This is deplorable!!! Afganistan and its policies.

[crystalhunting]

Take a look at this........from LeMonde{French mazazine}



THE WORLD ISOLATES THE TALIBAN

Afghanistan all alone

by GILLES DORRONSORO

Adding to their unpopularity, the Taliban decided in May to force
Hindus living in Afghanistan to wear a distinctive sign on their
clothing. The recent UN Security Council embargo has increased the
regimes isolation, but its full force is being felt by the Afghan
people who are also suffering from an unprecedented drought. To
make matters worse, the Taliban have responded to the sanctions by
suspending talks with the opposition. Ahmad Shah Massoud, one of
its most prominent leaders, received expressions of support in
Europe in April. Yet western policy towards Afghanistan remains
deeply ambiguous.

Translated by Malcolm
Greenwood

<http://www.en.monde-diplomatique.fr/2001/06/04taliban>

CH

 

[lavender]

 

[Todd]

I think everyone agrees that it is deplorable what the Taliban is doing in Afghanistan. The problem is, what do we do about it?

No offense to anyone by this, but what makes us think as North Americans that "WE" have the "Rights" to go in there and do anything about it?

 

[crystalhunting]

Todd...did you actually read the article?...susspose I were to come to you and say....that for now on..since I dont like your religion,you are required to wear a special symbol at all times,that identifies you as a heretic and a second class citizen.

Todd,would you want the rest of the world to allow you to be denied your human dignity?

I doubt that.

btw..it was your friend WriterDom who put up a similar thread not to long ago,perhaps you should ask him....if this is still above your head.




CH

 

[lavender]

 

[Cync]

No offense to anyone by this, but what makes us think as North Americans that "WE" have the "Rights" to go in there and do anything about it?

Todd, for all the crap you preach I'd expect better.

Since when did defending human rights first require getting some sort of permission first?

After a comment like that I'm up for a little more amusement: What are your feelings in our involvement in Europe during World War 2? Sure we did good things, but we should have probably asked Hitler if he minded us coming over for a little while, right?

 

[Todd]

Todd...did you actually read the article?...susspose I were to come to you and say....that for now on..since I dont like your religion,you are required to wear a special symbol at all times,that identifies you as a heretic and a second class citizen.

Though unwriteen anywheres most employers do treat Christians as a second class citizen

Todd,would you want the rest of the world to allow you to be denied your human dignity?

If Today June 17, 2001 legislation took away the rights of christians in the world, I highly doubt anyone would bat an eyelash.

I doubt that.

btw..it was your friend WriterDom who put up a similar thread not to long ago,perhaps you should ask him....if this is still above your head.

I understand the issue completely, And I don't doubt for a moment that in the backs of the Taliban mind North AMerican intervetntion is planned on and anticipated to excalate this into something much huger than it is. I doubt that if North America wasn't so influencial and such a butinski big brother that it would even come to what it now has. Currently it is a political Chess game, Religion and ethnic discrimination is merely the first pawns to be played in the game yet to unfold on the world table before us in the east.

But of course I am just an ignoramous assipe who doesn't know anything

CH [/B]

 

[crystalhunting]

You know...its not like this is the only thing they have done...dynamiteing a World archeological treasure because their buddy Osama Bin Laden told em it was evil is really pathetic.

Confiscateing all money owned by women in the bank and handing it over to the closeest male relative because women are regarded as lower than dogs....thats pathetic as well.

Imprisioning people of jewish desent because they will not convert...is outright barabaric.


Do you have blinders on Todd?...or do you truly have no idea of how the rest of the world really is?



CH

 

[Todd]

You know...its not like this is the only thing they have done...dynamiteing a World archeological treasure because their buddy Osama Bin Laden told em it was evil is really pathetic.

Confiscateing all money owned by women in the bank and handing it over to the closeest male relative because women are regarded as lower than dogs....thats pathetic as well.

Imprisioning people of jewish desent because they will not convert...is outright barabaric.


Do you have blinders on Todd?...or do you truly have no idea of how the rest of the world really is? CH

Like I said giant Chess Game with a yet unknown greater plan. Whcih is to late to stop the only thing we can do is postphone. It is North America's reputation as intervener's that has made all this possible. WE are merely being used as a pawn to further the plan.

 

[crystalhunting]

Spare me Todd....I have yet to see Christians be made by law to wear an identifiying symbol...

Todd,Christians DOMINATE in the USA,they are not the minority,if a Christian guy goes to a market...none refuses to wait on him,nor do white christian men and women get stopped by the police and be harrassed for their belief.

I havent seen a systematic goverment closing of christian churches as of yet or people being beaten for being a christian.


But these things DO EXIST in modern day Afganistan


OPEN YOUR DAMN EYES TODD!!!


CH

 

[lavender]

 

[OUTSIDER]

No offense to anyone by this, but what makes us think as North Americans that "WE" have the "Rights" to go in there and do anything about it?

Todd the US and the UN don't have to physically intervene in Afganistan they do have the choice of sanction's.

 

[Closet Desire]

I'm still in shock...

...over the destruction of ancient artifacts and statues by the Taliban. They are fanatically religious (which is what frightens me about "faith based" charity in the US) and will insist that the symbols they are forcing Hindus to wear are to prevent the police from enforcing the more severe rules on dress and behaviour the Taliban are held to. Yeah, I know, sounds pretty lame to me too.

I'm just speechless about the whole thing...and that hardly ever happens to me.

 

[Todd]

I havent seen a systematic goverment closing of christian churches as of yet or people being beaten for being a christian.

This isn't the only one but its the most well documented.

http://www.indianapolisbaptisttemple.com/newsarchive.html

http://www.indianapolisbaptisttemple.com/day92.html

 

[Closet Desire]

The only thing...

...sytematic in this story Todd is that employers who don't pay taxes on their workers can expect the government to take action. The workers in the church were paid wages for their services and the church, in it's infinite wisdom decided to keep Ceasar's due. It's not bias toward Christians...it's bias toward tax cheats. Big difference.

 

[Todd]

Re: The only thing...

...sytematic in this story Todd is that employers who don't pay taxes on their workers can expect the government to take action. The workers in the church were paid wages for their services and the church, in it's infinite wisdom decided to keep Ceasar's due. It's not bias toward Christians...it's bias toward tax cheats. Big difference.

there are links to the court transcripts the judges found that the church had done no wrong, that every one had paid thier full taxes. The issue was the church would not conform to the 501 c3 bill. Its a matter of the government wanting to control the church, not a matter of the church not paying the tax. The IRS audits proves that more taxes were paid by the "employes" filling under self employed than if they had of been employed by the church and the church paying the taxes before paying the people.

 

[Problem Child]

I think Todd has a point when he says "what are we supposed to do about it?"

We have about two options as has been mentioned:

1) War.

2) Sanctions.

Sure we could go to war against the Afghans, but it wouldn't be a conventional war like the one we fought and easily won in the gulf. It would be a hard-fought, ugly, dirty infantry/guerilla war like the one we lost in Viet Nam and the one the Russians lost in the same country we are talking about now.

I think we could go in there and kick some ass on the Afghanis, but at what cost? How many men would we lose?

Do you really think it's possible to bomb them into submission and make them change their deeply held religious beliefs? Has anyone ever been able to do that, whether it be in the middle east or Ireland or anywhere else? As soon as we left they would be right back at it. So then what? An occupying force in one of the most hell-forsaken spots on earth for the forseeable eternity. Not my idea of a workable plan.

There are tragedies of differing scales all over the globe- in Liberia, and Rwanda, and East Timor, etc., etc. This is one of the last places I would like to see the U.S. get involved in.

As far as sanctions go...sure, they work real well in underdeveloped countries that have despots and religious fanatics in charge.

Give me a break. The only people that feel the pain of sanctions in these types of countries are the ones that least deserve it, never those in charge.

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

I agree, lavender that sending in Peace-keepers might have some small effect.

Yet, I just keep thinking back to what ferocious fighters the Afghans (is it Afghans or Afghani's) are. I mean, they took on the fucking RUSSIANS at the height of the Soviet Union's military arc and outlasted them. The stories from the fights in Afghanistan are brutal on par with our worst from VN.

I could very easily see them not giving two shits about ambushing UN peacekeepers and sleeping very well at night.

There is another alternative though. This might be one area where the CIA could make a difference, by infiltrating and disprupting their organization, and by building a resistance movement. They may already be there for all we know.

 

[lavender]

 

[Problem Child]

lavender-

We've been agreeing all day.

This is getting pathetic.

 

[lavender]

 

[Desert Amazon]

What Next?

 

[The_old_man]

They make a real good BAD example of Religious Government don't they.

Also the basic reason for separation of church and state.

 

[Desert Amazon]