections i don't even think will have an effect...
 
Re: Security for freedom..

Lost Cause said:
Had to think a little on the thread title didn't 'cha? Had to think of the actual quote from B. Franklin? Hmmmmmm? :D
Good! I'm doing my part!

CB had that quote in her sig line for the longest time. I think it might even still be there.
 
Most are sheep...

A vast majority of people sell their very souls for things and security........ You need a lot a sheep for a few wolves who want to run free.....
 
97% of people who participate in ABCpolls believe the father of our country was George Jefferson.
 
Another thing to consider is that I don't think the ABC news polls are that scientific. I don't think that many of americans are really that stupid I of course could be wrong because underestimating stupidity in large numbers is a grave mistake.
 
it's a shame.....how polls seem to govern a politician's actions....'good ole' Clinton needed to have a poll about what to name his dog.....should he go on vacation.....ect....

What ever happened to just doing the right thing....even if its not popular?
 
Wow. A poll of 1004 random people. Out of a nation of millions. With no one actually in politics quoted.
 
Silverluna said:
it's a shame.....how polls seem to govern a politician's actions....'good ole' Clinton needed to have a poll about what to name his dog.....should he go on vacation.....ect....

What ever happened to just doing the right thing....even if its not popular?

Because you don't get reelected that way and thats what politicians do is get reelected.
 
Sillyman said:
Wow. A poll of 1004 random people. Out of a nation of millions. With no one actually in politics quoted.

That is about enough to get a good reading though. 1000-1500 people truly polled at random is about as accurate as you can get for polling. That should give you a + or - 3% error rating.

Of course I wonder how the exact questions were worded because the wording of a question can influence the answer.
 
*frown* But COME ON!!! a Poll about what to name your bitch (i mean dog....poor buddy) how is that political?


Speaking of polls....Bush's approval ratings.....my my how high they shine.
 
Silverluna said:
*frown* But COME ON!!! a Poll about what to name your bitch (i mean dog....poor buddy) how is that political?


Speaking of polls....Bush's approval ratings.....my my how high they shine.

Did you see the two polls I did about bush at his one year mark?

One was a job approval poll and the other was rating him as a person. Not that they were at all scientific but they were still interesting.
 
polls

not to my knowledge.....

i've kinda shyed away from politics in general (on the lit boards)
My conservative views seem to get me in trouble. Ill just laugh and point as everyone makes their mistakes....:p
 
The polls showed basicly about what I thought they would at least in my interpretation.

The job aproval rating had Bush getting mostly A's and B's. Thats about what I expected. The poll ranking how you thought of him as a person looked more like a negativly weighted normal curve. Most of the answers were in the neutral to negative range. That is about how I think the public looks at bush. They think he is doing a good job right now but they don't particularly like him as a person and don't trust him too much.
 
a poll is a poll....

still....its a poll...a popularity contest....no actual scientific facts
 
Re: a poll is a poll....

Silverluna said:
still....its a poll...a popularity contest....no actual scientific facts

Umhhh scientific polls are facts for the most part. Of course they can be maniuplated if the questions are done poorly or if they are not truly random but they are incredibly accurate if they are done properly. My poll was of course not scientific because it was not a random sample and the sample was not nearly large enough.

You need a 1000-1500 size sample to get an scientificly accurate reading from a population.

Do you not trust polls because of the exit polls from the last election that showed Gore winning? People lied in those polls which is why there were so far off. Exit polls are normaly incredibly accurate even more so then normal polls which have a plus or minus 3% accuracy.
 
Azwed said:
I don't think that many of americans are really that stupid
I believe and think that most Americans are indeed that stupid. I have know very few truly wise people when it comes to such issues. Most people don't think, they feel, and that is evident in how they express themselves; they usually say "I feel we should do this" or "I feel that", rather than "I think" or even "I believe".

So why do I have more confidence in the general populace than the "experts" (the pols and bureaucrats)? Because on the whole the general populace, when left to its own designs usually inadvertantly comes upon the correct conclusion and applies it (general systems theory), whereas those small group of self appointed experts that are attempting to manipulate the populace are no more prone to being correct than the rest of the populace, but because they are in power that power works as a force multiplier, in most cases becoming a stupidity multiplier.
 
I don't really care what "most Americans" think anyhow. There was a time when most Americans thought slavery was just dandy. That didn't make it right.

There are principles this country stands for. Those principles are more important than the agendas of politicians and the data of pollsters.
 
Laurel said:
I don't really care what "most Americans" think anyhow. There was a time when most Americans thought slavery was just dandy. That didn't make it right.
I care because what they "think" (if you can call it thinking :rolleyes: ) is usually what gets implemented as policy, and that affects me, sometimes seriously. It is one of the reasons why I work at explaining the way I think to anybody that will listen. As Jefferson and Adams said, the battle is not fought and won with arms, the battle is for the hearts and minds of the people.

"The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people... This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution." - John Adams

There are principles this country stands for. Those principles are more important than the agendas of politicians and the data of pollsters.
They are important yes, but what people think is also important because we do not have a perfect system of government that inspires pols to lead, rather we have a system that motivates politicians to form policy on the basis of popularity polls. We don't have leaders in office, so if we are to remain free, we must educate and change people's minds as to the correct path.

"A society will remain as free or as enslaved as the conscious dispositions of individuals determine it shall be. Just as the roots of oppression are found in passivity, the foundations of our liberty reside in highly energized and focused minds that insist upon their independence. There are no shortcuts, no structures or doctrines that can be erected, no hallowed documents to be revered, to save us the effort of continually challenging those who would presume to exercise authority over our lives." - Butler Shaffer

"... it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds ..." - Samuel Adams
 
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