Therapy to change 'feminine' boy created a troubled man, family says

Wolfman1982

people are hard to please
Joined
May 26, 2005
Posts
2,178
reddits title was much better in my mind

The Federal Government funded a study where feminine boys were beaten in an effort to change their behavior

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/06/07/sissy.boy.experiment/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

By Scott Bronstein and Jessi Joseph, CNN
June 9, 2011 -- Updated 1532 GMT (2332 HKT)

Editor's note: Tonight at 10 ET on CNN TV, "AC360º" examines a shocking "experimental therapy" designed to make feminine boys more masculine. See what one family says was the devastating result in a special report, "The Sissy Boy Experiment."

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Kirk Andrew Murphy seemed to have everything to live for.

He put himself through school. He had a successful 8-year career in the Air Force. After the service, he landed a high profile position with an American finance company in India.

But in 2003 at age 38, Kirk Murphy took his own life.

A co-worker found him hanging from the fan of his apartment in New Delhi. His family has struggled for years to understand what happened.

"I used to spend so much time thinking, why would he kill himself at the age of 38? It doesn't make any sense to me," said Kirk's sister, Maris Murphy. "What I now think is I don't know how he made it that long."

After Kirk's death, Maris started a search that would uncover a dark family secret. That secret revealed itself during a phone conversation with her older brother Mark, who mentioned his distrust of any kind of therapy.

"Don't you remember all that crap we went through at UCLA?" he asked her. Maris was too young to remember the details, but Mark remembered it vividly as a low point in their lives.

IReport: Did you participate in similar research?

Wanting a 'normal life'

Kirk Murphy was a bright 5-year-old boy, growing up near Los Angeles in the 1970s. He was the middle child, with big brother Mark, 8, and little sister Maris, just a baby at 9 months. Their mother, Kaytee Murphy, remembers Kirk's kind nature, "He was just very intelligent, and a sweet, sweet, child." But she was also worried.

"Well, I was becoming a little concerned, I guess, when he was playing with dolls and stuff," she said. "Playing with the girls' toys, and probably picking up little effeminate, well, like stroking the hair, the long hair and stuff. It just bothered me that maybe he was picking up maybe too many feminine traits." She said it bothered her because she wanted Kirk to grow up and have "a normal life."

Then Kaytee Murphy saw a psychologist on local television.

"He was naming all of these things; 'If your son is doing five of these 10 things, does he prefer to play with girls' toys instead of boys' toys?' Just things like this," she said.

The doctor was on TV that day, recruiting boys for a government-funded program at the University of California, Los Angeles.

"Well, him being the expert, I thought, maybe I should take Kirk in," said Kaytee Murphy. "In other words, nip it in the bud, before it got started any further."

Kirk becomes 'Kraig'

Kaytee Murphy took Kirk to UCLA, where he was treated largely by George A. Rekers, a doctoral student at the time.

In Rekers' study documenting his experimental therapy (PDF), he writes about a boy he calls "Kraig." Another UCLA gender researcher confirmed that "Kraig" was a pseudonym for Kirk.

The study, later published in an academic journal, concludes that after therapy, "Kraig's" feminine behavior was gone and he became "indistinguishable from any other boy."

"Kraig, I think, certainly was Rekers' poster boy for what Rekers was espousing for young children," said Jim Burroway, a writer and researcher who has studied Rekers' work.

"We have been wondering where is Kraig? A lot of us have talked about it. Where is he today? Is he married or is he gay? Or specifically does he even know that Rekers has been writing about him?" said Burroway. "I found 17 different articles, books, chapters, that he has written in which he talked about Kraig."

iReport: 'Sissy Boy Experiment' triggers 'disturbing' memory

Rekers' work with Kirk Murphy helped him build a three-decade career as a leading national expert in trying to prevent children from becoming gay, a career as an anti-gay champion that would later be tainted by his involvement in an embarrassing scandal.

The experiments

The therapy at UCLA involved a special room with two tables where "Kraig's" behavior was monitored, according to the study.

"There was a one-way mirror or one-way window -- and some days they would let him choose which table he would go to," said Maris, who has read about the experiments.

At one table Kirk could choose between what were considered masculine toys like plastic guns and handcuffs, and what were meant to be feminine toys like dolls and a play crib. At the other table, Kirk could choose between boys' clothing and a toy electric razor or items like dress-up jewelry and a wig.

See details about the experimental therapy

According to the case study, Kaytee Murphy was told to ignore her son when he played with feminine toys and compliment him when he played with masculine toys.

"They pretty much told him he wasn't right the way that he was, but they never really explained it to him what the issue was. They did it through play," Maris said.

See more about Kaytee Murphy's decision to enroll Kirk

Rekers wrote that Kirk would cry out for attention, even throwing tantrums, but Kaytee Murphy was told to keep going.

Harsh beatings

At home, the punishment for feminine behavior would become more severe. The therapists instructed Kirk's parents to use poker chips as a system of rewards and punishments.

According to Rekers' case study, blue chips were given for masculine behavior and would bring rewards, such as candy. But the red chips, given for effeminate behavior, resulted in "physical punishment by spanking from the father."

Mark said he was told to participate in the chip reward-and-punishment system as a way to make Kirk feel like the system was OK.

The family said the spankings were severe. Maris remembers "lots of belt incidents." She escaped the screaming by going to her bed to "lay in the room with my pillow on my head." Later, she would go to Kirk's bedroom and "lay down and hug him and we would just lay there, and the thing that I remember is that he never even showed anger. He was just numb."

During one particularly harsh punishment, their mother recalls, her husband "spanked" Kirk "so hard that he had welts up and down his back and on his buttocks."

She remembers her son Mark saying, "Cry harder, and he won't hit so hard." She says, "Today, it would be abuse."

Sometimes Mark would try to protect his brother, to make his beatings less severe.

"I took some of the red chips and I put them on my side," said Mark, as tears came to his eyes. But he said the beatings were still frequent.

The number of stacked red chips became a telltale sign about the level of tension in the house. When he returned home each day, Mark often looked for the chips in their easily visible location between the living room and the kitchen.

"You looked and were like, 'What's the chip count today? What happened? What changed? How bad is it going to be?' And it was always bad. There was whipping every Friday night. There was no way out of it."

Kirk's formal clinical treatment lasted 10 months, but the family said some of the treatment techniques and practices lasted longer at home.

'Different from everybody else'

Mark Murphy vividly remembers a photo of a smiling young Kirk, age 4, taken a year before the therapy started.

"This is my brother, Kirk Andrew Murphy, right here," Mark said, pointing to the picture. "This is the way he's supposed to be right here," Mark said tearfully.

Mark said the photo shows the last time he remembers his brother as a happy child.

Maris, who was too young to remember Kirk when he went to therapy, said she only knew Kirk after his treatment.

"It left Kirk just totally stricken with the belief that he was broken, that he was different from everybody else," she recalled. "He even ate his lunch in the boy's bathroom for three years of his high school career, if you want to call it that."

CDC: Lack of acceptance can lead to risky behavior for non-straight youth

Kirk's mother said she believes the experimental therapy destroyed Kirk's life.

"I blame them for the way his life turned out," she said. "If one person causes another person's death, I don't care if it's 20 or 50 years later, it's the same as murder in my eyes."

Of course, the actual reason someone commits suicide is difficult, if not impossible to know. The family's allegations that Rekers' therapy caused Kirk Murphy to take his life are just that -- allegations.

When Rekers did not respond to CNN's repeated requests for an interview, CNN producers tracked him down in Florida to ask about the Murphy family's allegations.

"Well, I think, scientifically that would be inaccurate to assume that it was the therapy, but I do grieve for the parents now that you've told me that news. I think that's very sad," he said.

Rekers pointed out that the therapy had been decades earlier.

"That's a long time ago, and to hypothesize, you have a hypothesis that positive treatment back in the 1970s has something to do with something happening decades later. That would, that hypothesis would need a lot of scientific investigation to see if it's valid. Two independent psychologists with me had evaluated him and said he was better adjusted after treatment, so it wasn't my opinion." he said.

One of those psychologists has since died. The other -- Dr. Larry Ferguson -- told CNN that he did evaluate Kirk Murphy as a teenager. He said the family was well adjusted and he did not see any "red flags" when evaluating Kirk. But Maris Murphy says Kirk lied to those examining him. "He was conditioned to say what they wanted to hear," she said.

Rekers said he could not give specific details about Kirk Murphy's treatment, citing doctor-patient confidentiality. For him, the bottom line is that the therapy was intended to help.

"I only meant to help, do the best I could with the parents, and I've written articles you can look up, too, on the rationale for our treatment. And the rationale was positive; to help children, help the parents who come to us in their distress asking questions, 'What can we do to help our child be better adjusted?' " Rekers said.

Watch Rekers respond to news of Murphy's suicide


Karl Bryant, a professor of women's and gender studies at the State University of New York at New Paltz, was also taken to UCLA as a child, as a part of a different study of effeminate boys.

Bryant said he thinks the more tragic part of Kirk's story is people "trying to do something good, trying to help ... even in a misguided mode, who end up producing these negative outcomes for people."

Bryant has studied the history of work done with children with opposite-sex behavior extensively, and said the studies are complex.

"I never have -- had tried to kill myself or thought that I was going to kill myself," said Bryant. "But I could identify with that pain of -- of feeling like you want to be something and other people want you to be something that you aren't."

'Unwanted homosexuality'

Rekers, who conducted the therapy on Kirk, went on to build a career of influence based on the premise from his research that homosexuality can be prevented.

He became a founding member of the Family Research Council, a faith-based organization that lobbies against gay-rights issues. Rekers was also on the board of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, an organization of scientists that says its mission is to offer treatment to those who struggle with what they call "unwanted homosexuality."

"He's viewed as an expert by some, you know, when it's -- when it serves their purposes," said Bryant. "So, you know, basically, conservative and what I would call mostly 'fringe' groups have really, you know, Rekers as their poster boy."

Just last year, Rekers' days as an anti-gay champion would come to an end.

He hired a male escort to accompany him on his trip to Europe.

Rekers denies any sexual contact with the male escort. Rekers says he's not gay. He claims he wasn't aware that his companion offered sexual favors for sale over the Internet until after the trip, and says he hired him only to carry his bags. But the reporters who broke the story about Rekers' trip say they saw Rekers pushing a luggage cart through a Miami airport, where they took his photo.

After the scandal broke, Rekers resigned from NARTH. And the Family Research Council said in a statement they hadn't had contact with Rekers in "over a decade."

Reporters find tragic story amid embarrassing scandal


His reputation among those who oppose homosexuality may be tarnished, but his research is still being cited in books and journals.

As recently as 2009, a book Rekers co-authored, "Handbook of Therapy for Unwanted Homosexual Attractions," cites Kraig's case as a success. That was six years after Kirk Murphy took his own life.

For Maris Murphy, there is more to the story than what was written in case studies about her brother.

"The research has a postscript that needs to be added," she said. "That is that Kirk Andrew Murphy was Kraig and he was gay, and he committed suicide."

"I want people to remember that this was a little boy who deserved protection, respect and unconditional love," his sister said. "I don't want him to be remembered as a science experiment. He was a person."
 
Damn, I think reddit for once got their shit wrong. Cause it seems to me ultimately it was the mothers fault, even though it was a state funded project. Damn that mother was mentally stupid in this case. But the case and project was still pretty fucked up, to say at least.
 
But not the father's fault, huh, who was belting the kid? Or the experts, who promised the parents this was the right thing to do?

You single out the mother.

And you wonder why so many people call you a really stupid asshole.
 
But not the father's fault, huh, who was belting the kid? Or the experts, who promised the parents this was the right thing to do?

You single out the mother.

And you wonder why so many people call you a really stupid asshole.

Sorry I overlooked by accident (honest mistake) , that it was the father who spanked and belted him. But it does not make it better. And Stella_Omega, you call yourself a FtM transgender (or something , please correct me, if I am wrong there ). But your behaviour and attitude is definitely not very manly. It is more like an adolescent bratty boy. So it is no wonder your last custom user title was "not a gentleman". So keep the comments about me, on a minimum please.
 
Last edited:
Sorry I overlooked by accident (honest mistake) , that it was the father who spanked and belted him. But it does not make it better. And Stella_Omega, you call yourself a FtM transgender (or something , please correct me, if I am wrong there ). But your behaviour and attitude is definitely not very manly. It is more like an adolescent bratty boy. So it is no wonder your last custom user title was "not a gentleman". So keep the comments about me, on a minimum please.

You spout you usual misogynistic bullshit and when a woman calls you on it you start questioning her maturity and HER behavior? SERIOUSLY???

I personally think she showed great restraint by merely calling your serially, woman hating butt, asshole. You deserve much worse.

I'm not even going to go into your absolutely fuck up comments about her "attitude" not being fucking
sufficiently "manly" to suit your as other than to ask why the fuck you consider being "manly" to be so superior and to point a big ol spot light on you misogamy.
 
Last edited:
Sorry I overlooked by accident (honest mistake) , that it was the father who spanked and belted him. But it does not make it better. And Stella_Omega, you call yourself a FtM transgender (or something , please correct me, if I am wrong there ). But your behaviour and attitude is definitely not very manly. It is more like an adolescent bratty boy. So it is no wonder your last custom user title was "not a gentleman". So keep the comments about me, on a minimum please.
Believe me I keep the comments about you to a minimum-- I don't comment about most of the shit you spew.
 
Safe_Bet : my my such a nitpicker you are and the same goes to your follower. I honestly overlooked that it was the father who spanked and belted the poor kid. But what if it had been Etoile who overlooked that part ? would you then have gone after her by making a honest mistake ? I actually doubt it. And the whole case, I have been posting has gotten me speechless . Perhaps we should begin discussing the case, and not me.
 
Last edited:
Don't bring me into this, please.

Actually, you are a great moderator. So it is an absolute pleasure when I am bringing "you" into it. Since you are a voice of reason, and can point out. That even though I am so-called an asshole, then even assholes can make honest mistakes.
 
Actually, you are a great moderator. So it is an absolute pleasure when I am bringing "you" into it. Since you are a voice of reason, and can point out. That even though I am so-called an asshole, then even assholes can make honest mistakes.

I have no interest in getting involved in this dispute, and please do not use me as an example to prove a point. That's just disrespectful.
 
I have no interest in getting involved in this dispute, and please do not use me as an example to prove a point. That's just disrespectful.

Sorry about that, but the so-called asshole was me. I was thinking off, cause anything else was meant in extremely positive manners. And no, I have not put you on a pedestal. Cause that was not my intention.
 
I think despite all the arguments this is an interesting topic! The parents were clearly most to blame... They didnt want to accept their son so they blindly handed out the prescribed punishment sustem to change him. The mother in my opinion was especially stupid for feeling that at 4 years old he needed to go in the first place!
 
I think despite all the arguments this is an interesting topic! The parents were clearly most to blame... They didnt want to accept their son so they blindly handed out the prescribed punishment sustem to change him. The mother in my opinion was especially stupid for feeling that at 4 years old he needed to go in the first place!

And that I agree with, the mother was fucking stupid, how the hell can some parents do such a thing to their kids ? I mean seriously, if you ask me. Then what the poor son went through is the example about how bad the parents were in parenting. I mean, it is just shocking. And typical that some shit like that happens.
 
This reminds me of the John/Joan case, David Reimer's life story. As an infant, his circumcision was botched, and his penis was destroyed. His parents didn't really know what to do, and when doctors ("experts") told them to raise him as a girl, they accepted it. His case was also used in research, because his twin brother was raised as a boy while David was raised as a girl. He was miserable as his parents tried to get him to play with dolls, etc. to be like a girl. They didn't beat him but it was still a very troubling situation. He found out as a teenager what had happened, and he went back to being male. He tried to get married (couldn't have kids of course) but they were unhappy together. He was basically depressed his entire life, and he too committed suicide.

Very few people blame the parents in Reimer's situation. They were only moderately educated people, and in 1960s Manitoba you just trusted what the experts told you to do. The poor kid was dragged to "therapy" in Baltimore periodically, and the researchers wanted to give him further surgery to make his genitals more female, but he refused. But everybody blames the researchers, not the parents.

Quite frankly I feel the same way about this case. It was the 1970s, the parents didn't really know what to do, and they trusted the doctors. Let's remember that boys just didn't play with dolls back then. William Wants a Doll from Free to Be You and Me was from the same period. I'm sure Kirk's parents said "um, isn't it weird that our son plays with dolls? we don't think that's normal." And the doctors told them what to do. And they did it.

No, I don't fault the parents at all. It's normal to trust the experts. And if the experts tell you that physical punishment is needed, you'll do it. Because they're the experts! It's unfortunate, but that's the way of it, at least back then.
 
Etoile: I know the case you are mentioning quite a lot, hell I even remember PredatorSmile going after me in a PM(strangely enough we became friends not a lot later on). But I knew the case even before that since I had seen The Oprah show about the case, then some years later on, then I saw the documentary about the bastard of a doctor who was to blame in this particular case. But whether I am going to unpopular about it, I blame the parents whether people like it or not(in this case). But I have already mentioned (in older threads) what my country did in the name of a "cure" for homosexuality. And what atrocities those things were. But I am not trying to hide what the Danish government did back then, hell let us just say that in my family it has come VERY close to a person in my family went through some of those atrocities, even though the person is not gay.
 
And that I agree with, the mother was fucking stupid, how the hell can some parents do such a thing to their kids ? I mean seriously, if you ask me. Then what the poor son went through is the example about how bad the parents were in parenting. I mean, it is just shocking. And typical that some shit like that happens.

I think that it was probably much harder in those days. Unfortunately though even now many parents struggle to understand. Even now my Dad is very against anyone being gay or lesbian. Luckily for me I'm bisexual and actually prefer men. But I think what you say is right in that there was a 'typical' way to react in the past.

Quite frankly I feel the same way about this case. It was the 1970s, the parents didn't really know what to do, and they trusted the doctors. Let's remember that boys just didn't play with dolls back then. William Wants a Doll from Free to Be You and Me was from the same period. I'm sure Kirk's parents said "um, isn't it weird that our son plays with dolls? we don't think that's normal." And the doctors told them what to do. And they did it.

No, I don't fault the parents at all. It's normal to trust the experts. And if the experts tell you that physical punishment is needed, you'll do it. Because they're the experts! It's unfortunate, but that's the way of it, at least back then.

I think the big difference is that the J/J case was a medical accident and the parents somewhat foolishly (yet understandably in those times) took the expert advice.

The other family decided their son was too feminine at 4 years old and sought out help to change him!
 
The year was 1956, my father was 11. My father is dyslexic. And back then some people saw dyslexic people as some kind of retarded people, unless the people came from very intelligent and powerful families, such as the Bohr family(and so forth). But if it had not been for a female teacher, and the priest who was close friend of my grandparents. Then my father would have gone to one of those institutions, where they either gave the (inmates) highly addictive anti psychotic drugs, or they either physically or medically castrated them (racial gene cleansing 101), or just plain old either physically , mentally or emotionally abuse BIG time. There is a lawsuit coming up about one of those "homes" right now. Cause the current social minister will NOT apologise for the atrocities that happened back then on that "home".
Why do I mention my father in this post ? cause I asked him, and he gave me permission to tell who the "person" is. So that is why these situations, affects me too much, cause it hits fucking CLOSE to home. I do not know when Denmark stopped trying to make racial cleansing or stopped trying to "cure" homosexual people. But at least you know that at least 11 years after WWII Denmark still did some seriously fucked up atrocities.
 
Last edited:
Ah well, that explains why you won't take your own meds.

It's understandable. But the newer drugs aren't abusive, you would be happier and more capable on them, and your nuttiness is hard on the people around you.
 
I have a different take on this story. I'm somewhat concerned about the stereotypes that the media is spinning on this story.

Yes there are plenty of effeminate males that deep down inside are homosexuals. However, are 100% of effeminate males gay, and our 100% of masculine males straight? I don't think so. Note that I do not condone punishment for something as insignificant as playing with the wrong toys.



As to masculine/feminine, in my own relationship, I am the top partner (I'm talking about top in anal sex -- not in bdsm) in the bedroom, but do not mistake that for my partner being some effeminate male. In fact if there were some scale of traditional male roles, he woud score much higher than me. Now growing up I did prefer dolls over playing with tinker toys or erector sets. However, I also liked sports -- well maybe not football. I wasn't a big fan of football -- especially since I wasn't into contact sports and I didn't know the rules. I was also picked on because I had longer hair in rural America in the 60's. It wasn't because my family was part of the hippy movement. Rather, it was to cover up a birth defect. I was NOT abused by my family for my behavior. (Mabye something could be said about my dad from 11-14.5 when he had me, but he would have been mean regardless.) However, my peers were VERY cruel. Only my grandma would stand up to the teachers and administration.


In junior college I was big into music, English, and drama. The college had a gay dama teacher. I saw everything I despised about the sterotype gay effeminate male. He was emotional about fluff, but cold and uncaring in substantial situations. He was catty. Though I felt sorry how some would call him fag, he was a manipulative back stabber. While I continued on with my music after junior college, I dropped drama all together because I could not stand to be around that kind of behavior.

I miss that artsy side of myself and how I had to narrow it down to my music. However, I am glad I didn't end up like him. This isn't about loving the same sex vs opposite sex, but how you conduct yourself. For instance, I'm tall and I'm strong. It isn't something to be proud of nor ashamed, it is just my genes. One should always use their talents if asked to do so.

So for instance if an individual has a flat tire, you should ask if they need help. You shouldn't think: "Well I'm not that mascline or good with tools, so I won't even ask." That is BS. Even someone more masculine than you on some scale (regardless of male/female or str8/gay) can appreciate a helping hand even if it nothing more than watching traffic for them.

I've seen way too many effeminate men use their conduct as an excuse not to help out when needed. I also think that there comes a time that you get tired of being a push over, and push back yourself. In a certain way I'm glad that I was exposed to just how cruel other humans can be when I was a child. It toughened me up. I may not enjoy hunting, spectator sports, boxing, martial arts, cars, etc, but I am not some kind of rooster-ette that deserves less respect than other males. I guess in some ways, I'm just frustrated with the whole segmentation. People use the masculine vs femine scale to define what they should or shouldn't be expected to do. One should always be willing to do whatever to help their fillow human being.
 
Good points, none2 :rose: You won't be surprised to hear that I, as well, am pretty sick and tired of people categorising weak, catty, backstabbing behavior as "feminine."

What might this poor kid have been had he been left alone? A loving person with a strong instinct to cherish others was ruined.
 
Looking back, I think I was a "quite" feminine boy. Which made it a bit rough when my friends hit puberty and all turned into smoking drunken pigs, but I was quite content to sit it out and leave them be for three years or so until most kids graduated (or had to repeat 10th grade) and I continued with the following best three years of my school life. Except for that, I never experienced any discrimination because of that. Friends and family have always been completely approving when I came out as bisexual and androgynous and I had never had anyone saying something negative about it to my face (or behind my back, to my knowledge).

Which makes me wonder how difficult it really is in general to be outside the gender norms. Some people have it really rough, but people who experience no problems never have any reason to report about it.
 
Looking back, I think I was a "quite" feminine boy. Which made it a bit rough when my friends hit puberty and all turned into smoking drunken pigs, but I was quite content to sit it out and leave them be for three years or so until most kids graduated (or had to repeat 10th grade) and I continued with the following best three years of my school life. Except for that, I never experienced any discrimination because of that. Friends and family have always been completely approving when I came out as bisexual and androgynous and I had never had anyone saying something negative about it to my face (or behind my back, to my knowledge).

Which makes me wonder how difficult it really is in general to be outside the gender norms. Some people have it really rough, but people who experience no problems never have any reason to report about it.
They do have a reason-- if they want to join the discussion:

http://www.itgetsbetter.org/

I think that a public (pseudonymous if necessary) pledge of support is a good reason to talk about how you had an easier tiome of it-- promise to pass that on as best you can.
 
The time periods have a helluva lot to do with the parents' actions in these cases, from so many angles. How long has it been since people really started to recognize the difference between gender and sexuality? Ummmm......most still DON'T! It's not been that long ago that the concept of being "born homosexual" was not widely accepted; at least not where I'm from. People whose genitals don't match their programming have a tough go at it, regardless of their sexual preference. I was always mad at myself as a kid for wanting to do feminine things.....I covered it up and just excelled at other things to (prove to myself I was "manly")????? I dunno how I would've turned out if I'd been born in 2010 instead of 1975; as information ( granted, the accuracy varies wildly) is so widely available now. Gender confusion is something I'd kept tucked away (except when I was home alone for a day or more) until a couple years ago. Access to information tore the door off the hinges for me......information that was impossible to come by a couple decades ago.
 
Back
Top