This is the man who gave birth to Castro...

p_p_man

The 'Euro' European
Joined
Feb 18, 2001
Posts
24,253
Only a quick potted history but behind it you have to remember the corruption, prostitution and petty crime that ordinary Cubans were forced into because of their abject poverty...

Fulgencio Batista Zaldívar

"Batista was well liked by American interests, who feared Grau’s liberal social and economic revolution and saw him as a stabilizing force with respect for American interests. It was in this time period that Batista formed a renowned friendship and business relationship with gangster Meyer Lansky that lasted over three decades.

Through Lansky, the mafia knew they had a friend in Cuba. Gangster Lucky Luciano, after being deported to Italy in 1946, went to Havana with a false passport. A summit at Havana’s Hotel Nacional, with mobsters such as Frank Costello, Vito Genovese, Santo Trafficante Jr., Moe Dalitz and others, confirmed Luciano’s authority over the U.S. mob, and coincided with Frank Sinatra’s singing debut in Havana. It was here that Lansky gave permission to kill Bugsy Siegel for skimming construction money from the Flamingo in Las Vegas.

Batista opened the way for large-scale gambling in Havana, and he reorganized the Cuban state so that he and his political appointees could harvest the nation’s riches. He announced that his government would match, dollar for dollar, any hotel investment over $1 million, which would include a casino license, and Lansky became the center of the entire Cuban gambling operation.

Under Batista, Cuba became profitable for American business and organized crime. Havana became the “Latin Las Vegas,” a playground of choice for wealthy gamblers, and very little was said about democracy, or the rights of the average Cuban. Opposition was swiftly and violently crushed, and many began to fear the new government.

For a price, Batista handed contracts to dozens of U.S. corporations for massive construction projects, such as the Havana-Varadero highway, the Rancho Boyeros airport, train lines, the power company and a strange plan to dig a canal across Cuba.

Due to popular unrest, and to apease his U.S. friends, Batista held a mock election in which he was the only legal candidate. He won, becoming president of Cuba in 1954. Cubans, however, had learned not to trust him, and were demanding new, legitimate elections.

But the seeds of the revolution had already sprouted a stronger, determined movement [led by Fidel Castro] that would not allow the future of the Cuban nation to remain in the hands of gangsters and corrupt politicians.

Then as Castro's revolutionary army grew nearer to Havana...

"On January 1, 1959, after formally resigning his position in Cuba’s government, and after going through what historian Hugh Thomas describes as “a charade of handing over power” to his representatives, his remaining family and closest associates boarded a plane at 3 a.m. at Camp Colombia and flew to Ciudad Trujillo, capital of the Dominican Republic."

"Throughout the night various flights out of Camp Colombia took Batista’s friends and high officials to Miami, New York, New Orleans and Jacksonville. Batista’s brother “Panchín,” governor of Havana, left several hours later, and Meyer Lansky, suffering from ill health, also flew out that night. There was no provision made for the thousands of other Cubans who had worked with Batista’s regime.

Batista died in 1975."

I wonder what some of those Cubans in Miami would say if you asked them about their family history on the island?

ppman
 
As I think I know how you think... You must certainly agree with me that the US sure likes to help create our own enemies don't we?
 
SleepingWarrior said:
As I think I know how you think... You must certainly agree with me that the US sure likes to help create our own enemies don't we?

Yup...:D

It's this short term attitude your politicians seem to have.

All they've got to do is look at the long haul and America would be even more powerful than she is at present...

But they do tend to knee-jerk around...

:)
 
Yep, Batista was a rat. From a long line of rats. But you see, the corruption that was Cuba goes back much fruther than Batista. And for once I agree pp, it was the US that caused it.

You see back when we were an isolationist country prior to WWII we tried this experiment called prohibition. The gangsters got rich and used Miami as a 'nuetral territory' city. (The first real gangland killing didn't occur in Miami until the '60s even though Miami was always loaded with gangsters.) Well, gangsters like to have fun too, and what better place than that beautiful island just 90 miles to the south. It was also an excellent source of rum that could be run in by boat, as was the Bahama's. Now the British didn't mind selling the yankee rum runners the booze, but they objected to having gangland figures present. So Cuba was the place for debauchery. By the end of prohibition, the gangsters were so thoroughly entrenched that nothing could shake them loose.

Yes, we were fighting the gangsters over here too, but we were still isolationist. WWII put everything on hold for a while and then the post war period started.

Along comes Castro, the freedom fighter. He attracted a great many American expatriates to fight side by side with him to end the corruption in Cuba. (One should recall that American's were sympathetic to Castro's cause. One of the reasons Batista was denied asylum here, even though he asked for it.) After he had succeeded, he announced he was a Communist. Many of the Americans that had fought with him felt betrayed and said so. They were killed for their blasphemy. Castro, like so many other petty dictators initiated a series of 'purges' throughout Cuba. The trials were a sham, the sentence pre-ordained. Death.

So yes, Castro is in power because of American policy, but not foriegn policy. And yes, America dealt with it too late, but the seeds were sown long before we took an interest in the international stage. And Batista was the last, but certainly not the first.

As far as the Batista followers that made it to the US, who knows? Several were rounded up because of their ties to organized crime. Some few may still be hiding. Most are probably dead now. Should we round up the children and their families and do them in like the third world countries do?

Ishmael
 
Ishmael said:
Yep, Batista was a rat. From a long line of rats. But you see, the corruption that was Cuba goes back much fruther than Batista. And for once I agree pp, it was the US that caused it.

Ishmael

Couldn't agree more, Ish.

Batista was a rat; but, he was OUR rat.

:)
 
Hey this is getting more interesting the more I read...

Quoted from another potted history of Cuba...

"1960

January Cuba expropriates 70,000 acres of property owned by U.S. sugar companies, including 35,000 acres of pasture and forests owned by United Fruit Company in Oriente province. United Fruit owns approximately 235,000 acres in addition to this. By confronting United Fruit (later United Brands and Chiquita Brands), Cuba is antagonizing a powerful organization that played a major role in the 1954 overthrow of the elected Arbenz Government in Guatemala. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles has been both a stockholder and a longtime legal adviser for the company, including preparation of contracts in 1930 and 1936 with the Ubico dictatorship in Guatemala; his brother Allen W. Dulles, director of the CIA, was once president of the company; UN Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge has been a member of its board of directors; Walter Bedell Smith, head of the CIA before Dulles, became president of United Fruit after the overthrow of Arbenz."

So is this ongoing hostility towards Castro because of his communism or because of some long ago expropriation of land owned by the "United Fruit Compnay" of which many American senior politicians of the day had connections...

Is it a question of personal revenge dressed up as Foreign Policy?

Over to you Ishmael. You seem to know your stuff on this...

ppman
 
Call it expropriation if you want, it is still theft. Communism/socialism is good at theft.
 
Skibum said:
Call it expropriation if you want, it is still theft. Communism/socialism is good at theft.

Not in this case apparantly...

"THE U.S. SUPREME COURT RECOGNIZED THE LEGITIMACY OF CUBAN NATIONALIZATION

What happened to the rest of the property owners from other countries who were subject to nationalization?

Well, their respective governments looked for solutions. Each one sat down at some moment to negotiate mutually acceptable formulas with Cuba. In this way, for example, agreements were signed with Canada, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Spain and France. In every case, except one, full compensation has been paid.

What antecedents exist in international law in other countries, including the United States itself, concerning nationalization within sovereign territory?

There are various instruments on the international level which recognize the right of a sovereign state to nationalize goods and properties in the public interest. For instance, it is included in diverse United Nations resolutions and has also been the subject of abundant jurisprudence. In the case of the nationalization carried out by Mexico in 1938, prior to the creation of the United Nations, there was wide and well-documented recognition of the principle that a government has the right to nationalize, especially when the country is immersed in a process of political, economic and social transformation, such as the one experienced by Mexico and later by Cuba in the 1960s. In the United States itself, there was a Supreme Court decision which recognized the legitimacy of Cuban nationalization as a state action."

ppman
 
Nationalisation of private property is always a bad thing, especially when it involves the means of production. Government is too inefficeint to effectively produce wealth. That is where the ultimate failure of communism/socialism shows itself.
 
Skibum said:
Nationalisation of private property is always a bad thing, especially when it involves the means of production. Government is too inefficeint to effectively produce wealth. That is where the ultimate failure of communism/socialism shows itself.

Nothing wrong with communism or socialism.

In the UK the Conservatives privatised the railways. Now after a terrible record of poor maintenance, crashes and deaths over the past 10 years, plus Unions having to negotiate with different companies and passengers no longer able to get through tickets as easily as before most of the public are crying out for them to be re-nationalised.

We are also experimenting with privatising our National Health System but that too is meeting strong opposition.

No, public ownership works well where public services are concerned.

:)
 
I can't understand people who castigate government for doing the things government is supposed to do (national defense, punishment of criminals), and distrust government, yet give that same government control of things better done by the private sector. I do not want government to control my access to health care, food, or a job. That allows too much of a chance for favoritism and oppression.
 
The Cuban's

As a young man going to college in Miami I was working a unique business that brought me in contact with all sorts of people. Most notably were the Cuban's that had fled to Miami in the early sixties, away from the excess's of Castro.

The first wave of Cuban's into So. Florida were the middle class of Cuba. The professionals. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, and other business owners. These people were well educated and had a phenominal work ethic. I watched as these famillies struggled to make ends meet, then as they started their own business's. The professional's could not obtain certification or pass the Bar exam, so their former occupations were lst to them. The started over, in some cases in advanced years, as furniture upholsterers, cabinet makers, loborer's, what ever they could do to make ends meet. Having lost everything that they owned in Cuba, as well as their life saving in most cases, they did what they could to start over.

They all worked, Father, Mother, Son, and Daughter. They'd buy a house and the extended family would all live in it. They would pool their resources and pay the mortgage off in two years or so, then they would buy a house for the next senior member of the family. Pool their resources and pay that house off in two years or so. As an industrious, family oriented people as you'd ever want to meet.

Being the 'elite' of Cuba by the very fact that they were educated and hard working had doomed them in the eyes of Castro and his follower's. Their business's and homes stripped from them. There professional license revoked. They and their family relocated and scheduled for 'reprogramming' into the collectivist mind set.

These are the people that I grew up around as a young man. Sharing their roof and food. Playing baseball or football with their son's and dating their daughters. Every family had a story, and stories of other families and I heard most of them. Even though I was of a more liberal persuasion in those days, the stories sent chills up and down my back.

I support my governments policy towards Cuba. I did then and I do now. I do it out of respect for what I saw in those people and what had been done to them by the dictator that now occupies the 'throne' in Cuba. Batista was a rat alright, but Castro is no better. His record of his treatment of his own people is even more abysmal than Batista's. Batista, at least, did not have to seal his own borders to prevent the flight of the citizens over which he ruled day to day. The same cannot be said of Castro.

While the United States has embargo'd all trade with Cuba, the rest of the world has not. Cuba has been free to trade what goods she has with the rest of the world for two generations of Casto's rule, and it is still an impoverished third world hole in the ocean. To presume that the United States is the cause is erroneous thinking on anyone's part. It is Castro's policies that have kept Cuba impoverished. As long as the dictator and his brother hold sway I favor no change in policy.

Ishmael
 
Well said Ish,

Peeper, you have but to buy a ticket and you can travel to Cuba. I would strongly recommend the trip! When you go though, please live "on the economy". Rent a pension , you can probably pay for it with toilet paper and bar soap. You can find a "date" on the beach with a beautiful, young Cuban girl that will cost nothing more than a decent meal and clean sheets to sleep on, with perhaps the hope of a small gift when you leave. Don't expect to travel freely and go where ever you wish. Don't take pictures too freely, especially of "Military personnel". Don't say anything negative when you see injustice.

Sounds like just the place for you P P!

Rhumb:rolleyes:
 
Re: Well said Ish,

RhumbRunner13 said:
Peeper, you have but to buy a ticket and you can travel to Cuba. I would strongly recommend the trip! When you go though, please live "on the economy". Rent a pension , you can probably pay for it with toilet paper and bar soap. You can find a "date" on the beach with a beautiful, young Cuban girl that will cost nothing more than a decent meal and clean sheets to sleep on, with perhaps the hope of a small gift when you leave. Don't expect to travel freely and go where ever you wish. Don't take pictures too freely, especially of "Military personnel". Don't say anything negative when you see injustice.

Sounds like just the place for you P P!

Rhumb:rolleyes:

Waaal....I lived there a long time ago for 3-4 years and my daughter is Cuban by birth. I can return, as I have a few times over the intervening years, but she can't as she is regarded as a Cuban citizen and will be subjected to their laws.

As she was only in Cuba for a couple of months before we all returned to the UK she decided against that option.

Yes you can live on next to nothing and pick up a girl for a packet of cigarettes. But I can do that in any country where there is abject poverty.

The people don't want to live like that. Castro doesn't want them to live like that. But America, by imposing a vicious trade embargo apparantly does.

And as a reply to Ishmael and his pals in Miami. Just how many of them were forced to leave the island and how many did so voluntarily thinking, mistakenly, that Castro would soon be kicked out and they would be back.

On the face of it the doctors weren't missed very much as Cuba has today what is recognised as the best Health Care and Medical Research Laboratories in the world.

America is shooting itself in the foot by not normalising relations with Cuba, even if its only because you're missing out on a great vacation destination.

ppman
 
Re: Re: Well said Ish,

p_p_man said:




The people don't want to live like that. Castro doesn't want them to live like that. But America, by imposing a vicious trade embargo apparantly does.


ppman

Cuba has been free to trade with the rest of the world for two generations now. Cuban products and produce, such as they are, are available in most countries other than the US. To suppose that only by trading with the US will Castro have the funds he needs to piss away on even more military hardware is folly of the most extreme kind.

The US trade embargo is in no way responsible for Cuba's plight. Never has been.

But the answer you made to Rhumb regarding your daughter is all we really need to know anyway.

Ishmael
 
Re: Re: Re: Well said Ish,

Ishmael said:

But the answer you made to Rhumb regarding your daughter is all we really need to know anyway.

Ishmael

So if my daughter had been born in the USA and her birth registered there and a birth certificate issued there, she wouldn't be subject to US law?

How does that fit in with the offspring of illegal aliens? Or are they considered illegals down the generations?

ppman

ps. And Cuba still has the best Health Care and Medical Research Laboratories in the world. Their free education system is not bad either.
 
Last edited:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Well said Ish,

p_p_man said:


So if my daughter had been born in the USA and her birth registered there and a birth certificate issued there, she wouldn't be subject to US law?

How does that fit in with the offspring of illegal aliens? Or are they considered illegals down the generations?

ppman

ps. And Cuba still has the best Health Care and Medical Research Laboratories in the world. Their free education system is not bad either.

Just a little cut and snip to educate myself on this wonderland of medicine Americans are missing out on:

www.cubacenter.org/media/archives/1998/summer/medicine_today.html

The government's myth that Cuba is on healthcare's cutting edge attracts desperate patients whom Cuban hospitals are not actually in a position to help. It is common for Cuban hospitals to advertise services that they do not have the resources to perform. Moreover, they are incapable of guaranteeing results superior to what patients might expect in their own countries. As a result, patients are often inadequately or falsely informed about their condition and steered toward services they may not need.

Hospital workers demand extra payments from patients in exchange for better service.

Hospital workers have sexual relations with patients (including the handicapped) and/or those traveling with them, in hopes of obtaining bribes and gifts. There is also prostitution on the part of both sexes.

Hospital workers sexually abuse some patients.

Patients are pressured to obtain permission and money for hospital workers to leave Cuba in exchange for low cost medical services in the patient's home country. Recently, hundreds of hospital personnel (nurses, rehabilitation specialists, doctors, service personnel) have successfully left Cuba this way. Often, their patients are then abandoned.

Patients' and companions' money and personal effects are stolen.

Patients are obliged to pay prearranged ranged fees, then fail to receive the services promised.

Patients suffer avoidable complications such as dermatological infections or gastroenteritis (because of insufficient sanitary precautions in food preparation).

Patients show no improvement after their treatment or even worsen because of misdiagnoses or incorrect treatment.

Peeper, where do you come up with some of the unmitigated horse shit that you post?:confused:

Rhumb:rolleyes:
 
As to the Education system.......

http://www.cubainfolinks.net/Articles/aaccuses.htm

(GUANTÁNAMO, CUBA, March 24th) – I accuse the staff at the elementary school "Josué País García" for the unscrupulous measures teachers use that go against the normal development of a child and his mental health. Specifically, against my son, Pedro Santiago Castro Márquez, 11 years old and a six grade student at the above mentioned school. He is the victim of constant reproaches such as: "your father is a counter-revolutionary, because he is against Fidel" "your parents are 'gusanos' (word used by Castro to describe those against the system, more specifically to describe exiles, literal translation means worms) and scum".

These expressions are used in the presence of their classmates, who, turned into spokespeople for the Castro regime by early mental manipulation, use them to verbally -and on occasion physically- assault my son, who is completely rejecting school.

This situation started when the child's school file was being prepared and he was asked where his parents worked. He innocently responded that his father was a delegate of the Democratic Party November 30th and his mother the Secretary, and that he had the first independent library for children, and that his parents also belonged to Human Rights groups.

It should be noted that my stepson had to move to Havana because his privileges of obtaining pre-university studies were denied to him here for the same reasons.

My elder son was sent to a dense mountainous area for his obligatory military service in a unit of the Juvenile Work Army, a place where the troubled and dangerous youth are sent.

This unscrupulous measures are used by Castro's communist regime as a systematic way of turning children against their parents, teaching them that adults who do not profess communist ideology are reactionary enemies of the revolution, therefore inculcating in them that they cannot allow themselves to be guided by their parents, that they should spy and denounce the adults in their families, bringing as a result that the home, sanctuary of affection and reciprocated trust, is turned into a place where any criticism of the totalitarian regime could bring disastrous consequences.

Reporting from Guantánamo, Ferdinando Castro de Lardiller, National Delegate of the Democratic Party November 30th "Frank País" and Coordinator of COOCE. For the Information Bridge Cuba Miami. Given on March 2002.

Peeps, are you just trying to bullshit us or do you really think we are all that stupid?

Rhumb
:confused:
 
Jeez, I hate to personalize...

But Ishmael has got me started...

When I was in the corps, my class got stationed to Cherry Point, which was a miserable place to be in '74-'76, even longer...

One of our brethern, a Miami Cuban, got to the point that he hated the Corps, hated America, and went AWOL to live in Cuba with his relatives...

Within 6 months, he was back...

Never heard another negative comment about the Corps or America...

FUCKTARDS!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well said Ish,

RhumbRunner13 said:


Peeper, where do you come up with some of the unmitigated horse shit that you post?:confused:

Rhumb:rolleyes:

Well for a start I don't deliberately go looking for web sites that are heavily biased...

Quote from the Guardian

"BRITAIN STUDIES CUBAN HEALTHCARE SYSTEM

The Guardian (London), Monday Oct. 2, 2000

By Sarah Boseley, health correspondent

The NHS [British National Health Service] is turning to Cuba for
inspiration on how to improve its services. Officials from the
Department of Heath and 100 Gps [general practitioners] visited the Caribbean island which, despite being short of medicines and money after decades of a US-led economic embargo, manages to deliver excellent healthcare at a fraction of our cost. Later this month a delegation of Cuban doctors, led by Cuba's deputy health minister, will arrive in Britain to share the secrets of their success.

The interest in Cuba comes at a time when the Labour government is intent on radical reforms of the NHS to make it patient-centered and more cost-effective. Cuba has a stunning record in both regards, with patient representation at every level, helping to organize the way the health service is run.

When Fidel Castro came to power, Cuba's mortality rates matched many other places in the developing world, with a life expectancy of 48 for men and 54 for women. Now it rivals anywhere in Europe or the US.

Male life expectancy is 74 - the same as in the UK. Women can expect to live to 76 years old (79 in the UK) and infant mortality is 7.1 per 100,000 births* (see note below) - not much higher than ours.

However, one major difference between Cuba's health statistics and ours has caught the attention of officials: here, healthcare costs £750 a head annually. In Cuba it costs £7.

Among those who went on the Cuban trip earlier this year were the principal medical officer of the Department of Health, Phillip Leach, the eminent academic Sir Brian Jarman and the president of the Royal College of GPs, Sir Dennis Pereira Gray. Patrick Pietroni, a dean of postgraduate general practice at London
University, who led the visit, said: "What we can learn is how they have managed to produce these healthcare statistics which are sometimes better than ours at 1% of the expenditure. They have more family doctors, who are better trained than our GPs.

"When we went to Cuba what was so impressive were the three-story buildings called consultorio. The ground floor was the practice, the first floor was the doctor's flat and the second floor was the nurse's flat. No Cuban lives more than 20 minutes or so from one of these."

They also have fewer patients. Cuba has 30,000 GPs, the same number as Britain, but has only a fifth of the population. There is one family doctor per 500 to 700 people in Cuba, compared to one for 1,800 to 2,000 here.

Cuba has 21 medical schools, but Britain has only 12. Cuba has 37,000 practice nurses. The UK, which has a shortage of all nurses, has just 10,300.

Some of the good health of the Cuban nation is, paradoxically, the
product of adversity. Food is rationed and meat is scarce, so much of the diet is fruit and vegetables. Because there is relatively little public or private transport, most people walk or cycle everywhere.

Immunization is compulsory and thanks to the interest and investment the state is prepared to make in health, Cuba has a vaccine for meningitis B, which is now being investigated in the UK - although the prevalent strains in Cuba are not the same as here.

- ----------

* Note, actually, the infant mortality rate is now under 7--6.9/1000 last year."

All you've shown RhumbRunner13 is your complete subjugation to any propoganda you're subjected to. I've noticed this on other threads you've taken part in as well.

If you just let your mind open a bit and stop seeing the world through your Government's eyes, you'll have a much more satisfying life...

Honest...

ppman
 
Re: As to the Education system.......

RhumbRunner13 said:
http://www.cubainfolinks.net/Articles/aaccuses.htm

(GUANTÁNAMO, CUBA, March 24th) – I accuse the staff at the elementary school "Josué País García" for the unscrupulous measures teachers use that go against the normal development of a child and his mental health. Specifically, against my son, Pedro Santiago Castro Márquez, 11 years old and a six grade student at the above mentioned school. He is the victim of constant reproaches such as: "your father is a counter-revolutionary, because he is against Fidel" "your parents are 'gusanos' (word used by Castro to describe those against the system, more specifically to describe exiles, literal translation means worms) and scum".

These expressions are used in the presence of their classmates, who, turned into spokespeople for the Castro regime by early mental manipulation, use them to verbally -and on occasion physically- assault my son, who is completely rejecting school.

This situation started when the child's school file was being prepared and he was asked where his parents worked. He innocently responded that his father was a delegate of the Democratic Party November 30th and his mother the Secretary, and that he had the first independent library for children, and that his parents also belonged to Human Rights groups.

It should be noted that my stepson had to move to Havana because his privileges of obtaining pre-university studies were denied to him here for the same reasons.

My elder son was sent to a dense mountainous area for his obligatory military service in a unit of the Juvenile Work Army, a place where the troubled and dangerous youth are sent.

This unscrupulous measures are used by Castro's communist regime as a systematic way of turning children against their parents, teaching them that adults who do not profess communist ideology are reactionary enemies of the revolution, therefore inculcating in them that they cannot allow themselves to be guided by their parents, that they should spy and denounce the adults in their families, bringing as a result that the home, sanctuary of affection and reciprocated trust, is turned into a place where any criticism of the totalitarian regime could bring disastrous consequences.

Reporting from Guantánamo, Ferdinando Castro de Lardiller, National Delegate of the Democratic Party November 30th "Frank País" and Coordinator of COOCE. For the Information Bridge Cuba Miami. Given on March 2002.

Peeps, are you just trying to bullshit us or do you really think we are all that stupid?

Rhumb
:confused:


I'm not going to even bother to reply in depth to this piece of rubbish. I saw it in the search engine when I was looking for an unbiased article to post about Cuban education. If all you can produce is one person's personal rant against the Cuban system and present it as a viable argument against Cuba's Education System, there is absolutely no hope for you.

As I inferred on the other post you are well on the way to being fully indoctrinated into believing anything you're told as long as it fits in with your Governments 'facts'...

ppman
 
Re: Jeez, I hate to personalize...

SINthysist said:
But Ishmael has got me started...

When I was in the corps, my class got stationed to Cherry Point, which was a miserable place to be in '74-'76, even longer...

One of our brethern, a Miami Cuban, got to the point that he hated the Corps, hated America, and went AWOL to live in Cuba with his relatives...

Within 6 months, he was back...

Never heard another negative comment about the Corps or America...

FUCKTARDS!

And you're not much better than RhumbRunner13.

One guy is one incident. It is not an indictment against the entire system...

I think Bush is a crazy cunt but I don't think all Americans are, just the ones who voted for him...

:D :p
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Well said Ish,

p_p_man said:


So if my daughter had been born in the USA and her birth registered there and a birth certificate issued there, she wouldn't be subject to US law?



ppman

ps. And Cuba still has the best Health Care and Medical Research Laboratories in the world. Their free education system is not bad either.

Why of course she would pp. And so would you, except for those laws that pertain only to citizens. But that dodges the issue. Would you be afraid to bring your daughter here for vacation because of those laws? And if she's over eighteen, she can choose her country of citizenship, at least in free countries she can.

Best health care and medical research laboratories? Of course, must be why so many europeans are flocking there for treatment.

Ishmael
 
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