Those Evil Voting Machines...

[Zeb_Carter]

http://home.comcast.net/~dcs283/devil_voting_machine_ani.gif​

Those Evil Voting Machines...

There's just one week to go until Election Day, and already the hysteria is mounting...over voting machines. After the 2000 debacle in Florida, governments across the country have bought these electronic voting machines. But the media and Democrats, always pushing the "disenfranchised" lie, are trying to portray them as hard to use and inaccurate. After all, how can normal people be expected to use a voting machine? What if they vote for the wrong person?

Think about that position for a minute. Just about every person walking our streets has used an ATM machine. We use computers at home....which are much more complicated than any voting machine. People use self-serve grocery check-out stations. They pay at the pump for their gas. The voting machines are not complicated. They are not hard to use. But that's not the real issue here anyway.

I want you to consider the possibility that the real issue that Democrats fear is that the machines just might be accurate. For decades, Democrats have been propelled into office by election fraud. That is, people voting twice...dead people voting...people being paid off and told who to vote for, etc. The electronic voting machine gets rid of a lot of that. Computers are absolute...they only do exactly what people tell them to do...not what some Democratic precinct chief wants.

And then there's the whole issue of the soft bigotry of low expectations. Shouldn't the people who Democrats say are too dumb to work the machines be offended?

 

[oggbashan]

It could read like this:

I want you to consider the possibility that the real issue that Republicans fear is that the machines just might be accurate. For decades, Republicans have been propelled into office by election fraud. That is, people voting twice...dead people voting...people being paid off and told who to vote for, etc. The electronic voting machine gets rid of a lot of that. Computers are absolute...they only do exactly what people tell them to do...not what some Republican precinct chief wants.

Why doesn't the US public insist that elections are managed by an independent body with no interest in the result except that the election is free and fair?

Many so-called banana republics have fairer elections than in the US.

Og

 

[Zeb_Carter]

It could read like this:

I want you to consider the possibility that the real issue that Republicans fear is that the machines just might be accurate. For decades, Republicans have been propelled into office by election fraud. That is, people voting twice...dead people voting...people being paid off and told who to vote for, etc. The electronic voting machine gets rid of a lot of that. Computers are absolute...they only do exactly what people tell them to do...not what some Republican precinct chief wants.

Why doesn't the US public insist that elections are managed by an independent body with no interest in the result except that the election is free and fair?

Many so-called banana republics have fairer elections than in the US.

Og

Yep.

 

[3113]

Trick or Treat!

*Knock* *Knock* *Knock*

Trick or Treat Post!

Person who started the thread will please provide candy to the postee

 

[neonflux]

LOL. On a more serious note:

New Princeton study of Diebold Machines

Concerns in the Netherlands

Concerned voters in Ireland

Verified Voting's list of who can watch elections in which state

And last but not least, also from Verified Voting...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q91/cleasf/MapVVPRaudits_half.gif

Neon

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The problem with electronic voting machines is the same problem as occurs on the internet - hackers. During the 2004 elections, hackers got into the Dibold system online and fucked the voting in Ohio and Florida. The new version voting machines are "stand alone", that is not connected to the internet. However, I did see an article several weeks ago where a university figured out how to hack those too.

All in all, electronic voting machines are a bad deal, but the Republican Party loves them.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

*Knock* *Knock* *Knock*

Trick or Treat Post!

Person who started the thread will please provide candy to the postee

Here ya go, take a handful!

http://www.hotfact.com/images/candy.jpg

 

[3113]

Here ya go, take a handful!

http://www.hotfact.com/images/candy.jpg

Oooooo! Thank you, Mister! On to another thread.....

 

[glynndah]

Here ya go, take a handful!

http://www.hotfact.com/images/candy.jpg

Hey, mister! That looks like last year's Christmas mix. Got any chocolate?

 

[R. Richard]

It could read like this:

I want you to consider the possibility that the real issue that Republicans fear is that the machines just might be accurate. For decades, Republicans have been propelled into office by election fraud. That is, people voting twice...dead people voting...people being paid off and told who to vote for, etc. The electronic voting machine gets rid of a lot of that. Computers are absolute...they only do exactly what people tell them to do...not what some Republican precinct chief wants.

Why doesn't the US public insist that elections are managed by an independent body with no interest in the result except that the election is free and fair?

Many so-called banana republics have fairer elections than in the US.

Og

The problem with voting in the US is mainly concentrated in the big cities. In a big city, people often do not know anyone who does not live on their block. Thus, in many big cities, there are vans that take poor young people from precinct to precinct to vote again and again under a new alias in each precinct.

In a small town, people know each other. Thus, a van full of unknown unyoung people pulling up to a precinct if just not going to work. The people in the town know the young people are not from their town and not eligible to vote. [They also know that Phieas Phinstermacher died 20 years ago.]

The Democrats are strong in the big cities, where most of the fraud takes place. The Republicans are strong in the small towns where less fraud takes place. It is not that the Republican are more honest than the Democrats, it is just harder to cheat in Republican territory.

 

[Guest]

Thus, in many big cities, there are vans that take poor young people from precinct to precinct to vote again and again under a new alias in each precinct.

I have never, ever heard of that in any media, or political blog, left or right.

Can you cite a reputable report of that happening? Points if it includes more than one incident, never mind the widespread practice you seem to be indicating.

I'm asking, not challenging. I am curious about this.

 

[Guest]

Think about that position for a minute. Just about every person walking our streets has used an ATM machine.

Zeb,

Would it be okay with you if your banks' ATM didn't print a receipt for you?

 

[sophia jane]

http://home.comcast.net/~dcs283/devil_voting_machine_ani.gif​

Those Evil Voting Machines...

There's just one week to go until Election Day, and already the hysteria is mounting...over voting machines. After the 2000 debacle in Florida, governments across the country have bought these electronic voting machines. But the media and Democrats, always pushing the "disenfranchised" lie, are trying to portray them as hard to use and inaccurate. After all, how can normal people be expected to use a voting machine? What if they vote for the wrong person?

Think about that position for a minute. Just about every person walking our streets has used an ATM machine. We use computers at home....which are much more complicated than any voting machine. People use self-serve grocery check-out stations. They pay at the pump for their gas. The voting machines are not complicated. They are not hard to use. But that's not the real issue here anyway.

I want you to consider the possibility that the real issue that Democrats fear is that the machines just might be accurate. For decades, Democrats have been propelled into office by election fraud. That is, people voting twice...dead people voting...people being paid off and told who to vote for, etc. The electronic voting machine gets rid of a lot of that. Computers are absolute...they only do exactly what people tell them to do...not what some Democratic precinct chief wants.

And then there's the whole issue of the soft bigotry of low expectations. Shouldn't the people who Democrats say are too dumb to work the machines be offended?

A couple of things:

First off, the biggest election scams in recent years were done by Republicans and aided Republicans, so stop pointing fingers at the Dems like we're all crazy for being pissed off at the way votes are cast.
Second- you're trying to isolate the voting system concerns and make it just about voting machines. Not all precints have up-to-date computers or fancy equipment, and there is a very real possibility of voting problems at these, as well as at the computerized ones. It's not about the voters being dumb, it's about crooked politicians fucking with the numbers. Were you absent in 2002???
Which brings me to the other thing, and I agree with Og. There ought to be an independant system instead of an elected official in charge of the voting systems. I don't think the whole 2002 debacle in Florida would have turned out the way it did if the system had been objective, rather than supervised by a Republican.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Zeb,

Would it be okay with you if your banks' ATM didn't print a receipt for you?

Of course not, but my state isn't one that won't be printing out how I voted so I can verify my selection.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

Of course not, but my state isn't one that won't be printing out how I voted so I can verify my selection.

and can you verify that it gets tallied properly on the memory card? there's already been too much funny business with diebold machines, and they don't even give the appearance of being unbiased. as you said above, computers do whatever people (the programmer) tells it to do. they could just as easily tell it to tally your vote for the other guy, and give you a receipt that has your actual vote on it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

and can you verify that it gets tallied properly on the memory card? there's already been too much funny business with diebold machines, and they don't even give the appearance of being unbiased. as you said above, computers do whatever people (the programmer) tells it to do. they could just as easily tell it to tally your vote for the other guy, and give you a receipt that has your actual vote on it.

Sure it could, but I'm not one of those conspiracy nutjobs.

 

[Guest]

Sure it could, but I'm not one of those conspiracy nutjobs.

Wait until its "From the White House today, President Hilary Clinton..."

Then I suspect, you'll find lots of conspiracies...

 

[oggbashan]

...Which brings me to the other thing, and I agree with Og. There ought to be an independant system instead of an elected official in charge of the voting systems. I don't think the whole 2002 debacle in Florida would have turned out the way it did if the system had been objective, rather than supervised by a Republican.

I see the problem in more general terms. Even if the supervisor is scrupulously honest and tries to the best of their ability to run a fair election the fact that they are either Republican or Democrat means that many people are going to believe that the system is biased, when it isn't. People need to have confidence that the elections are fair. They are unlikely to have that confidence when the person in charge has been elected on a party ticket.

Og

 

[Kandi]

Think things have gotten bad for Diebold and friends?

HBO has just announced that they will be debuting Hacking Democracy, the long-awaited documentary film by Simon Ardizzone, Robert Carrillo Cohen and Russell Michaels, on November 2nd — just days before millions of Americans will head to the polls to use all-new untested, inaccurate, hackable, electronic voting systems for the first time.

THURSDAY, NOV. 2 (9:00-10:30 p.m. ET/PT) – less than a week before the midterm elections – exclusively on HBO. Other HBO playdates: Nov. 5 (9:00 a.m.), 7 (9:00 a.m., 6:30 p.m.), 13 (12:30 p.m., 10:00 p.m.), 18 (6:00 p.m.) and 26 (1:15 a.m.).HBO2 playdates: Nov. 4 (noon), 7 (11:45 p.m.), 10 (6:30 p.m.) and 15 (3:00 a.m.).

 

[Guest]

Think things have gotten bad for Diebold and friends?

HBO has just announced that they will be debuting Hacking Democracy, the long-awaited documentary film by Simon Ardizzone, Robert Carrillo Cohen and Russell Michaels, on November 2nd — just days before millions of Americans will head to the polls to use all-new untested, inaccurate, hackable, electronic voting systems for the first time.

THURSDAY, NOV. 2 (9:00-10:30 p.m. ET/PT) – less than a week before the midterm elections – exclusively on HBO. Other HBO playdates: Nov. 5 (9:00 a.m.), 7 (9:00 a.m., 6:30 p.m.), 13 (12:30 p.m., 10:00 p.m.), 18 (6:00 p.m.) and 26 (1:15 a.m.).HBO2 playdates: Nov. 4 (noon), 7 (11:45 p.m.), 10 (6:30 p.m.) and 15 (3:00 a.m.).

Too bad it is HBO. I don't take them.

 

[Boxlicker101]

All politicians are crooks but when it comes to election fraud, I believe Dems are more successful in their fraud Reps. Not that they are more dishonest but, as R. Richard said, they have more opportunity. There may or may not have been chicanery in Ohio and Florida in 200 and 2004, but I would bet anything there was plenty in Chicago.

What I don't like about voting machines is the lack of a paper ballot trail. They could rather easily be set so that a percentage of votes for Candidate X go to Candidate Y. They should be set to operate much like a cash register. Issue a printed or punched copy to the voter who checks it for accuracy and drops it into a ballot box, and simultaneously record the votes in its memory banks. After the polls close, the precinct workers would secure the paper copies in case a recount is needed.

In Chicago, of course, they would probably still figure out a way to cheat.

 

[JamesSD]

The problem with voting in the US is mainly concentrated in the big cities. In a big city, people often do not know anyone who does not live on their block. Thus, in many big cities, there are vans that take poor young people from precinct to precinct to vote again and again under a new alias in each precinct.

In a small town, people know each other. Thus, a van full of unknown unyoung people pulling up to a precinct if just not going to work. The people in the town know the young people are not from their town and not eligible to vote. [They also know that Phieas Phinstermacher died 20 years ago.]

The Democrats are strong in the big cities, where most of the fraud takes place. The Republicans are strong in the small towns where less fraud takes place. It is not that the Republican are more honest than the Democrats, it is just harder to cheat in Republican territory.

LOL. ROFLMAO! WTF?

Seriously, what planet do you live on? Do you think this is 1920's Chicago, or we're living in Gangs of New York?

You have to be REGISTERED to vote at a particular precinct. They check your name off, check your ID, etc.

Anyways, did anyone else catch that story about how Republicans are suddenly concerned about voting machines now that Hugo Chavez has controlling interest in one of the major companies?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I find it hard to believe that there was no Republican tampering in Ohio and Florida. The Florida Election Chairman is currently serving prison time for election fraud and there is an on-going election fraud investigation in Ohio.

The problem with electronic voting machines is LACK OF PAPER TRAIL. Your computer could be hacked as well as every electronic voting machine in the world. And how would you know?

And I don't agree that all politicians are crooked. I would say that Parties are dishonest, that there are individual politicians who are crooked and that there are non-elected governmental employees who are equally criminal.

Notice that every state has it's own election laws and their own officials to oversee the election process? That's what's really wrong with the system. There should be a national policy (law?) to cover how elections are run, audited and varified. Every state should be run the same.

 

[Tuomas]

For all the great "Democracy" that is the US, you certainly have a very screwy election system Someone pointed out that some "banana repulbics" have better voting systems. He's right.

Besides, the voting machines are entirely unnecessary. Paper ballots allow the results to be in instantly, as well.

Here's an alternate system:

Voting in this country is supervised by an independent electoral institution known as TRICEL (lots of countries around here have this, too). However, they don't do any vote counting. In fact, it's the voters who count their own votes.

In any given county, voters are divided up in "tables", or voting stations. 350 people vote at each table, and are all added chronologically to the books. Those 350 people then elect a president, secretary, comisar and two directors who actually carry out the election. Aditionally, every party or candidate sends a guardian to each table to supervise the election process. The table comission, including the party representatives, inspect the area, cards, ballots and everything else. They insure there is no outside preasure, everyone votes according to procedure and no one's vote is forced or watched. Voters are checked with their ID card, and their voter registration card against two sets of records; one is the original inscription they made when they registered to vote, and another is a current listing of people who have been disallowed to vote. The person's name, ID number, signature and thumbprint are taken. When the voting is finished, the comission counts the votes publicly, and the results are published at the voting station for all to see. They are then sent to TRICEL to be compiled. Additionally, the party representatives at the table each get a signed, certified copy of the election results from the president and secretar, so they can each make their own independant count. The president is elected every three election cycles by the voters at his table.

Even so, there is still election fraud, and every election at least one person is put into jail. You'll never have a perfect system, but it's really hard to cheat that one.

 

[TheOlderGuy]

did anyone get to see Hacking Demicracy last night on HBO?