There must be... Poem anybody?

[Senna Jawa]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breathe and I lost that game.

On such occasions, when someone farts, cultural people pretend that nothing has happened, or otherwise they make crude jokes. Not so Literoticians. They say immediately--there must be a poem in it. Poem anybody? And a bunch of shitty poems follow.

That's how brain gets damaged. Brain, like muscles, learns from practice. You practise shitty poems and that's what you write, nothing else, even if you think that you can do both, that you can still write something profound--you can't, you're doomed (you duped yourself).

 

[My Erotic Trail]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breath and I lost that game.

On such occasions, when someone farts, cultural peoplpe pretend that nothing has happend, or otherwise thay make crude jokes. Not so Literoticians. They say immediately--there must be a poem in it. Poem anybody? And a bunch of shitty poems follow.

That's how brain gets damaged. Brain, like muscles, learns from practice. You practise shitty poems and that's what you write, nothing else, even if you think that you can do both, that you can still write something profound--you can't, you're doomed (you duped yourself).

sounds like Mrs. Tingle! <grin

a lower rated chess player beat you by farting?
Poetry about 'cutting wind?'

I must disagree, for if what you say is true then students of poetry that start out writing bad poetry never progress. You telling me that your first poem was brilliant?

Correct me if I am wrong, but, wasn't it Einstein that said that "If you do something... you should become better at it or not do it at all?"

I have heard almost all the poets here say that they are here to learn, share and write poetry. Are you saying they are duped?

No offense, I just had to add that I did not feel that that is the norm as you put it. But as we have seen so many times over;

we all die, but die differently
we all hunger, but hunger for different things
we all love, but, love different things
we all sleep, but our dreams are not the same
the one thing we do... do the same
... see the world differently!

bows (~_~) humble

 

[flyguy69]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breathe and I lost that game.
....

Had he been more highly rated, perhaps his farts wouldn't stink.

 

[Rybka]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breathe and I lost that game.

On such occasions, when someone farts, cultural people pretend that nothing has happened, or otherwise thay make crude jokes. Not so Literoticians. They say immediately--there must be a poem in it. Poem anybody? And a bunch of shitty poems follow.

That's how brain gets damaged. Brain, like muscles, learns from practice. You practise shitty poems and that's what you write, nothing else, even if you think that you can do both, that you can still write something profound--you can't, you're doomed (you duped yourself).

I've got the title:

En Passant​

 

[champagne1982]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breathe and I lost that game.

On such occasions, when someone farts, cultural people pretend that nothing has happened, or otherwise thay make crude jokes. Not so Literoticians. They say immediately--there must be a poem in it. Poem anybody? And a bunch of shitty poems follow.

That's how brain gets damaged. Brain, like muscles, learns from practice. You practise shitty poems and that's what you write, nothing else, even if you think that you can do both, that you can still write something profound--you can't, you're doomed (you duped yourself).

You're quite right. It is very easy to practice a mistake and learn it well. It is never too late to learn the proper way of doing things provided a teacher or mentor sees the mistake and takes measures to correct the student.

You really do have to admit, though, that had you swallowed your fear, along with a few molecules of the noxious odour, you may have gone on to win that game. Thus, the analogy follows that a student must be allowed to wallow in shit on occassion, for only once they have found out what and how undesireable poop truly is can they take steps (or leaps) to avoid it.

 

[Senna Jawa]

remember your focus

You guys are paying much to much attention to that chess episode (possibly I won that game, I don't remember, it's not important; and there was no odor, the place was well airconditioned etc. So, don't get excited for nothing, find better kicks).

Pay attention to the poetry part, unless you are very serious about chess. If you played a serious tournament chess game (as opposed to a casual club game) then go to the tournament director and complain. It is against the rules of chess to distract your opponent, etc.

 

[Senna Jawa]

title

I've got the title:

En Passant​

Yes!

​

 

[champagne1982]

You guys are paying much to much attention to that chess episode (possibly I won that game, I don't remember, it's not important; and there was no odor, the place was well airconditioned etc. So, don't get excited for nothing, find better kicks).

Pay attention to the poetry part, unless you are very serious about chess. If you played a serious tournament chess game (as opposed to a casual club game) then go to the tournament director and complain. It is against the rules of chess to distract your opponent, etc.

As in stories, poetry, life and chess, is it not true that sometimes the opening gambit is most important? Here at Literotica the usual practice is to make your point early on then expound on it with a little anecdote or example. You changed the order, thus in the true reaction of the beast to provocation, we all charge headfirst into the usual error.

I think it illustrates your point beautifully.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

Gene, Gene made a machine
Joe, Joe made it go
Frank, Frank turned the crank
and Art, Art let a fart and blew it all apart

 

[wildsweetone]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breathe and I lost that game.

On such occasions, when someone farts, cultural people pretend that nothing has happened, or otherwise they make crude jokes. Not so Literoticians. They say immediately--there must be a poem in it. Poem anybody? And a bunch of shitty poems follow.

That's how brain gets damaged. Brain, like muscles, learns from practice. You practise shitty poems and that's what you write, nothing else, even if you think that you can do both, that you can still write something profound--you can't, you're doomed (you duped yourself).

so, what are the best ways to practice? if i'm going to practice in the same manner i always have, then i'm not going to improve. how then should i improve my practice? (and why do i think i've spelt practice wrong?)

 

[CharleyH]

I played a game in a Texan chess club once, at the beginning of which my opponent, much lower rated than me, had farted. I was afraid to breathe and I lost that game.

On such occasions, when someone farts, cultural people pretend that nothing has happened, or otherwise they make crude jokes. Not so Literoticians. They say immediately--there must be a poem in it. Poem anybody? And a bunch of shitty poems follow.

That's how brain gets damaged. Brain, like muscles, learns from practice. You practise shitty poems and that's what you write, nothing else, even if you think that you can do both, that you can still write something profound--you can't, you're doomed (you duped yourself).

LOL a poem about what? Good god (if i was in a state to tell you) You write what shit and think its good Senna?

 

[champagne1982]

so, what are the best ways to practice? if i'm going to practice in the same manner i always have, then i'm not going to improve. how then should i improve my practice? (and why do i think i've spelt practice wrong?)

Ahhh, WSO, SJ is certain only to point out the error. He expects the student to bang against the bricks until they either break through into the daylight or knock themselves silly.

Either way, he doesn't need to do anything but instruct through telling us we're wrong.

But, in all fairness, I think we're supposed to study quality and try to reproduce it. There's a quote out there by someone famous (I think I've seen it in a signature) to the effect that the amateur imitates the master and calls it original, the professional copies the master and calls it art.

I guess it's up to us to decide whether we'd rather be an amateur or a thief. Either way, I'd like to think that my shit doesn't stink, thusly it is worthy of many beautiful poems .

 

[wildsweetone]

Ahhh, WSO, SJ is certain only to point out the error. He expects the student to bang against the bricks until they either break through into the daylight or knock themselves silly.

Either way, he doesn't need to do anything but instruct through telling us we're wrong.

But, in all fairness, I think we're supposed to study quality and try to reproduce it. There's a quote out there by someone famous (I think I've seen it in a signature) to the effect that the amateur imitates the master and calls it original, the professional copies the master and calls it art.

I guess it's up to us to decide whether we'd rather be an amateur or a thief. Either way, I'd like to think that my shit doesn't stink, thusly it is worthy of many beautiful poems .

i'll let Senna speak for himself... perhaps he'll give me some good advice. studying the masters is one way of improving my writing and i'm sure there are other ways too.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Suggestions. Point 1a.

i'll let Senna speak for himself...

Hi WildSweetOne,

Here are the related topics and subtopics:

1. What to do to yourself?
   • How to live?
   • Directly poetry writing related issues.
   • What to study?
2. What do you do to the poem?
   • What to write?
   • How to write?

As you see from this plan, I really need to go back to the development of my site. But let me at least write a few things. The initial theme of this topic belongs to point 1b.

1a How to live?

-- Be outdoors alot. Look far away. Look nearby. Listen. Stick your nose into most everything, touch and smell and taste. Learn the words, so that you can name everything around, and everything that you experience.

-- Have a small notebook and a pencil in your purse (or pocket) all the time, everywhere (so that you're always ready to jot the ideas, phrases, even the whole poems or drafts).

--Listen to the music alot. Day in and day out.

--Travel; pay attention both to the people and to the Nature (including architecture, vehicles, ...); record in your notebook the colloquial phrases which people use, and the scraps of conversations.

To be continued.

 

[Angeline]

Ahhh, WSO, SJ is certain only to point out the error. He expects the student to bang against the bricks until they either break through into the daylight or knock themselves silly.

Either way, he doesn't need to do anything but instruct through telling us we're wrong.

But, in all fairness, I think we're supposed to study quality and try to reproduce it. There's a quote out there by someone famous (I think I've seen it in a signature) to the effect that the amateur imitates the master and calls it original, the professional copies the master and calls it art.

I guess it's up to us to decide whether we'd rather be an amateur or a thief. Either way, I'd like to think that my shit doesn't stink, thusly it is worthy of many beautiful poems .

The trouble with most musicians today is that they are copycats. Of course you have to start out playing like someone else. You have a model, or a teacher, and you learn all that he can show you. But then you start playing for yourself. Show them that you’re an individual. And I can count those who are doing that today on the fingers of one hand.

Originality’s the thing. You can have tone and technique and a lot of other things but without originality you ain’t really nowhere. Gotta be original.

~ Lester Young

 

[Senna Jawa]

Suggestion 1b

1b Directly poetry writing related issues.

-- Remember about yin & yang. Do not do things overly rigidly, including following any suggestions, principles, rules. However this should not be an excuse for sloppiness! Use y&y to give yourself A SLIGHT margin of freedom in one dimension in order to get A LOT of creative freedom in another dimension.

-- Treat your poetry VERY SERIOUSLY, while at the same time have a lot of fun.

Know that poetry will give you much more fun, and of the high quality, when you are serious about poetry ALL THE TIME.

Never ever write a poem (a pseudo-poem) just around an accidental pun, without truly composing the poem as a whole, without carefully crafting EVERY and EACH of its parts and verses. You can't just add the body of a poem around one line which you like (because it's a smart one, witty... most likely it's shitty anyway). You have to care about each line. Don't believe that you have such a high technique, that you can write the rest of the poem just routinely, lightly. You're only harming yourself as a poet when you do it.

Even when you write poems "just for fun" or as a joke or for special occasions, always attempt the highest possible quality, always transcend the occasion, always write in such a way, that the poem will have its full value also outside the circumstances in which it was written. Your poem MUST be understood and MUST have an equal value also a year and five years after it was written, or else DON'T WRITE IT ALL, don't even attempt it.

-- Play all kind of poetic games; it's an important part of living the poetry, but once again make sure that your poem has its value OUTSIDE and independently of the game, that it is a good stand alone poem.

For instance, you decide to practice and have fun with alliterations. The exercise will be successful ONLY if you show your poem to the readers WITHOUT informing them that it is an exercise in alliteration, and the poem will be accepted just as a poem, just as a good poem (by the true poetry readers), and NOT as a circus shambo-mambo.

It is a MILLION times better when readers DON'T notice that your poem has an unusually high occurrence of alliterations than when they DO admire your alliterations.

-- Write variations of your own poems, and of the poems by others. set a goal for such a variation in advance and try to achieve it. Write essentially the same poem but using different forms or styles.

A minor change of the position of the corners of the mouth turns face into a happy one or sad. Can you achieve the same effect (sad versus happy) by minor, cosmetic changes to a poem, so that the description of a building will change from cheerful to sad or vice versa? ...so that the lyrical subject of the poem will or will not seem sympathetic?

-- At least from time to time write a poem which fits exactly the music which moves you, so that one can sing your poem while an orchestra is playing. (Warning: sometimes a poem may fit a musical composition as executed by one band but not by another).

-- Sometimes write when you are tired, sleepy, a bit drunk... (but do not drink for the purpose of writing poems ).

-- From time to time force yourself to write a poem as fast as you can type (but show it to the world only if the result is of high quality).

-- Collect phrases which come to your mind and which have a poetic potential. Just keep them. Don't force poems prematurely around a phrase. However, when you have three-four of them, seemingly unrelated, which have popped up in your mind on independent occasions, the odds are that they can be put together into a single poem with very little of adding and editing.

 

[bluerains]

Useful information you have passed on here...thanks

1b Directly poetry writing related issues.

-- Remember about yin & yang. Do not do things overly rigidly, including following any suggestions, principles, rules. However this should not be an excuse for sloppiness! Use y&y to creatively give yourself A SLIGHT margin of freedom in one dimension in order to get A LOT of creative freedom in another dimension.

-- Treat your poetry VERY SERIOUSLY, while at the same time have a lot of fun.

Know that poetry will give you much more fun, and of the high quality, when you are serious about poetry ALL THE TIME.

Never ever write a poem (a pseudo-poem) just around an accidental pun, without truly composing the poem as a whole, without carefully crafting EVERY and EACH of its parts and verses. You can't just add the body of a poem around one line which you like (because it's a smart one, witty... most likely it's shitty anyway). You have to care about each line. Don't believe that you have such a high technique, that you can write the rest of the poem just routinely, lightly. You're only harming yourself as a poet when you do it.

Even when you write poems "just for fun" or as a joke or for special occasions, always attempt the highest possible quality, always trnscend the occasion, always write in such a way, that the poem will have its full value also outside the circumstances iin which it was written. Your poem MUST be understood and MUST have an equal value also a year and five years after it was written, or else DON'T WRITE IT ALL, don't even attempt it.

-- Play all kind of poetic games; it's an important part of living the poetry, but once again make sure that your poem has its value OUTSIDE and independently of the game, that it is a good stand alone poem.

For instance, you decide to practice and have fun with alliterations. The exercise will be successful ONLY if you show your poem to the readers WITHOUT informing them that it is an exercise in alliteration, and the ppoem will be accepted just as a poem, just as a good poem (by the true poetry readers), and NOT as a circus shambo-mambo.

It is a MILLION times better when readers DON'T notice that your poem has an unusually high occurence of alliterations than when they DO admire your alliterations.

-- Write variations of your own poems, and of the poems by others. set a goal for such a variation in advance and try to achieve it. Write essentially the same poem but using different forms or styles.

A minor change of the position of the corners of the mouth turns face into a happy one or sad. Can you achieve the same effect (sad versus happy) by minor, cosmetic changes to a poem, so that the description of a building will change from cheerful to sad or vice versa? ...so that the lirical subject of the poem will or will not seem sympathetic?

-- At least from time to time write a poem which fits exactly the music which moves you, so that one can sing your poem while an orchestra is playing. (Warning: sometimes a poem may fit a musical composition as executed by one band but not by another).

-- Sometimes write when you are tired, sleepy, a bit drunk... (but do not drink for the purpose of writing poems ).

-- From time to time force yourself to write a poem as fast as you can type (but show it to the world only if the result is of high quality).

-- Collect phrases which come to your mind and which have a poetic potential. Just keep them. Don't force poems prematurely around a phrase. However, when you have three-four of them, seemingly unrelated, which have popped up in your mind on independent occasions, the odds are that they can be put together into a single poem with very little of adding and editing.

 

[wildsweetone]

Senna Jawa, take good care of yourself. I want you to finish this.

I'll wait until you're done before I ask you questions.

 

[Senna Jawa]

1c. What to study?

Studying poetry may have different goals. Then by all means, study whatever you get your hands on. But if you aim at being a strong poet then study:

1. Chinese poetry
2. Chinese poetry
3. Chinese poetry

Read the poems, read what critics have to say; see hard references.

The relation of the Oriental poetry, including western Haiku to the Western poetry, is similar to the relation of jazz to the classical music, except that in the case of poetry the general advantage is tilted in favor of the oriental poetry more:

on the highest level the major artistic differences disappear. On the lower, popular level, the advantage belongs to jazz and to the oriental poetry, because their ear is active, they hear what they play, hence the continuous feedback.

The same in general goes for the critics. Those who specialize in the oriental poetry (while themselves the critics may be Occidental) they write about poetry, they have a better ear for poetry. Those critics who specialize in the western poetry tend to write about the social literary scene, and about all kind of things which are NOT going to teach you anything about the art of poetry.

Let me stress that these are just my general observations, and I myself know plenty of exceptions in every and each direction. However, if you want to help your poetry then don't worry about exceptions, just take advantage of what I have written.

Senna Jawa
​

 

[Liar]

The same in general goes for the critics. Those who specialize in the oriental poetry (while themselves the critics may be Occidental) they write about poetry, they have a better ear for poetry. Those critics who specialize in the western poetry tend to write about the social literary scene, and about all kind of things which are NOT going to teach you anything about the art of poetry.

Interresting. I haven't thought of it before, but I see this alot. It seems to me that Western critics of all kinds of art does that to some extent, focus on the artwork's place in society and culture, more than on the content of the artwork itself. Sounds a bit neo-Aristotelian to me, an attitude that broadens the understanding of art on a general discourse level, but dulls it on a specific level, where the actual artwork is.

If this is in contrast with how oriental poetry is viewed, I don't know, since I have barely scratched the surface of that scene. I read and enjoy the poetry, but haven't really studied it or writings about it. That's on my to-do list.

 

[champagne1982]

At the risk of always being contrary, I don't like Oriental Poetry. Speaking broadly, I find this style is not musical nor rhythmic although, granted, most Oriental poems written are rich in imagery and symbolism. That doesn't mean they are to my taste.

I guess I'm doomed to be a bad poet.

Spankings for a naughty girl, please.

 

[Liar]

At the risk of always being contrary, I don't like Oriental Poetry. Speaking broadly, I find this style is not musical nor rhythmic although, granted, most Oriental poems written are rich in imagery and symbolism. That doesn't mean they are to my taste.

I guess I'm doomed to be a bad poet.

Spankings for a naughty girl, please.

Where did I put that paddle...?

Anyway, the lack of musicality and rhythm, could it be because we don't read it in the language it was written in?

I don't know any other languages than my own and my amateur English, and even there, translating a poem and maintining the flow is very hard. And those two languages are quite similar.

 

[Sex and Death]

At the risk of always being contrary, I don't like Oriental Poetry. Speaking broadly, I find this style is not musical nor rhythmic although, granted, most Oriental poems written are rich in imagery and symbolism. That doesn't mean they are to my taste.

I guess I'm doomed to be a bad poet.

Spankings for a naughty girl, please.

one hand slapping, sir?
the girl of naught whimpered - smack! -
she sat on piled silk

 

[Sex and Death]

Do not write poetry. Live poetically. I see.

Hi WildSweetOne,

Here are the related topics and subtopics:

1. What to do to yourself?
   • How to live?
   • Directly poetry writing related issues.
   • What to study?
2. What do you do to the poem?
   • What to write?
   • How to write?

As you see from this plan, I really need to go back to the development of my site. But let me at least write a few things. The initial theme of this topic belongs to point 1b.

1a How to live?

-- Be outdoors alot. Look far away. Look nearby. Listen. Stick your nose into most everything, touch and smell and taste. Learn the words, so that you can name everything around, and everything that you experience.

-- Have a small notebook and a pencil in your purse (or pocket) all the time, everywhere (so that you're always ready to jot the ideas, phrases, even the whole poems or drafts).

--Listen to the music alot. Day in and day out.

--Travel; pay attention both to the people and to the Nature (including architecture, vehicles, ...); record in your notebook the colloquial phrases which people use, and the scraps of conversations.

To be continued.

 

[wildsweetone]

At the risk of always being contrary, I don't like Oriental Poetry. Speaking broadly, I find this style is not musical nor rhythmic although, granted, most Oriental poems written are rich in imagery and symbolism. That doesn't mean they are to my taste.

I guess I'm doomed to be a bad poet.

Spankings for a naughty girl, please.

hi Oh Contrary One,

i think the oriental poems i've been reading are more 'sparse' than our western preferences are used to. i think it takes an effort to click into the oriental poetry because it involves a different part of the brain to understand and connect the pieces.

the difference is like reading a book and watching tv. our western poetry is the tv and oriental poetry is the book - our minds are more involved in working out what the book (or oriental poem) contains. the simplicity in oriental poetry is deceiving but one needs the patience and the ability to be able to understand the poem. in my opinion, it's worth the effort.

makes perfect sense to me, but probably not to anyone else. hmm