This is Feedback I Didn't Like.

[Boxlicker101]

I recently got this feedback in an email:


This message contains feedback for: Boxlicker101
About the submission: My Cute Nieces Ch. 01
This feedback was sent by: Anonymous

Title:

Heaven

Comments:

Oh! To have nieces that are so talented and sexy is just the best. I, myself, am in the process of bringing the sexaholic out of my own 11-year-old niece. All we did so far is fingering, hand-jobs, and oral sex. I should introduce her to the joys of anal and vaginal penetration soon. I'm just so happy she's willing and in control of herself.

The cute nieces I wrote about are fictitious 18 year olds.

 

[SamScribble]

Boxlicker, you can't control who reads your stuff or how they choose to stretch their interpretation of it. As one of my editors says: In the end, it's not what you put in; it's what the reader takes out.

 

[3113]

I'm pretty doubtful that this is real, Box. Most likely some troll trying to fuck with you and piss you off. But you could, if you like pm it to Laurel. There might be a way for the owners of the site to trace who anonymous is and give them a scare by reporting this to the FBI.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm pretty doubtful that this is real, Box. Most likely some troll trying to fuck with you and piss you off. But you could, if you like pm it to Laurel. There might be a way for the owners of the site to trace who anonymous is and give them a scare by reporting this to the FBI.

Those were my thoughts when I read it. I can't imagine some guy crowing about seducing his eleven year old niece. That sort of thing does happen, but the men would usually dummy up about it. Even so, it could be true, and I don't like some guy getting away with it. I also don't feel guilty.

I think I will send it to Laurel and see what comes of it. Probably nothing, but I would feel better about it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Those were my thoughts when I read it. I can't imagine some guy crowing about seducing his eleven year old niece. That sort of thing does happen, but the men would usually dummy up about it. Even so, it could be true, and I don't like some guy getting away with it. I also don't feel guilty.

I think I will send it to Laurel and see what comes of it. Probably nothing, but I would feel better about it.

This feedback is straight form one of the whack jobs who patrol the "incest is best" thread in the fetish forum.

I am a fan of "fantasy incest" but spending time in that thread can sicken you pretty quickly.

Ods are this guy has the fantasy about his niece, but hopefully is not "bringing" anything out in her.

This also proves that despite lit's under age rule the reader is going to go down whatever path they want.

I can see why you are offended. we write for fun and fantasy and thought we could be encouraging this type of thing is disturbing. That is personally why I stay away from dad/daughter uncle niece.

But they will have these fantasies regardless of us.

I would also be lax in not taking a minute to plug my usual disgust for the non consent section where the authors get lovely comments about how their readers fantasize about raping women and how their story just encourages that behavior.

But don;t worry about it as long as they are 18 it's okay here.

 

[Anjasa]

I can see why you are offended. we write for fun and fantasy and thought we could be encouraging this type of thing is disturbing. That is personally why I stay away from dad/daughter uncle niece.

Yea, I definitely understand this. I have very clear and distinctive lines on what's okay and what's not - consent is typically my key word - but my readers might not have such a defined line. Or, at the very least, their fantasies may be based more in the 'real' world than my stories.

And yes, it's very likely fake. At least I'd hope it was fake. I wouldn't put it above some people to brag about their crimes - because people do - but hopefully if he is doing something, he'll be caught.

Dan Savage once said the reason he was so hesitant to take email submissions is because you can tell so much more from a person's handwriting. He once got a letter from a 13 year old girl talking about how much she loved it when her daddy fucked her - but because it was written in perfect calligraphy, Dan was able to tell it was just some adult's spanking material.

I'm sorry about the feedback. I know that must be disturbing.

 

[Chiara23]

Non-consent/rape

I'm not a fan myself, having come very close to being gang-raped if it hadn't been for some friends who saw me get dragged into a room at a party. I wasn't drunk or stoned, but because I'm very petite it wasn't hard for these 3 guys to grab me and hustle me to where they thought no one could see. Thank god for good friends!

 

[Etaski]

I would also be lax in not taking a minute to plug my usual disgust for the non consent section where the authors get lovely comments about how their readers fantasize about raping women and how their story just encourages that behavior.

But don;t worry about it as long as they are 18 it's okay here.

Mr. Lovecraft, I do say that your "usual plugs" are getting boring, but I'd also like to offer you food for thought.

You claim to be a follower of Laveyan Satanism, but I find the problem with such claims is often that people just like it for the shock value, and like many Christians, you take only what you find convenient at the time.

Satanism advocates self-responsibility in favor of putting faith in or eschewing blame onto an invisible being. "I believe in myself and my abilities." I.e. we each take responsibility for our own actions.

People have been being assholes to each other for long before there were rape or incest fantasies on the internet; they hardly need the help, and there are and have been innumerable other ways to come to the same crimes against another.

But your constantly advocating censorship of and/or trying to heap shame on anyone who likes the Non-Con/Reluctance/Force/Rape category (while you like the incest one) is not only hypocritical, but against your supposed Satanistic teachings.

Did you happen to read the part about "indulgence, not compulsion"? You control the darkness, or the darkness controls you. Learn to accept the kinks in yourself without shame and find a way to still be productive and in control of yourself in the current laws of the land (by which if you are a part, you must respect. There's also the part about respecting someone in their own den, or don't go there.)

Fantasies are such outlets, and they do not "encourage" crimes any more than violent video games or music cause school shootings or the fact that the auto industry builds cars is causing all those accidents.

It still amounts to personal responsibility.

And if someone can't control themselves, and they rape or break another law protecting others, then they have not learned to control the compulsion and are liable for whatever punishment their society chooses to deal out if they're caught.

I'm all for chemical castration of serial rapists, actually. I still like rape fantasies. I know the difference. You claim to teach women self-defence; excellent, please keep doing that. That is truly productive in the land in which you live.

But you are wrong in your thinking for trying to heap shame on others for their chosen outlet; that's what Christians do, isn't that what Lavey criticized?

Satanism is actually a good stepping stone toward true Humanism, but it lacks one important thing: compassion for humanity as a whole and the desire to see it supported by reason and love. It is a very self-centered philosophy on the whole (though not without its good points), and you have been an excellent example of that, with a few of the Judeo-Christian shame-themes thrown in there.

If you can't take the step from Satanism to Humanism, then at least be a better Satanist and leave this particular dead dog alone for a while.

 

[Angellica1612]

I've always felt that you can't heap shame on someone else no matter what you're critisizing - either they are going to disagree and ignore you, hence no shame, or they already feel shame but cover it with bravado. Shame is a self-directed emotion. I have to wonder if this person is a victim of incest in real life, hence the hatred of these stories. It's not logical, but victims of any sexual crime feel shame.

I see no reason for anyone to feel ashamed of having fantasies of any stripe. It's a very basic human trait, and a very individual one. Incest stories make me uncomfortable, reluctance stories turn me on. Someone else may be just the opposite. Who cares? I am a Christian, in that I believe in God and following Christian laws, but I don't try to shame anyone for their fantasies.

I have 4 stories on Lit. Anonymous has commented on all of them, mostly in a complimentary fashion. Though he did make 2 comments on one of my stories (reluctance category) and contradicted himself.

 

[Boxlicker101]

This what Laurel replied:

Hi Box!

Thanks for writing, and I hope your 2012 is off to a great start!

Wow, that's absolutely horrifying. Because it was sent anonymously and with no return address, there's no way to track it down. Even so, because it is so strangely explicit, I would guess (and perhaps hope) that it's a troll messing with authors' heads. It's pretty well known that Lit doesn't post underage, so we generally don't attract that type of reader.

If you do ever receive that sort of feedback with a return address, please do let me know.

Thanks again, and take care,

Laurel

Basically, I think the same thing, that it's some troll trying to mess with my mind. And succeeding, because I know this kind of thing really does happen. It won't change my writing, though. I will still write Inc.est stories.

 

[sr71plt]

Underage is not the aspect this was posted under, though. Obviously the incest category attracts elements that are similar to the elements the website is trying to keep out by not posting underage. Other websites and distributors are choking out incest for similar reasons they choke out underage--and, yes, rape. Down the line I could see both incest and nonconsent/rape being banned here as well.

 

[autoplot]

Mr. Lovecraft, I do say that your "usual plugs" are getting boring, but I'd also like to offer you food for thought.

You claim to be a follower of Laveyan Satanism, but I find the problem with such claims is often that people just like it for the shock value, and like many Christians, you take only what you find convenient at the time.

Satanism advocates self-responsibility in favor of putting faith in or eschewing blame onto an invisible being. "I believe in myself and my abilities." I.e. we each take responsibility for our own actions.

But your constantly advocating censorship of and/or trying to heap shame on anyone who likes the Non-Con/Reluctance/Force/Rape category (while you like the incest one) is not only hypocritical, but against your supposed Satanistic teachings.

Great post, but unfortunately, Lovecraft's blatant double standard has been evident since the beginning. His fiction is just fiction. Other people's fiction is crazy weirdo material that they totally want to act out in real life.

Lovecraft knows the difference between fantasy and reality, but his position has long been that the people he disagrees with are fundamentally incapable of making said distinction.

Which I find kind of baffling, but whatever.

 

[lovecraft68]

Mr. Lovecraft, I do say that your "usual plugs" are getting boring, but I'd also like to offer you food for thought.

You claim to be a follower of Laveyan Satanism, but I find the problem with such claims is often that people just like it for the shock value, and like many Christians, you take only what you find convenient at the time.

Satanism advocates self-responsibility in favor of putting faith in or eschewing blame onto an invisible being. "I believe in myself and my abilities." I.e. we each take responsibility for our own actions.

People have been being assholes to each other for long before there were rape or incest fantasies on the internet; they hardly need the help, and there are and have been innumerable other ways to come to the same crimes against another.

But your constantly advocating censorship of and/or trying to heap shame on anyone who likes the Non-Con/Reluctance/Force/Rape category (while you like the incest one) is not only hypocritical, but against your supposed Satanistic teachings.

Did you happen to read the part about "indulgence, not compulsion"? You control the darkness, or the darkness controls you. Learn to accept the kinks in yourself without shame and find a way to still be productive and in control of yourself in the current laws of the land (by which if you are a part, you must respect. There's also the part about respecting someone in their own den, or don't go there.)

Fantasies are such outlets, and they do not "encourage" crimes any more than violent video games or music cause school shootings or the fact that the auto industry builds cars is causing all those accidents.

It still amounts to personal responsibility.

And if someone can't control themselves, and they rape or break another law protecting others, then they have not learned to control the compulsion and are liable for whatever punishment their society chooses to deal out if they're caught.

I'm all for chemical castration of serial rapists, actually. I still like rape fantasies. I know the difference. You claim to teach women self-defence; excellent, please keep doing that. That is truly productive in the land in which you live.

But you are wrong in your thinking for trying to heap shame on others for their chosen outlet; that's what Christians do, isn't that what Lavey criticized?

Satanism is actually a good stepping stone toward true Humanism, but it lacks one important thing: compassion for humanity as a whole and the desire to see it supported by reason and love. It is a very self-centered philosophy on the whole (though not without its good points), and you have been an excellent example of that, with a few of the Judeo-Christian shame-themes thrown in there.

If you can't take the step from Satanism to Humanism, then at least be a better Satanist and leave this particular dead dog alone for a while.

and follow up on some of the rules of Satanism. We do not harm those who are defenseless nor do we advocate violence except in self defense.

I have my code and beliefs and they leave no tolerance for the abuse of women of children or the glorification of those acts.

I believe in letting people have their own beliefs and lifestyles unless it directly effects me. The act of rape has greatly effected my life. I will never pass up an opportunity to point it out as the vile cowardly act that it is.

and everytime someone here gets on their horse about under age or incest or any other topic that upsets them I will feel free to remind them how stories that encourage violent behavior is more wrong than anything else they are currently whining about.

The funny thing is the bs I get for taking a stance on it. But then again most victims of domestic abuse have many around that knows it goes on and they choose to turn the blind eye.

I do not. Trust me my dear, love me or hate me when the shit goes bad it would be me, not the mealy mouthed minions that chime in against me that you would want behind you.

 

[lovecraft68]

Great post, but unfortunately, Lovecraft's blatant double standard has been evident since the beginning. His fiction is just fiction. Other people's fiction is crazy weirdo material that they totally want to act out in real life.

Lovecraft knows the difference between fantasy and reality, but his position has long been that the people he disagrees with are fundamentally incapable of making said distinction.

Which I find kind of baffling, but whatever.

And you on the other hand are quite easy to figure out.

You lurk on the threads and wait for someone to attack someone else and then chime in with your "oh yeah? what they said!"

And go do some some research on serial rapists. It's not incest stories found on their PC.

And of course reading a story will not cause the average person to act these things out, but it will effect those predisposed towards that behavior.

what is especially encouraging to them is not so much the stories themselves, but the feedback they get. Comments about how they loved how that woman got hers and really wanted it all along.

Teaches them that "hey this must be okay!"

I crusade about this in R/L and do everything I can for the cause. what do you stand for? What are you willing to be ridiculed over? what will you take heat for?

Nothing.

I sure as hell will not hesitate to do so here to an idiot like you who has not had an original thought in his head in years and runs around parroting what others say.

Now go sit back and wait for someone else to say something about me so you can chime in again.

 

[PennLady]

I have my code and beliefs and they leave no tolerance for the abuse of women of children or the glorification of those acts.

I think there are few rational people who have tolerance for the abuse of men or women or children. A story about them doesn't necessarily glorify them. Do murder mysteries glorify murder? If you think so, do you not read them on principle?

I believe in letting people have their own beliefs and lifestyles unless it directly effects me. The act of rape has greatly effected my life. I will never pass up an opportunity to point it out as the vile cowardly act that it is.

Again, no one's saying rape is not a vile, despicable act, no matter who perpetrates it or who is raped. Fantasies of rape, of giving up control and being ravished are very common, but it hardly means those who have the fantasies want to be raped, or to perpetrate it. Just like Patricia Cornwall writing murder mysteries doesn't mean she wants to kill people -- or be cop.

and every time someone here gets on their horse about under age or incest or any other topic that upsets them I will feel free to remind them how stories that encourage violent behavior is more wrong than anything else they are currently whining about.

Just because a story is written or a song is sung about abuse, or murder, or whatever, does not mean that the behavior is being encouraged. Are you encouraging brothers to screw their sisters in a BDSM relationship? And I think there are a lot of other things higher up on the worry list.

But seriously, does "Janie's Got a Gun" encourage people to kill their abuser? Does "Take the Money and Run" encourage people to rob banks like Bonnie and Clyde? Or does the movie "Bonnie and Clyde" do that?

The funny thing is the bs I get for taking a stance on it. But then again most victims of domestic abuse have many around that knows it goes on and they choose to turn the blind eye.

I do not. Trust me my dear, love me or hate me when the shit goes bad it would be me, not the mealy mouthed minions that chime in against me that you would want behind you.

Well, thanks for pre-judging.

Please -- comparing a discussion and disagreement in an anonymous email forum hardly compares to domestic physical or verbal abuse. The reason you get bs is this: you have talked a lot about an incest story you wrote; incest is illegal in most places no matter the age of the participants or consent. (Never mind the BDSM and other aspects.) How is this not "glorifying" incest, as you accuse others of glorifying things you don't like in their stories? Then you get on their case when they write something you don't care for/don't like/disagree with, whatever you want to say. You say it's so much worse -- but why?

 

[sr71plt]

Just like Patricia Cornwall writing murder mysteries doesn't mean she wants to kill people -- or be cop.

Perhaps not the best example. She was run out of Virginia for messing around too much with both of those in real life . . . oh, and for claims she was having an affair with the governor's wife.

 

[PennLady]

Perhaps not the best example. She was run out of Virginia for messing around too much with both of those in real life . . . oh, and for claims she was having an affair with the governor's wife.

Sorry, I don't read a lot of mysteries and she was the first author who came to mind. But I could find others, like James Ellroy, Tony Hillerman, Elmore Leonard, Nora Roberts, or Patricia Highsmith, all of whom have written murder mysteries (or stories with murder in them).

I'm open for other examples, but I think my general point stands.

 

[sr71plt]

Sorry, I don't read a lot of mysteries and she was the first author who came to mind. But I could find others, like James Ellroy, Tony Hillerman, Elmore Leonard, Nora Roberts, or Patricia Highsmith, all of whom have written murder mysteries (or stories with murder in them).

I'm open for other examples, but I think my general point stands.

Yep, your point is well taken; I was just amused at the specific example. Cornwell trained to be an FBI agent under false pretenses (to get background for her books), seduced a female FBI agent (for the same reason), and caused a fire fight between the agent and her husband in a northern Virginia church that made a hostage out of a minister and almost got him killed in the cross-fire. I think you could say that Cornwall brought her writing to reality a bit more than most authors have.

I trust she's leading a more sedate life in Connecticut.

Anyhow, I think the sidebar is a relief from yet another round of "Your perversion stinks; mine is fine."

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Yep, your point is well taken; I was just amused at the specific example. Cornwell trained to be an FBI agent under false pretenses (to get background for her books), seduced a female FBI agent (for the same reason), and caused a fire fight between the agent and her husband in a northern Virginia church that made a hostage out of a minister and almost got him killed in the cross-fire."

That would make a hell of a story. Does that appear anywhere other than in he newspapers?

 

[PennLady]

Yep, your point is well taken; I was just amused at the specific example. Cornwell trained to be an FBI agent under false pretenses (to get background for her books), seduced a female FBI agent (for the same reason), and caused a fire fight between the agent and her husband in a northern Virginia church that made a hostage out of a minister and almost got him killed in the cross-fire. I think you could say that Cornwall brought her writing to reality a bit more than most authors have.

I trust she's leading a more sedate life in Connecticut.

Anyhow, I think the sidebar is a relief from yet another round of "Your perversion stinks; mine is fine."

Like I said, I don't read a ton of mysteries and I haven't read any of Cornwell's. I think the only thing of hers I did read was her book on Jack the Ripper (which as I recall was not widely accepted, to say the least). Nor was I familiar with her background. She sounds like a nut.

 

[sr71plt]

That would make a hell of a story. Does that appear anywhere other than in he newspapers?

Not that I know of. But there was a lot of coverage of her antics while she was in Virginia--moving between Richmond and where I live in Charlottesville. The governor assigned her to the chair of some important State commission, which set off a lot of yammering--and caused the press to look into it and try to make connections between that and a payoff to get Cornwall to lay off the governor's wife (who was a big wig in education circles and had written a lesbian book early in her career). Next thing we knew, Cornwall had packed up and moved to Connecticut and the press hushed up.

The shootout in northern Virginia then surfaced what Cornwall had been doing at the Quantico FBI academy, though, (taking notes and seducing female agents) and caused another little flurry of press. The shoot-out was interesting in itself. The agent's husband took a Methodist minister hostage in his church in Herndon (Fairfax County) and demanded that his wife and Cornwall show up there before he'd release the minister. The wife showed up, guns blazing, and the husband blazed back. And, miraculously no one was killed. Cornwall was drinking tea and smiling in Connecticut.

 

[sr71plt]

Like I said, I don't read a ton of mysteries and I haven't read any of Cornwell's. I think the only thing of hers I did read was her book on Jack the Ripper (which as I recall was not widely accepted, to say the least). Nor was I familiar with her background. She sounds like a nut.

I tried reading hers (because she was a local author at the time), but I found her protagonist so dreary I wanted to slap her around and do the "Cher thing" ("Snap outa it.").

 

[PennLady]

I tried reading hers (because she was a local author at the time), but I found her protagonist so dreary I wanted to slap her around and do the "Cher thing" ("Snap outa it.").

Then I think I shall leave those books alone. There's plenty more out there to read. Such as the collection of 20th century noir stories I got from Amazon. I've found I can only read a couple at a time, as they're a wee bit on the dark side. Funny, I'll read just about anything, but the whole mystery genre has never done much for me.

 

[sr71plt]

Then I think I shall leave those books alone. There's plenty more out there to read. Such as the collection of 20th century noir stories I got from Amazon. I've found I can only read a couple at a time, as they're a wee bit on the dark side. Funny, I'll read just about anything, but the whole mystery genre has never done much for me.

I'm addicted to a new-found (to me) author now, the Italian detective series, Andrea Camilleri. And I've just picked up the new LeCarre (Our Kind of Traitor). Unfortunately I'm swamped at the moment with required reading of books by fellow mystery panelists at a coming book festival. (I have a mainstream detective procedural mystery coming off the press in the next couple of days, if it hasn't already been printed.) So, I guess you could say the genre I follow in the mainstream is mysteries.

I found Cornwall's protagonist unreadable (just too irritating), and I'm afraid I'm finding Kathy Reich's just about the same. (The protagonists are both coroner types--one in Richmond, the other in Canada.)

 

[Handley_Page]

I recently got this feedback in an email:


This message contains feedback for: Boxlicker101
About the submission: My Cute Nieces Ch. 01
This feedback was sent by: Anonymous

Title:

Heaven

Comments:

Oh! To have nieces that are so talented and sexy is just the best. I, myself, am in the process of bringing the sexaholic out of my own 11-year-old niece. All we did so far is fingering, hand-jobs, and oral sex. I should introduce her to the joys of anal and vaginal penetration soon. I'm just so happy she's willing and in control of herself.

The cute nieces I wrote about are fictitious 18 year olds.

I suspect it is a spoof; a wind-up, a sick joke.
Only a mind so sick that it's in need of serious medical help would be serious about it.