This is just wrong

Holly Delight

Stays for breakfast
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Posts
11,159
Update !!! :)

!!! UPDATE !!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050628/ap_on_re_us/gold_star_moms

The Gold Star Mothers just voted UNANIMOUSLY to allow non-US citizens to join. Quite a change from their stand last month. The organization also has a new president. I wonder if the former president Ann Herd is still a member and if she were a part of that unanimous decision.

!!! UPDATE !!!



I have to believe that this Ann Herd person has ice in her veins.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050527/ap_on_re_us/gold_star_mother

Slain Soldier's Mom Rejected by Gold Star By JIM FITZGERALD, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 17 minutes ago

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - Everyone agrees that Ligaya Lagman is a Gold Star mother, part of the long line of mournful women whose sons or daughters gave their lives for their country. Her 27-year-old son, Army Staff Sgt. Anthony Lagman, was killed last year in Afghanistan, but American Gold Star Mothers Inc., has rejected Lagman, a Filipino, for membership because — though a permanent resident and a taxpayer — she is not a U.S. citizen.

"There's nothing we can do because that's what our organization says: You have to be an American citizen," national President Ann Herd said Thursday. "We can't go changing the rules every time the wind blows."

That explanation isn't satisfying the war veterans who sponsored Lagman's application, some other members of the mothers' group or several members of Congress.

"It is disheartening that any mother of a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who has died in the line of duty would be denied membership in an organization that honors the memory of fallen service men and women," said Rep. Nita Lowey (news, bio, voting record), whose district includes Lagman's home in Yonkers.

Rep. Eliot Engel (news, bio, voting record), who represents an adjoining district, said the group should change its rules immediately.

"Whatever the excuse, American Gold Star Mothers' decision smacks of xenophobia and is in stark contrast to what Mrs. Lagman's son fought and died for," Engel said.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said, "We now have many noncitizens serving honorably in our armed services, and I hope that this can be satisfactorily resolved."

A past president of the mothers' group, Dorothy Oxendine, of Farmingdale, said, "There's no discrimination in a national cemetery. There's no discrimination when they get killed side by side. So how can we discriminate against a mother?"

Another past president, Ann Wolcott, of York, Pa., said, "Times have changed since this organization was started, and there are a lot of men and women serving today whose parents are not citizens. I think they deserve every honor and privilege that we have as Gold Star mothers."

Oxendine and Wolcott said they believe that given the increasing diversity of the armed forces there have been noncitizens in the 1,200-member organization who overlooked or ignored the citizenship question on the application.

Lagman has lived in the United States for more than 20 years. She was not at home Thursday, apparently tending to her husband, who is hospitalized. But her other son, Chris Lagman, said in Thursday's The Journal News that all she wants "is recognition as the mother of this fallen soldier."

Lagman's application was initiated by Ben Spadaro, a veteran from Yonkers, who said he learned about the citizenship rules of the American Gold Star Mothers while working on a national cemetery committee of the Veterans Administration. When he learned of Anthony Lagman's death and saw Lagman was a citizen but his mother was not, he thought, "He's buried in a military cemetery, with full honors. She should be able to join."

"We decided to tell the absolute truth on the application," he said. "We put down, `I am not an American citizen.' It was a ploy to get them to reject her, and then we said they should change the rules."

But the organization's 12-member executive board voted against any change.

"We can't go changing the rules every time we turn around," said Herd, the national president. "When we have problems within our organization with people not abiding by the rules, we just get it straightened out, we don't change the rules."

Oxendine, the former president, said she is sure the general membership would approve a rules change if the board did.

"I can't believe that 12 intelligent women would ever not have it in their hearts to think about another Gold Star mother," Oxendine said. "You pay a high price to join the American Gold Star Mothers. I figure her dues were paid."

Spadaro isn't giving up. He had his brother, a Florida lawyer, write to the Department of Justice, noting the mothers' organization has received federal assistance and demanding an investigation.

And on Monday, during Memorial Day observances at Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 2285 in Eastchester, Lagman will be presented with a gold necklace bearing a simple gold star.

___
 
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Why the hell does that rule exist when you don't even have to be a citizen to be in the U.S. Military in the first place?
 
Holly, you are right, that's a shame. I wonder how fast the rules will be changed now that the story is out.
 
NaughtyLil1 said:
I wonder how fast the rules will be changed now that the story is out.

a proud idiot that can't distinguish "America" from "United States" said:
"There's nothing we can do because that's what our organization says: You have to be an American citizen," national President Ann Herd said Thursday. "We can't go changing the rules every time the wind blows."
"Every time the wind blows..." is it? Oh my word, how many rule changes have they already made that this is their President's expressed rationale for not making the obvious change to beome a more inclusive group. I mean, the woman's Filipino, for crying out loud, what's next?

:avery:
 
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said, "We now have many noncitizens serving honorably in our armed services, and I hope that this can be satisfactorily resolved."


Then why don't you do something instead of always giving lip service you friggin' evil puppet?
 
DevilishTexan said:
Then why don't you do something instead of always giving lip service you friggin' evil puppet?
You're suggesting what? She author a bill requiring a private organization to change their memnership rules? Yeah, that's a productive use of Congressional time.
 
LukkyKnight said:
You're suggesting what? She author a bill requiring a private organization to change their memnership rules? Yeah, that's a productive use of Congressional time.


Course not. She could just have one of her back room partners make a call and voila, instant membership.
 
LukkyKnight said:
You're suggesting what? She author a bill requiring a private organization to change their memnership rules? Yeah, that's a productive use of Congressional time.


it would probably be a better use of her congressional time than what she does now.

Gold Star Inc. sucks big green donkey dicks.
 
DevilishTexan said:
Course not. She could just have one of her back room partners make a call and voila, instant membership.


I don't hear any of your fucktard pals over at the White House speaking up about it.
 
DevilishTexan said:
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said, "We now have many noncitizens serving honorably in our armed services, and I hope that this can be satisfactorily resolved."


Then why don't you do something instead of always giving lip service you friggin' evil puppet?


Nicely said
 
I'm trying to figure out how Hilary Clinton is able to be both a puppet and the person pulling the strings at the same time.

But, more than that, I think this is this outrageous situation is the sort of thing that people of all political persuasions ought to be able to agree about, without it being an opportunity to push a partisan agenda.

(And yeah, I took a shot at the White House, which I shouldn't have.)
 
First, that's ridiculous. Just completely ridiculous. Heck, I've been born and raised in the U.S., and my father is still a foreign citizen (but a legalized American resident)...and he's lived here long enough to become a naturalized citizen like 4 times over, but chooses not to...why? Because he travels a lot for work, and it's much easier for him to travel on his passport than an American one.

But anyway....


LukkyKnight said:
You're suggesting what? She author a bill requiring a private organization to change their memnership rules? Yeah, that's a productive use of Congressional time.
Hey, given the current wacked-out Republican Congress that showed with the Schiavo nonsense that they have no qualms about creating a bill which is effectively directed at *one* person, why the hell not!.. LOL... Addressing a problem that may effect a number of people would at least be a *step* in the right direction.


hydrex said:
it would probably be a better use of her congressional time than what she does now.
Which is what exactly, as you perceive it?


DevilishTexan said:
Course not. She could just have one of her back room partners make a call and voila, instant membership.
1) Remember, it's all a giant complex plan, perpetrated by the Illuminati! And JFK was killed by multiple people, but The Man covered it up! And let's not even get into Area 51! (insert theremin music here)

2) Your insinuation is that she has "back room partners" and that this is a bad thing. Take a look at the executive branch of federal politics lately? LOL...
 
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LukkyKnight said:
You're suggesting what? She author a bill requiring a private organization to change their memnership rules? Yeah, that's a productive use of Congressional time.

Is it a good use of the court's time telling the boys scouts they need to allow gay scouts and shit?
 
marshalt said:
Is it a good use of the court's time telling the boys scouts they need to allow gay scouts and shit?
Actually, as that is THEIR JOB, well, then yes.
 
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UnknownWanderer said:
Actually, as that is THEIR JOB, well, then yes.

So it's alright to tell a private organization what they can and can't do, as long as it's the courts doing it?
 
marshalt said:
So it's alright to tell a private organization what they can and can't do, as long as it's the courts doing it?

You do realize what the judicial branch does, right?
What their role in the political process is?...especially at the federal/national level? As opposed to the legislative and executive?

(BTW, also, have you heard of the Constitution? It may be helpful to answer the italicized question above.)
 
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marshalt said:
Yeah, but that's not the issue.
Actually, it is PRECISELY the issue...

You said: "So it's alright to tell a private organization what they can and can't do, as long as it's the courts doing it?"

You are discussing the role of the judicial (as opposed to legislative or executive) branch in politics by asking that question. If you understood "what the judicial branch does", then you wouldn't be asking that question.
 
Fuck, people . . . I thought for sure this would be one area where everyone could agree to be non-fucking-partisan. Too much to hope for?

What I'm surprised about is that the other members haven't come out to demand a rule change. This is an organisation that is supposed to be united by the sharing of one tragic event in all of their lives. It's horrible that they would exclude someone based on such a xenophobic viewpoint.

Their sons and daughters died to protect this country, and by allowing this grieving mother, who's son paid the ultimate sacrifice, to be rejected in this way dishonors their own lost sons and daughters memory and honor.
 
Holly Delight said:
I have to believe that this Ann Herd person has ice in her veins.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050527/ap_on_re_us/gold_star_mother

Slain Soldier's Mom Rejected by Gold Star By JIM FITZGERALD, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 17 minutes ago

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - Everyone agrees that Ligaya Lagman is a Gold Star mother, part of the long line of mournful women whose sons or daughters gave their lives for their country. Her 27-year-old son, Army Staff Sgt. Anthony Lagman, was killed last year in Afghanistan, but American Gold Star Mothers Inc., has rejected Lagman, a Filipino, for membership because — though a permanent resident and a taxpayer — she is not a U.S. citizen.

"There's nothing we can do because that's what our organization says: You have to be an American citizen," national President Ann Herd said Thursday. "We can't go changing the rules every time the wind blows."

That explanation isn't satisfying the war veterans who sponsored Lagman's application, some other members of the mothers' group or several members of Congress.

"It is disheartening that any mother of a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who has died in the line of duty would be denied membership in an organization that honors the memory of fallen service men and women," said Rep. Nita Lowey (news, bio, voting record), whose district includes Lagman's home in Yonkers.

Rep. Eliot Engel (news, bio, voting record), who represents an adjoining district, said the group should change its rules immediately.

"Whatever the excuse, American Gold Star Mothers' decision smacks of xenophobia and is in stark contrast to what Mrs. Lagman's son fought and died for," Engel said.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said, "We now have many noncitizens serving honorably in our armed services, and I hope that this can be satisfactorily resolved."

A past president of the mothers' group, Dorothy Oxendine, of Farmingdale, said, "There's no discrimination in a national cemetery. There's no discrimination when they get killed side by side. So how can we discriminate against a mother?"

Another past president, Ann Wolcott, of York, Pa., said, "Times have changed since this organization was started, and there are a lot of men and women serving today whose parents are not citizens. I think they deserve every honor and privilege that we have as Gold Star mothers."

Oxendine and Wolcott said they believe that given the increasing diversity of the armed forces there have been noncitizens in the 1,200-member organization who overlooked or ignored the citizenship question on the application.

Lagman has lived in the United States for more than 20 years. She was not at home Thursday, apparently tending to her husband, who is hospitalized. But her other son, Chris Lagman, said in Thursday's The Journal News that all she wants "is recognition as the mother of this fallen soldier."

Lagman's application was initiated by Ben Spadaro, a veteran from Yonkers, who said he learned about the citizenship rules of the American Gold Star Mothers while working on a national cemetery committee of the Veterans Administration. When he learned of Anthony Lagman's death and saw Lagman was a citizen but his mother was not, he thought, "He's buried in a military cemetery, with full honors. She should be able to join."

"We decided to tell the absolute truth on the application," he said. "We put down, `I am not an American citizen.' It was a ploy to get them to reject her, and then we said they should change the rules."

But the organization's 12-member executive board voted against any change.

"We can't go changing the rules every time we turn around," said Herd, the national president. "When we have problems within our organization with people not abiding by the rules, we just get it straightened out, we don't change the rules."

Oxendine, the former president, said she is sure the general membership would approve a rules change if the board did.

"I can't believe that 12 intelligent women would ever not have it in their hearts to think about another Gold Star mother," Oxendine said. "You pay a high price to join the American Gold Star Mothers. I figure her dues were paid."

Spadaro isn't giving up. He had his brother, a Florida lawyer, write to the Department of Justice, noting the mothers' organization has received federal assistance and demanding an investigation.

And on Monday, during Memorial Day observances at Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 2285 in Eastchester, Lagman will be presented with a gold necklace bearing a simple gold star.

___


Ice in their veins, quite likely.

But they are running an organization that has its rules and those rules state what they do, the fact that they have not changed with the times is intresting.

The government could take some lessons in holding firm to the rules.

And everyone could take the lesson that sometimes rules, regulations and other such devices need to be kept up with the times as they change.

I am glad that civil people have choosen to championed her cause and give her the recognition that ice blooded bitches won't. Reckon she does not want their condescending empathy should they change theur mind.
 
DevilishTexan said:
Course not. She could just have one of her back room partners make a call and voila, instant membership.

So you condone this manner of doing congressional business!

And the answer is Yes or No.
 
Paendragon said:
Fuck, people . . . I thought for sure this would be one area where everyone could agree to be non-fucking-partisan. Too much to hope for?

What I'm surprised about is that the other members haven't come out to demand a rule change. This is an organisation that is supposed to be united by the sharing of one tragic event in all of their lives. It's horrible that they would exclude someone based on such a xenophobic viewpoint.

Their sons and daughters died to protect this country, and by allowing this grieving mother, who's son paid the ultimate sacrifice, to be rejected in this way dishonors their own lost sons and daughters memory and honor.


I agree. I wonder why people in other countries disrespect the USA, eh?
 
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