This one's gonna die . . . just some thoughts after reading a post by Madame Pandora

[CreamyLady]

Thank you, Madame Pandora. Your post on the USS Winston Churchill thread got me thinking; very dangerous.

Could the "us versus them" mentality come from the lack of a common identity?

We have been told that this is a nation of immigrants. Most of us come from families that started out someplace else. While many were all too happy to scrape the old sod off their shoes as soon as possible, some of the ethnicity and cultural identity lingers. It takes effort to get past differences to a commonality. How many still identify themselves in terms of the original place of origin, for example -- Italian Americans, African Americans, Japanese Americans?

So, while struggling to get past old loyalties and identities, people might be able to embrace a fuzzy concept of "American," and not be able to take it further, to "Global Citizen."

Which is another thing altogether.

 

[Weird Harold]

Thank you, Madame Pandora. Your post on the USS Winston Churchill thread got me thinking; very dangerous.

Could the "us versus them" mentality come from the lack of a common identity?

An interesting question.

I think it has more to do with a desire to "put it all behind us" than a lack of common identity.

The majority of immigrants came to America to get away from something bad -- persecution, poverty, etc -- rather than coming in search of something.

Historically, the US has been more isolationist than interventionist. It seems to me that that trend stems from a desire of the majority to let their countries they came from "rot in hell" if at all possible.

Where there is some degree of feelings in many for the "homeland," where ever it might be, anywhere else generates no feelings at all. That leads to a minority who want to intervene on one side or the other and a majority who could care less.

Since WWII, this split personality has changed to some degree and been replaced with a "big brother" mindset in more of the population. However, it still takes something that directly affects national interests AND the individual American to generate a common purpose.

 

[CreamyLady]

Aside from imminent national annihilation, it's hard to think of an overriding national interest. A lot of issues seem to generate a common thought (education, for one), until the specifics are examined. Then everyone has a different idea of what it means, and how to go about it, and how to pay for it.

Can we achieve any kind of common national identity, that everyone can live with, and can be representative of everyone in the country? Based on November's sad results, I don't think so.

 

[Xander]

I know this gonna put my on everyones black list.

but viewed from the side line, and upon historical facts of the world.

And I know this is a side note.

But the United States of America. Is currently the only country in the world, that resembles, your old ach enemy. The Sovjet Union, as it was back in the cold war days.

Something to think about aint it.

 

[MinkSoul]

It takes effort to get past differences to a commonality.

it's not that people don't want to give up the "old country", it's that they (we?) don't want to give up their tv programs.

 

[CreamyLady]

No, Xander, you aren't on my shit list.

I think you are right. I've thought the same thing for years, ever since the arms buildup went beyond first strike capability into "vaporize."

 

[CRaZy]

I must be feeling suicidal or something because I am about to write on another political thread. (Shakes in her slippers waiting for hate mail). Those who read my posts would know that I have travelled extensively. In those travels I have obviously met lots of Americans. Without wanting to sound patronising, I have found them to be warm, generous, funny and great company, far less whiny than Aussies or Brits - LOL. American positivity is a great benefit when travelling. An example. I'm on a 50 seater bus in Taiwan going up into the mountains. Winding, narrow, dirt track which is absolutely barely the width of the bus. At times, loose stones on the sides crumble beneath our wheels. Vehicles are treating the road like a six lane highway. At one point, another bus passes us going the other way and a taxi somehow speeds in between the two vehicles. We swerve even closer to the edge. In the ravine far below, lie the remnants of dozens of vehicles that didn't make it. I am in tears. Almost ready to pray. Then an American beside me says, " Isn't this exhilarating? I LOVE being close to danger." You just have to put a brave smile on your face when confronted with such optimism.

But, having said that, Americans' view of the world tends to be askew. Let me tell another anecdote which is typical of the attitude I find. Another American I met in my travels, well educated, highly respected surgeon, now a good friend was (foolishly) discussing politics with me not long after we met. I expressed the opinion that I felt Australia should not align itself so closely with the United States. He replied, "But how would you survive? You need our monetary aid. That wouldn't be very wise." He was astounded to learn that there are indeed countries in the world who have high standards of living without American handouts and generosity. In fact, some of us survive despite American bans on our exports, embargoes, subsidies etc. etc.

(Thinks it might be close to bedtime. Ducks under the desk and waits for missiles to land on house).

 

[BrainyBeauty]

This is too good a thread to die CL

<<Can we achieve any kind of common national identity, that everyone can live with, and can be representative of everyone in the country? >>

Short of a national tragedy, I find that scenario implausible considering current emotions. I find our nation to be grievously fractured. In spirit and soul.

I keep beating the same dead horse in a number of threads, so I apologize for repeating myself here. (maybe eventually I will realize this is pointless and serves only to give me a headache!)

But one of the main reasons for this climate is the emergence of the 'selfish gene'. Certainly it has always been there, lurking in the background. But over the last 15-20 years it has bullied its way into our country's face much like a petulant child who stubbornly pushes his way to the front of a line because he is impatient.

We have become the ME generation. What's in it for ME? How does this apply to ME?

How can we expect to come together for any reason when we think only of ourselves and our own interests? MP was indeed eloquent on the Churchill thread and quite insightful in her views. We are divided among ourselves for a variety of reasons and can't even begin to grasp our place in the global community.

More than that, though, is our indifference to our place in the community of man. It isn't about race or religion or politics (although the spirited debates on this forum might make you believe otherwise) In my opinion, it is about how we not only view other human beings, but how we interact with them.

It is about caring for someone else's feelings. About extending a hand in friendship or in aid. About caring for someone other than ourselves. About putting someone else's needs, wants or desires above our own. About proving that self sacrifice is something to strive for and placing someone else's interests ahead of ours. It is about demonstrating our care and compassion for another person.

We used to think like that and feel those things. I was raised that way. Everyone around me believed these same things. Why did my generation drop the ball and stop walking the walk and talking the talk? Why did they stop teaching these principles to their children?

Looking out for number one is not criminal. It is the only way to be - but in terms of self-preservation only. Unfortunately, we took it too far and decided to use that as our blueprint for all facets of life. That is where we took a wrong turn.

Lest anyone get their feathers ruffled, let me assure you that I am not espousing a particular religion or way of life. Simply a lifestyle. No matter what your preferences are, I feel fairly confident that these principles are acceptable to you. If not, well, that sums up the problem in a nutshell.