Theoretical Constitution for Utopia

[cantdog]

Justice. Now there's a real ghost. No one seems to have any idea what it consists of. Most people seem to mean "institutionalized revenge" when they use the word.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

It would be so much easier if you just forgot the constitution and made me GOD.

 

[rgraham666]

It would be so much easier if you just forgot the constitution and made me GOD.

Can't. I'm an agnostic.

 

[CharleyH]

There's really nothing wrong with the Constitution of the U.S. The problem lies with the government adhering to it.

ROFLOL. First, lets talk the right to bear arms and how totally inapplicable and misinterpreted it is today.

 

[Dar~]

Read the Republic of Plato. It is fascinating. I am not lal the way done with it, but what I have read is very good. Socrates and a bunch of old white rich guys in greeco/roman times are sitting around talking about utopia. They create a fictitious city and discuss what would make it perfect and how it the laws of the land would be. Ulitimately, all utopian societies will fail, b/c of human falacy. another good read is The Giver by Lois Lowry also A Brave New World. A lot of movies deal with the same concepts. Aeon Flux (yes, I realize also a comic), The Village, I Robot, and Gataca.

All utopian societies will fall. Look at the Soviet Union. Communism is great on paper. It is Utpoia; however, it will never work because of the human factor. Greed, arrogance, and dishonesty will always corrupt even the purest attempts.

 

[CharleyH]

Justice. Now there's a real ghost. No one seems to have any idea what it consists of. Most people seem to mean "institutionalized revenge" when they use the word.

I am interested in your interpretation of justice if you care to discuss your perspective, Cant.

 

[rgraham666]

Read the Republic of Plato. It is fascinating. I am not lal the way done with it, but what I have read is very good. Socrates and a bunch of old white rich guys in greeco/roman times are sitting around talking about utopia. They create a fictitious city and discuss what would make it perfect and how it the laws of the land would be. Ulitimately, all utopian societies will fail, b/c of human falacy. another good read is The Giver by Lois Lowry also A Brave New World. A lot of movies deal with the same concepts. Aeon Flux (yes, I realize also a comic), The Village, I Robot, and Gataca.

All utopian societies will fall. Look at the Soviet Union. Communism is great on paper. It is Utpoia; however, it will never work because of the human factor. Greed, arrogance, and dishonesty will always corrupt even the purest attempts.

I hated The Republic. Because it's not a republic, it's a corporatist dictatorship.

And the Socrates of The Republic was not the Socrates of The Dialogs. The former was a literary character created by Plato to add intellectual gravitas to his aristocratic babbling.

Sorry. Rant of the day.

 

[yevkassem72]

Justice. Now there's a real ghost. No one seems to have any idea what it consists of. Most people seem to mean "institutionalized revenge" when they use the word.

For me, it means a meritocracy, but that's just me. I'm firm meritocratic in my ideals.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I don't know about utopia, but this does inspire me to write up a sample constitution and publish it, just to see if any country wants to adopt it.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Read the Republic of Plato. It is fascinating. I am not lal the way done with it, but what I have read is very good. Socrates and a bunch of old white rich guys in greeco/roman times are sitting around talking about utopia. They create a fictitious city and discuss what would make it perfect and how it the laws of the land would be. Ulitimately, all utopian societies will fail, b/c of human falacy. another good read is The Giver by Lois Lowry also A Brave New World. A lot of movies deal with the same concepts. Aeon Flux (yes, I realize also a comic), The Village, I Robot, and Gataca.

All utopian societies will fall. Look at the Soviet Union. Communism is great on paper. It is Utpoia; however, it will never work because of the human factor. Greed, arrogance, and dishonesty will always corrupt even the purest attempts.

I like Aristotle's emphasis on practical wisdom and balance. His "polity" is a good model, in which if the middle class is not a majority, it at least holds the balance of power between the rich and poor, who each have vices that make good government unobtainable if they are in control. "(Societies)consisting of slaves and masters, not free men create a condition of affairs very far removed from friendliness, and from political partnership" (that is the basis of the best of and most lasting form of government.)

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

It would be so much easier if you just forgot the constitution and made me GOD.

Oh, what the hell: OK.

Russian peasant proverb: "Best government: Good czar. Worst government: Bad czar. More bad czars than good czars."

Jenny would almost certainly be a good czar. But her daughter would be a holy terror.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

I don't know about utopia, but this does inspire me to write up a sample constitution and publish it, just to see if any country wants to adopt it.

You could do worse than to read the Federalist Papers before you start. Probably half of them at least are just as relevent today as ever. They are really quite remarkable - wise, virtuous and knowledgeable men thinking really hard about what is required to create a stable and prosperous nation that gives each citizen maximum opportunity to discover and live the good life.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

You could do worse than to read the Federalist Papers before you start. Probably half of them at least are just as relevent today as ever. They are really quite remarkable - wise, virtuous and knowledgeable men thinking really hard about what is required to create a stable and prosperous nation that gives each citizen maximum opportunity to discover and live the good life.

As an admirer of the Framers, I actually own a copy of the Federalist Papers, which give me a great insight as to why they did this and that, what they thought of the role of government, and what kind of men they really were. I am more than impressed (and I already was impressed with them as it was). It certainly raised my respect for Hamilton, in particular. Madison already had a high estimate in my mind.

There is not much better that could be done for this country.

It's other countries that I wonder about. I'd want a Constitution that could work for them.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Well, I would propose this Amendment for raison d'tat.

Proposed Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, to wit,

1.. Congress shall not endeavor to expand its powers, or those of the Federal Government in general, by means of legislating acts beyond its jurisdiction and usurping the powers of the States and the People of the United States. Neither shall the President, Vice President, Cabinet, or Supreme Court endeavor by any means to expand the powers of the Federal Government of the United States beyond its jurisdiction under the Constitution of the selfsame United States. Congress may only seek such an expansion by means of a valid and proper Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

2. All powers presently exercised by the Federal Government in contravention of the Tenth Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States shall henceforth be deemed legal and constitutional, including the power to enact laws for internal improvements, environmental protection, old-age pensions, sickness insurance for the aged and disabled, labor-management relations, freedom from discriminatory denial of public services, paper money, and enforcement of the first Ten Articles of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

3. Congress shall have the power to enforce this Amendment by appropriate legislation.