This Should Scare The Tar Out Of You...

[Zeb_Carter]

The government will have to borrow nearly 50 cents for every dollar it spends this year.

Borrowing implies that it will one day be paid back. With interest. Actually, it has to be paid off. Much of that debt is owned by foreign governments. That debt will have to be repaid. Some of the debt is held by Americans ... and the government can easily just ignore that. After all ... the government owns us. We work at the pleasure and for the pleasure of the political class. Whatever wealth we produce, they own. In their infinite wisdom they'll allow you to keep just enough of your wealth to encourage you to keep working so that you can keep funding them. It will be the same for your children and your grandchildren. There's a huge multi-trillion debt to be paid ... thank goodness the government has the assets to cover that debt. Your children.

 

[Dragonlipz]

The government will have to borrow nearly 50 cents for every dollar it spends this year.

Borrowing implies that it will one day be paid back. With interest. Actually, it has to be paid off. Much of that debt is owned by foreign governments. That debt will have to be repaid. Some of the debt is held by Americans ... and the government can easily just ignore that. After all ... the government owns us. We work at the pleasure and for the pleasure of the political class. Whatever wealth we produce, they own. In their infinite wisdom they'll allow you to keep just enough of your wealth to encourage you to keep working so that you can keep funding them. It will be the same for your children and your grandchildren. There's a huge multi-trillion debt to be paid ... thank goodness the government has the assets to cover that debt. Your children.

Congrats for your grasp of the obvious - we're in deep shit. And we're owned by the big boys. Is the government to blame? Yes. Are they the only ones to blame? Maybe.
You hated Bill Clinton but he turned it around and left your hero (dubya) with a surplus. A surplus that was promptly given to the richest corporations.
So why do you think that our legally elected president's plan won't work? Or would ya rather go with your boy bush's plan? Which was????
And what is your plan, except to keep throwing BS at the situation?
I voted for the guy and think he has the best plan for moving forward.....

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Congrats for your grasp of the obvious - we're in deep shit. And we're owned by the big boys. Is the government to blame? Yes. Are they the only ones to blame? Maybe.
You hated Bill Clinton but he turned it around and left your hero (dubya) with a surplus. A surplus that was promptly given to the richest corporations.
So why do you think that our legally elected president's plan won't work? Or would ya rather go with your boy bush's plan? Which was????
And what is your plan, except to keep throwing BS at the situation?
I voted for the guy and think he has the best plan for moving forward.....

You might want to go back and do your accounting course over again...there wasn't a surplus...it was a paper transfer from the SSA to the general fund. So when I retire, in not to long a time, I will get nothing of the 7.5 % of everything I have earned since I was 16 back, thank you very much.

 

[TE999]

The government will have to borrow nearly 50 cents for every dollar it spends this year.

Borrowing implies that it will one day be paid back. With interest. Actually, it has to be paid off. Much of that debt is owned by foreign governments. That debt will have to be repaid. Some of the debt is held by Americans ... and the government can easily just ignore that. After all ... the government owns us. We work at the pleasure and for the pleasure of the political class. Whatever wealth we produce, they own. In their infinite wisdom they'll allow you to keep just enough of your wealth to encourage you to keep working so that you can keep funding them. It will be the same for your children and your grandchildren. There's a huge multi-trillion debt to be paid ... thank goodness the government has the assets to cover that debt. Your children.

This massive expenditure of funds is what the majority of Americans who voted wanted, Zeb. I don't think this is exactly what they evisioned would happen, but there you are. The rest of the population is along for the ride.

 

[amicus]

Dragon whatever it is, is an Alt, for one of the 'usual suspects', Zeb, and in my opinion, not worth responding to as it is all negative.

I watch and listen to the news every day, to renown economists and financial experts, and each agree that the astounding debt being assumed by this administration will be fatal to freedom, if not the nation itself.

I 'feel' there is a good chance that the very least that will happen politically, is a viable third party to challenge the established two party system. It will be of a conservative nature, one returning the nation to the vision of the Constitution.

There is a 'states rights' movement afoot now, I don't expect it to do much more than galvanize those of like mind to move to some sort of action against increased government control.

I sorely wish I had a radio program to give voice to this movement; perhaps I will come out of retirement after all.

Amicus

 

[Dragonlipz]

You might want to go back and do your accounting course over again...there wasn't a surplus...it was a paper transfer from the SSA to the general fund. So when I retire, in not to long a time, I will get nothing of the 7.5 % of everything I have earned since I was 16 back, thank you very much.

I don't have to. I know full and well what the surplus was and what it wasn't.....I still stand by my statement.....Dubya sent five trillion to the corporations.....coulda bought a few elections for that kind of money....and a mideast country.......oh! wait! we did! on false pretenses, yet!
and i thought it all was just a bad dream brought on by some food poisoning.....

 

[Dragonlipz]

Dragon whatever it is, is an Alt, for one of the 'usual suspects', Zeb, and in my opinion, not worth responding to as it is all negative.

I watch and listen to the news every day, to renown economists and financial experts, and each agree that the astounding debt being assumed by this administration will be fatal to freedom, if not the nation itself.

I 'feel' there is a good chance that the very least that will happen politically, is a viable third party to challenge the established two party system. It will be of a conservative nature, one returning the nation to the vision of the Constitution.

There is a 'states rights' movement afoot now, I don't expect it to do much more than galvanize those of like mind to move to some sort of action against increased government control.

I sorely wish I had a radio program to give voice to this movement; perhaps I will come out of retirement after all.

Amicus

Doncha wish that I was an 'alt'? You should be so lucky. You're just pissed because I can see through your bullshit, and don't have any qualms about pulling yer card.....Chew on that Bitch!

As for your renown authorities: FIXED NEWS......quite the experts there....

Please do come out of 'retirement' and send your golden tones to the enlighten the masses....they so yearn for your knowledge.....

Jeez, what a putz.........

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think today was the first time Wall Street realized 6 million people are unemployed, and out of work people spend as little money as possible.

I think, too, that the worst is coming, and I'm concerned about the Chinese wanting their money back, and what they'll do when we dont pay them what we owe.

 

[DeeZire]

I think, too, that the worst is coming, and I'm concerned about the Chinese wanting their money back, and what they'll do when we dont pay them what we owe.

Not a problem, JBJ. We'll just give them Texas.

 

[Handley_Page]

Sorry, folks, but the US of A is not the only one in a financial mess. THe UK has a bit of a problem, too (and most of the rest of the EU). Things might have been slightly different if, for example, the 'debt' owed by the USA to the World Bank (?)had been paid off, at least in substantial part.

I just hope that the idiot Bankers, those fellahs who sold on debts, etc., and sold to folks who could not afford a house, the Hedge Fund managers, etc., all get their comeuppance and real soon.

The South Sea bubble was nothing compared to this one!

 

[ishtat]

Most regular people find it pretty difficult to get their heads around the current financial crisis and that is understandable, they particularly do not understand why such enormous sums of money have been thrown at banks and motor companies etc.

This debt crisis is however wakening another elepehant in the room which the average person understands all too well.

INFLATION: the first signs are emerging and within the next twelve months or so this will become the issue which will effect and be understood by the ordinary voter. It is sensible to expect inflation rates not seen since the 70's. It is also almost certain that this inflation will be coupled with low or negative economic growth and high unemployment ie. stagflation. No chief executive will have an easy ride with inflation probably in the 15 to 20 % range (my guesstimate)

I cannot see that any party from any part of the political spectrum has any strategy to cope with this scenario but an incumbent government facing elections between 2010 and 2012 will find few places to hide. I'll take a guess now for example that the UK Labour government won't just lose in 2010, they will be wiped out - but who will beat them is another question.

 

[rgraham666]

A depression followed or accompanied by inflation is the standard way an economy shakes off a debt burden.

Rather in the way shakes and fever is the way the human body shakes off infection.

I don't know why people start shrieking about debt the way they do. It's just a contract. Thousands of businesses and individuals walk away from their debts every year. Are the rules different for governments?

Anyway, Western Civilization is pretty much founded on the reneging on debt. So it's not such a bad thing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Not a problem, JBJ. We'll just give them Texas.

They already own Washington D.C.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Sorry, folks, but the US of A is not the only one in a financial mess. THe UK has a bit of a problem, too (and most of the rest of the EU). Things might have been slightly different if, for example, the 'debt' owed by the USA to the World Bank (?)had been paid off, at least in substantial part.

I just hope that the idiot Bankers, those fellahs who sold on debts, etc., and sold to folks who could not afford a house, the Hedge Fund managers, etc., all get their comeuppance and real soon.

The South Sea bubble was nothing compared to this one!

Well if the rest of the Member Nations of that corrupt organization, The United Nations, that the USA has been supporting for the last 50 years, would pay us back, we would probably have enough to pay off the debt to the world bank. And doesn't it owe the US a lot of money?????

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Today Obama said that WE have to stop borrowing money to fund the government, because its gonna cause huge financial problems with China and the others.

No shit!

The only godddamned thing America makes anymore is Miley Cyrus music videos, and the poor girl needs a break. When the chinks get tired of looking at her bounce and prance, we're screwed.

 

[3113]

*YAWN* Welcome to the Nightmare, Zeb. As noted, you're about six years too late. Most of us saw this coming and had the tar scared out of us when we learned we were going to be involved in a useless, pointless war. And we warned you about this, but for some reason you refused to listen or believe us or be scared then, so sorry, you're going to have to be scared now. Enjoy!

Wars cost lots of money. Lots of money. And it doesn't help when that money is funneled to crooks and cronies who aren't going to deliver.

You can't scare the tar out of us. We've lived with this fear for over six years now. All you can do is show us how blind and stupid you've been not to have seen this coming and complained about it and joined us while we complained about it when SOMETHING COULD HAVE BEEN DONE ABOUT IT!

Now all that can be done is stop the hemorrhaging and hope we live through the transfusion. Either that or you can move to Somalia where neither you nor your children will ever have to pay taxes. Enjoy life there among the pirates.

 

[TE999]

You can't scare the tar out of us. We've lived with this fear for over six years now. All you can do is show us how blind and stupid you've been not to have seen this coming and complained about it and joined us while we complained about it when SOMETHING COULD HAVE BEEN DONE ABOUT IT!QUOTE]

What exactly could have or should have been done? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

 

[3113]

\What exactly could have or should have been done? I'm not criticizing, just curious.

Well, gosh darn, let's see...

What *SHOULD* have been done most immediately and easily was for no one in this country to have waved flags and approved of us getting into a war with Iraq--which anyone with half a brain would have known (hey, I sure did!) that even if we won it quick and easy, we'd be stuck there as occupiers for years. Which requires us to keep pouring money down that money pit which, so far as I could see back then, and is happening right now, hasn't given us back a fucking thing. Not jobs, not oil, not mid-East peace, not shit. THAT would have saved us a few trillion. And if enough people had shouted, "NO FUCKING WAY," as the rest of us did at that time, and demanded our representatives vote no, and demanded that the congress not give Bush a fucking dollar to pay for his little war, then maybe it wouldn't have happened.

And we'd at least have saved that amount of money from being added into the national debt.

I have a lot of other answers that people could have and should have done back when, a lot of it was suggested and foreseen by folk then and they tried to get others to listen. They said our great-grandchildren were going to be paying for our errors and excesses and the games we were playing with finances. They said it back in 2002. In 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008...Over and over and over again.

No one listened. So, you'll forgive me if I've no patience for someone who now wants to "scare the tar out of me" by telling me the "shocking" and supposedly new news that our debt is so great that our great-grandkids are going to be paying for it. [sarcasm] Ohmygosh! Really? [/sarcasm]

Excuse me? Where have these people been for the last six years?

 

[TE999]

Well, gosh darn, let's see...

What *SHOULD* have been done most immediately and easily was for no one in this country to have waved flags and approved of us getting into a war with Iraq--which anyone with half a brain would have known (hey, I sure did!) that even if we won it quick and easy, we'd be stuck there as occupiers for years. Which requires us to keep pouring money down that money pit which, so far as I could see back then, and is happening right now, hasn't given us back a fucking thing. Not jobs, not oil, not mid-East peace, not shit. THAT would have saved us a few trillion. And if enough people had shouted, "NO FUCKING WAY," as the rest of us did at that time, and demanded our representatives vote no, and demanded that the congress not give Bush a fucking dollar to pay for his little war, then maybe it wouldn't have happened.

And we'd at least have saved that amount of money from being added into the national debt.

I have a lot of other answers that people could have and should have done back when, a lot of it was suggested and foreseen by folk then and they tried to get others to listen. They said our great-grandchildren were going to be paying for our errors and excesses and the games we were playing with finances. They said it back in 2002. In 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008...Over and over and over again.

No one listened. So, you'll forgive me if I've no patience for someone who now wants to "scare the tar out of me" by telling me the "shocking" and supposedly new news that our debt is so great that our great-grandkids are going to be paying for it. [sarcasm] Ohmygosh! Really? [/sarcasm]

Excuse me? Where have these people been for the last six years?

I see. Well, thanks for answering. Seems to me politicians have always poured other peoples money down rat holes to gain favor with the rats and the rats supporters. Admittedly wars do burn lots of cash, whether it's the War in Iraq, the War on Poverty or the War on Drugs. There's also a huge sucking sound at the US Treasury as the extrapolated funding for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid runs down another drain.

Let's face it, this, or any other country, cannot sustain the pace of expenditures we've been maintaining for the last twenty five years without A) Taxing the life out of everyone, B) Printing more money causing inflation or C) Paring the federal budget to a managable (ie: the income equals the outgo) level. Since politicians buy votes by redistributing taxpayers money, C) has a snowballs chance in a blast furnace.

Until Americans elect politicians who are fiscally responsible, stop looking to the government to solve all their problems and taking responsibility for their own mistakes...our course is firmly set...until the masts come crashing down and the ship sinks.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I read a book when I was a child (teen) by Mack Reynolds, I believe it was Ability Quotient (1975), anyway the government had purchased the shares of all the corporations in the country and distributed them in two classes. Basic and Premium. Basic shares were your for life and paid you a monthly dividend. Premium shares could be purchased and paid a higher dividend. Nobody had to work as most things had been automated but, you could work if you wanted too. You were paid a decent wage and could purchase upgrades to you basic housing assignment, purchase premium shares, etc.

If you wanted to work you had to work in a profession which was determined by your ability quotient. To get the job was a nightmare of red tape and government lackeys.

I really hope no one here wants something like that for this country.

 

[amicus]

It is already here to a degree, Zeb. Perhaps you noted my post of, "Indoctrinate U.", the links are in the thread, but you must have a Liberal Arts, Green, Eco friendly degree to be accepted for employment at the top levels of Government(the largest employer), and any corporation that seeks, gains and maintains Government contracts in the Military and Industrial world.

Cheers..

ami

 

[TE999]

It is already here to a degree, Zeb. Perhaps you noted my post of, "Indoctrinate U.", the links are in the thread, but you must have a Liberal Arts, Green, Eco friendly degree to be accepted for employment at the top levels of Government(the largest employer), and any corporation that seeks, gains and maintains Government contracts in the Military and Industrial world.

Cheers..

ami

I often wondered where people who earned those useless degrees went to work, other than Mickey D's or Church's Chicken. It also explains the continuing multitude of governmental blunders.

 

[sr71plt]

The tar had already been knocked out of me by those guys who dragged us into an occupation of Iraq without doing a competent cost analysis.

The current economic expenditures are more akin to the debt-boggling Louisiana Purchase, which knocked the tar out of a good many folks at the time who had limited vision of the big picture--similar to many in the Sore Losers Club currently.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Dragon whatever it is, is an Alt, for one of the 'usual suspects', Zeb, and in my opinion, not worth responding to as it is all negative.

I watch and listen to the news every day, to renown economists and financial experts, and each agree that the astounding debt being assumed by this administration will be fatal to freedom, if not the nation itself.

I 'feel' there is a good chance that the very least that will happen politically, is a viable third party to challenge the established two party system. It will be of a conservative nature, one returning the nation to the vision of the Constitution.

There is a 'states rights' movement afoot now, I don't expect it to do much more than galvanize those of like mind to move to some sort of action against increased government control.

For once I agree with you, ami.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Well if the rest of the Member Nations of that corrupt organization, The United Nations, that the USA has been supporting for the last 50 years, would pay us back, we would probably have enough to pay off the debt to the world bank. And doesn't it owe the US a lot of money?????

Good luck collecting, though. The UN would rather pretend that we owe them money than admit that if you deduct our expenses from our ridiculously high dues, they'd owe us. The assholes.