There's nothing wrong with being wrong

[rgraham666]

An interesting video on our attitude towards error, why this attitude is harmful and how it could be changed. It's about seventeen minutes long, but worth the watch.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That was interesting, thanks!

I think we've added "being right" to our list of Godly things, along with cleanliness and wealth. Being wrong is now a social sin, just like being poor is.

I'm going to try to renounce the need to Be Right at all times... man that's going to fuck with some peoples' heads!

 

[3113]

"The miracle of your minds isn't that you can see the world as it is, it's that you can see the world as it isn't." --Kathryn Schulz

Words worth quoting, I think.

 

[3113]

I'm going to try to renounce the need to Be Right at all times... man that's going to fuck with some peoples' heads!

I think I'll start slowly and try not to sound like I'm right all the time. Once I get enough practice at that, then maybe I can move into being wrong now and then...

 

[Stella_Omega]

"The miracle of your minds isn't that you can see the world as it is, it's that you can see the world as it isn't." --Kathryn Schulz

Words worth quoting, I think.

Could have been Terry Pratchett!

I think I'll start slowly and try not to sound like I'm right all the time. Once I get enough practice at that, then maybe I can move into being wrong now and then...

yeah, you don't want to strain something...

 

[3113]

yeah, you don't want to strain something...

You're just jealous because I'm right.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You're just jealous because I'm right.

Nope, guess again.

 

[TE999]

That lecture seemed to me as a paean to indecision. If you don't think you're right, you'll never do anything. Experience is a harsh teacher, and she sometimes kills her students, but we all learn by doing.

After a series of unproductive experiments with various light bulb filaments, Edison remarked that "He hadn't failed, he just proved that those didn't work." or words to that effect. But he initially thought he was right each time until proven wrong.

It was an interesting Philosophical discussion, but for all rights and purposes not terribly applicable to living life to the fullest on a day to day basis.

 

[estragon]

Aren't there degrees of "right"? I think we can agree that if we stick our finger in a fire, we will be burned. But on a philosophical, not to say religious, level? We can have an endless debate, convincing no one but ourselves. At that level, I go with Justice Holmes. His law clerk told the story that if Holmes were asked to write all he was sure of on a sheet of paper, he said he's get halfway down the first sheet and then write "and I ain't so damn sure of that either." Montaigne did it shorter: "Que sais-je?"

 

[Stella_Omega]

That lecture seemed to me as a paean to indecision. If you don't think you're right, you'll never do anything. Experience is a harsh teacher, and she sometimes kills her students, but we all learn by doing.

After a series of unproductive experiments with various light bulb filaments, Edison remarked that "He hadn't failed, he just proved that those didn't work." or words to that effect. But he initially thought he was right each time until proven wrong.

The thing is, he was willing to be proven wrong. Being wrong didn't kill him over and over. What she was talking about was never being willing to take that risk again-- I think.

It was an interesting Philosophical discussion, but for all rights and purposes not terribly applicable to living life to the fullest on a day to day basis.

I think it had a number of practical applications...

 

[TE999]

The thing is, he was willing to be proven wrong. Being wrong didn't kill him over and over. What she was talking about was never being willing to take that risk again-- I think. I think it had a number of practical applications...

If that lecture was aimed at people who always need to be right for whatever the reason I can see that. If she was aiming at the timid, that did little to boost their confidence IMO.

But I could be wrong.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

When results matter error is a luxury you cant afford; when results matter there are no 2nd chances. The wise know what matters.

Dear Reader

If a Rod McKuen poem had a corporeal form it would be as ROB GRAHAM.

 

[SamScribble]

Quote: If a Rod McKuen poem had a corporeal form it would be as ROB GRAHAM.

OK, JBJ, I'm usually interested in what you have to say - even when I don't agree with what you have to say. But this time, I'm struggling to understand what you are saying. It's probably my fault. Perhaps it's just because I'm feeling a bit tired. Or possibly because I know three Rob Grahams and not one of them displays anything resembling a poetic tendency. A clue please, sir?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Quote: If a Rod McKuen poem had a corporeal form it would be as ROB GRAHAM.

OK, JBJ, I'm usually interested in what you have to say - even when I don't agree with what you have to say. But this time, I'm struggling to understand what you are saying. It's probably my fault. Perhaps it's just because I'm feeling a bit tired. Or possibly because I know three Rob Grahams and not one of them displays anything resembling a poetic tendency. A clue please, sir?

Hows about I send you a copy of the official translation of Don McLean's lyrics from AMERICAN PIE?

To paraphrase e.e.cummings, ROB GRAHAM has thoughts that are deeper than all roses, and not even the rain has such small hands.

To wit: Our ROB GRAHAM is poetic nonsense whose appeal is entirely cosmetic. When I go into the jungle I do not arm myself with ROB GRAHAM.

 

[SamScribble]

Hows about I send you a copy of the official translation of Don McLean's lyrics from AMERICAN PIE?

To paraphrase e.e.cummings, ROB GRAHAM has thoughts that are deeper than all roses, and not even the rain has such small hands.

To wit: Our ROB GRAHAM is poetic nonsense whose appeal is entirely cosmetic. When I go into the jungle I do not arm myself with ROB GRAHAM.

Thank you, sir. I think.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Check out the definition of WRONG in the dictionary, I'm certain it says SEE ROB GRAHAM.

 

[rgraham666]

Thank you, sir. I think.

He's talking about me. I am the epitome of everything our good friend Jimmy Bob loathes. He never, ever passes up an opportunity to shit on me verbally.

I let him because he's even more pathetic than I am and he needs a little fun in his life.

 

[xssve]

One of the most fundamental psychological dualities of the human mind is confidence/self doubt - it reflects to some degree, the noetic/anoetic duality - in Genesis, the fall occurs because Adam and Eve become aware of good and evil, Ahriman springs from Ahura Mazda's brow in a moment of doubt - moral ambiguity is the price of consciousness.

Much of conservative philosophy is about denial of this, i.e., like TE, always act like you're right, and if you're wrong, pretend like you knew it all along, and were cleverly playing the devils advocate, congratulate them that they've finally caught up to your level, and take credit for it.

Anyway, like I told this guy one time during a heated debate, if I win the argument, it's because what I know what I already know, if I was never wrong I'd never learn anything new, and to do that, you have to be able to admit to yourself that you can be wrong.

Unfortunately, I didn't learn anything new from him.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

He's talking about me. I am the epitome of everything our good friend Jimmy Bob loathes. He never, ever passes up an opportunity to shit on me verbally.

I let him because he's even more pathetic than I am and he needs a little fun in his life.

And its fun.

 

[3113]

One of the most fundamental psychological dualities of the human mind is confidence/self doubt - it reflects to some degree, the noetic/anoetic duality - in Genesis, the fall occurs because Adam and Eve become aware of good and evil, Ahriman springs from Ahura Mazda's brow in a moment of doubt - moral ambiguity is the price of consciousness.

Ooo. I didn't know that about Ahriman! What a cool story. I like that much better than Adam and Eve. Bow-and-arrow are much more dramatic and dynamic story wise than snakes and apples.

 

[xssve]

Yes, it doesn't help that Genesis is often misinterpreted, and what follows is a lot of people offering their opinions on what good and evil are, when it's basically a question everyone has to answer for themselves, not a set of unchanging rules - growth and experience entail a certain amount of uncertainty, often a great deal of it, you'd never learn anything otherwise.

Life is a process of adaptation, if the universe stopped moving, it would cease to exist, and it's no different for us.

I'm very fond of Early ME mythology, most of the OT consists of paraphrasing and rewrites of far older myths, even back to pre-literary, oral mythology.

You would probably like Origins, a collection of ancient creation myths, it ain't the usual Sunday school gruel.

which is why
of all who live on earth
it's only people
who compound twice in doubt

 

[TE999]

Much of conservative philosophy is about denial of this, i.e., like TE, always act like you're right, and if you're wrong, pretend like you knew it all along, and were cleverly playing the devils advocate, congratulate them that they've finally caught up to your level, and take credit for it.

I have yet to be proven wrong in any of my statements concerning my Conservative/Libertarian views on things social and political...you may choose to deny them because they contradict your bleeding-heart Liberal philosophy, but that is your problem, not mine.

 

[hottchic]

That lecture seemed to me as a paean to indecision. If you don't think you're right, you'll never do anything. Experience is a harsh teacher, and she sometimes kills her students, but we all learn by doing.

After a series of unproductive experiments with various light bulb filaments, Edison remarked that "He hadn't failed, he just proved that those didn't work." or words to that effect. But he initially thought he was right each time until proven wrong.

It was an interesting Philosophical discussion, but for all rights and purposes not terribly applicable to living life to the fullest on a day to day basis.

Actually Edison did not think he was right each time, rather he eliminated interesting posibilities until he arrived at something which worked as I think the following quote proves:

"The electric light has caused me the greatest amount of study and has required the most elaborate experiments.... Although I was never myself discouraged or hopeless of its success, I can not say the same for my associates.... Through all of the years of experimenting with it, I never once made an associated discovery. It was deductive... The results I achieved were the consequence of invention - pure and simple. I would construct and work along various lines until I found them untenable. When one theory was discarded, I developed another at once. I realized very early that this was the only possible way for me to work out all the problems."

-Thomas Edison

Edison was applying scientific principles of investigation, he just had a working hypothesis.

 

[xssve]

I have yet to be proven wrong in any of my statements concerning my Conservative/Libertarian views on things social and political...you may choose to deny them because they contradict your bleeding-heart Liberal philosophy, but that is your problem, not mine.

You're wrong.

 

[hottchic]

An interesting video on our attitude towards error, why this attitude is harmful and how it could be changed. It's about seventeen minutes long, but worth the watch.

Personally, I watched this video and I liked it.

As one of those meek shy type people in the past, I have now grown to be more confident in myself not because I think that I am always right, but rather because I now believe that I have as much right to express my opinions as the next person, no more no less.

Earlier in my life often I would not speak up, because I did not want confrontation with tough talking arrogant people who always thought they were right.

Well now I have come to the belief that it does not matter so much whether I am right or whether I am wrong, the problem is if I allow myself to be arrogant in my beliefs.

The problem arises if I am so stubborn in my beliefs that I fail to see things as they really are, or if I go round saying I told you so to people if my beliefs are vindicated.

Isac Newton believed that his laws of physics were right, and so did just about everybody else until Albert Einstein proved there were discrepencies in his model. And yet as a working hypothesis Newtons Laws are still used today because the calculations are simpler than for Einstein's more complete model.

Also you must consider that Newton provided Einstein with a higher base level on which he could build.

All good knowledge is accumulated over time as a result of people's trial and error investigations built on the foundation of people who came before them.

Being able to quickly admit our errors and learn the lessons we need to learn is very important to our growth, and this ability is stunted by growing up around people who are always saying I told you so.