This just pisses me off.

[rwsteward]

I just had a story posted.

Comments are coming in. Most wondered what my secret code of &8212 meant.

I don't have a clue. Until I looked at my story. Apparently the 'em dash' got converted to the &8212.

I quickly replaced them 'em dash' with a regular dash and uploaded the story again. That's three days out, so in the mean time.... Well I'm pissed.

And I've never had this problem before with using em dashes in any of my stories or seeing them in other's stories, too.

 

[Darkniciad]

I actually just sent you an email because I saw your comment in the comment portal.

Use this special character code to make sure your em dashes always come out, regardless of what program you write in:

—

You only need to type it ( or find-replace after you finish writing ) directly into the document. Lit will automatically convert it to an em dash upon posting. If you upload in plain .txt or copy-paste into the story text box, it will also show up as an em dash in preview.

That way, you can confirm that you didn't typo any of them.

Copy-paste or uploading plain .txt is the fastest and most reliable way to submit your stories, as the preview lets you catch a lot of these things before they can appear in the public posting.

Lit's text processor appears to be based on Microsoft Word, and the normal em dash for that program. It's likely to choke on anything else. Using the html special character code end-runs around that limitation. This is also one of the situations where the preview won't always match the final. For instance, the em dash generated by Wordperfect shows as an em dash in preview, but posts as a double hyphen in the public posting.

 

[rwsteward]

How fast is fast? We're talking hours or days?

I've already sent up a corrected file with the em dashes removed and just a plain old dash

I use Word, too and this is the first time I've had issues with the em dashes

 

[Darkniciad]

How fast is fast? We're talking hours or days?

I've already sent up a corrected file with the em dashes removed and just a plain old dash

It depends, but submitting in any other format ( such as .doc ) requires the moderators to manually convert everything, where copy-paste or plain .txt automatically generates the final posting for them.

I've seen reports in the past that switching over to .txt or copy-paste made at least a day's worth of difference in the posting speed, but that has been a while ago, when posting took 6-7 days on average.

Sucks that this happened to you on a contest story, especially when it's not really your fault.

NOTE: If you use formatting such as italics, and you switch to copy-paste or plain .txt, you'll also have to add the html codes for those sections. <i>italic text</i>

It's more work to submit this way, but you have a lot better chance of catching problems before they can appear on the public side. With the majority of your views and votes coming in on day-1, that makes a big difference.

 

[MicKay]

What's an 'em dash'?

 

[Darkniciad]

An em dash looks like this —

It is used to show a break in thought or a shift in tone. It is also used to show speech that is cut off or interrupted.

As opposed to the hypen, which is much shorter -

 

[MicKay]

Thanks!

 

[CarlusMagnus]

An em dash looks like this —

It is used to show a break in thought or a shift in tone. It is also used to show speech that is cut off or interrupted.

As opposed to the hypen, which is much shorter -

And in between is the en dash, –, which is used to separate, for example, a pair of numbers indicating a range, as in "He needed 3–6 dashes in that paragraph."

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm lazy and seeing I've seen this complaint before, along with people asking what an m-dash is I simply use ... to show someone trailing off, or if they are interrupted. Pretty amateur I'm sure, but then again that's what I am.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm lazy and seeing I've seen this complaint before, along with people asking what an m-dash is I simply use ... to show someone trailing off, or if they are interrupted. Pretty amateur I'm sure, but then again that's what I am.

The ellipsis is for a trailing thought but the correct way is . . .

The Em is for interruptions.

But the CMS has complete definitions and examples.

 

[PennLady]

I'm lazy and seeing I've seen this complaint before, along with people asking what an m-dash is I simply use ... to show someone trailing off, or if they are interrupted. Pretty amateur I'm sure, but then again that's what I am.

I'd say the only thing is that trailing off is different from being interrupted. So an ellipsis gives a different feel than the em-dash. And it's used for other things, as Dark noted.

 

[MicKay]

I'm lazy and seeing I've seen this complaint before, along with people asking what an m-dash is I simply use ... to show someone trailing off, or if they are interrupted. Pretty amateur I'm sure, but then again that's what I am.

Same here. I've honestly never noticed the em dash in a story. But maybe I'm lazy and forgetful.

 

[PolyLvr]

I've always wondered what the difference is. In some stories I write it's dash -. In others it's an m-dash. I'm not sure why the differences but I suppose it's probably the way I set up the .doc before I write.

 

[_Lynn_]

Same here. I've honestly never noticed the em dash in a story. But maybe I'm lazy and forgetful.

If you scroll down a few paragraphs, you'll see them used in this. I don't guarantee I've used either the em or the ellipsis in the correct way each time, but I wrote the piece in a day and posted it without an edit.

 

[sr71plt]

I've always wondered what the difference is. In some stories I write it's dash -. In others it's an m-dash. I'm not sure why the differences but I suppose it's probably the way I set up the .doc before I write.

A - is a hypen, not a dash. The two dash forms are en (to separate inclusive numbers as in 100–150 kumquats and double-barrel combinations as in “United States–France ties” and the longer em dash used for interjections in sentences and interrupted speech). The dashes get their names from printers’ measurements of leading.

 

[PacoFear]

I've always wondered what the difference is. In some stories I write it's dash -. In others it's an m-dash. I'm not sure why the differences but I suppose it's probably the way I set up the .doc before I write.

I do know that under conditions I've never delineated thoroughly, the default settings for Word will automatically replace a doubled hyphen with an em dash. The most reliable for me seems to be when joining two words. Thus, "cat--god" mystically becomes "cat—god" according to the whims of Mr. Gates. Exploit as appropriate.

 

[PolyLvr]

A - is a hypen, not a dash. The two dash forms are en (to separate inclusive numbers as in 100–150 kumquats and double-barrel combinations as in “United States–France ties” and the longer em dash used for interjections in sentences and interrupted speech). The dashes get their names from printers’ measurements of leading.

LOL, my mistake. I'd just read that too.

 

[Darkniciad]

I do know that under conditions I've never delineated thoroughly, the default settings for Word will automatically replace a doubled hyphen with an em dash. The most reliable for me seems to be when joining two words. Thus, "cat--god" mystically becomes "cat—god" according to the whims of Mr. Gates. Exploit as appropriate.

Same thing happens in Wordperfect. Problem is, the one from Word works just fine. The one from Wordperfect doesn't when posted to Lit.

And the text processor changes over time, as well. WP's em dashes used to work, and then one day, they all turned into double hyphens.

That's why I finally said to hell with it and pushed the OVERRIDE button, using html to bypass the text processor's inconsistent handling of them.

 

[sr71plt]

I cut and paste into the submission box from Word with the real en and em dashes and haven't notice a problem. Maybe I should be more careful about rechecking for it.

 

[rwsteward]

I sat down sunday night and thought and thought about what happened. I could only come up with this.

I started this story using Word. Then my desktop took a crap—hard drive failed.

Lucky for me I had the file up in the clouds and was able to resume working on the story. However, I used my laptop as my main computer and used my iPad for story writing using Apple's Pages program. Worked just fine. Pages converted the word file to pages file and back to word.

I think, and I'm not sure, but it was the conversion from one format to another than something was dropped or added, I'll never know, but everything looked fine on the screen.

So, there are 56 instances &8212; in my story. It just ruins the flow and is distracting as hell. It's like sitting down and watching a movie when every so often someone drive a red Mack truck through the living room—and does it 56 times.

And sr71plt, this was the story you told me to get off my ass and write. I figured since it's so dark it would be a great entry for the Halloween contests.

Lots of great comments, but the votes were disappointing. I can't help to think it was those distracting &8212;

I always just uploaded the XXX.Doc file and never used the text upload. Perhaps I should rethink that and give it try.

If anyone wants a link to the story, complete with all those &8212; PM me and I'll send the link

 

[sr71plt]

I doubt the code had much effect. And the voting isn't all in on the Halloween contests. Sweeps almost always bring the ratings up. Take a look at the rating after the contest is wrapped up to see how well the story was received.

 

[nakdsub]

Apple with major problems with an upgrade

Apple had a major upgrade. Cloud and I-pads were all screwed up, sounds like you may have been one their many, many victims.

 

[rwsteward]

I didn't use Apple's cloud server. I use Dropbox.

I use all macs in the office. I'm sure it had something to do with the files being converted back and forth, although I'll never be able to say for sure. I do know, that if I start on a project in Word, it will finish in word. Although, uploading in txt into the message box might be a way to go.

I'm still licking my wounds.

 

[palisa]

Sorry for the problem. I agree with your conclusion, though; any time you convert formats, there's a chance for mischief.

A couple of comments on other posts here:

Word will convert double hyphens to em-dashes, but only under some circumstances. You have to have autocorrect on for it to work. Typing along with no errors or backspacing works flawlessly, AFAIK. One catch is that the em-dash appears only after you hit the space bar. If you go back in your text to correct something, it gets a bit complicated.

The em-dash won't appear unless you also type a "word" (at least one letter and a space) after the two hyphens. There may well be other ways to handle the problem, but I usually just type a letter and a space after the double hyphen, forcing the conversion to an em-dash, and then backspace out the letter and space.

If that's not elegant enough, you can get an em-dash directly by typing CTRL-ALT and the hyphen on the keypad. En-dash is CTRL -. That's great on a full keyboard, but a PITA on a laptop without a separate keypad because you have to turn on the numlock, remember to use the keypad hyphen (usually the semicolon key, I think) instead of the underline/hyphen key, and then turn numlock off again.

Em-dashes are used not only for interrupted thoughts such as cut-off speech at the end of a sentence, but for abrupt breaks in the middle of a sentence. Use the dashes fore and aft of the interjected thought.

 

[bronzeage]

The fight to keep the ellipsis in it's place was long and dirty, but in the end, grammarians surrendered to usage. There is no point in fighting any longer.

The problem comes from a flaw in English grammar. There never was a proper way to show a natural pause in speech. Writers depended upon a short piece of narration between quotes. Bronzeage paused to wonder if anyone cared.

This was not really a problem until internet chat came along. Something was needed to fill the void of a thoughtful pause and the ellipsis stepped into the gap.

The poor emdash might have tried, but keyboards just don't have an emdash key.