Then you're not legitimately in office.

[jaF0]

"However, the ceremony brought some controversy after City Councilor Tania Fernandes Anderson, a Democrat, appeared to not recite her oath of office with the other councilors, all of whom were seen saying their oaths. Video on social media appeared to show her remaining silent and not raising her right hand during the ceremony. After the ceremony, she was seen celebrating, clapping and hugging her fellow councilors, according to video livestreamed by the council."

" wrote: "If she chose not to take the oath of office, that should be tantamount to forfeiting the office. Until she takes the oath, she's councilor-elect. She can start voting on matters when she actually becomes a councilor.""

https://www.newsweek.com/muslim-city-council-member-rejects-oath-office-during-swearing-1857958






Oaths of Office are largely procedural. Whether or not you personally agree with the words, the obligation to take it is clear. I agree fully with the user comment. She should not be allowed to vote or otherwise participate in official proceedings.

 

[HisArpy]

The oath isn't just something to say. It's a formal pledge and a requirement which must be fulfilled prior to being installed in the office the person is elected to.

I agree that until she recites the oath, she is still only councilor elect and has no authority to act. She shouldn't even be seated at the table.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

"However, the ceremony brought some controversy after City Councilor Tania Fernandes Anderson, a Democrat, appeared to not recite her oath of office with the other councilors, all of whom were seen saying their oaths. Video on social media appeared to show her remaining silent and not raising her right hand during the ceremony. After the ceremony, she was seen celebrating, clapping and hugging her fellow councilors, according to video livestreamed by the council."

" wrote: "If she chose not to take the oath of office, that should be tantamount to forfeiting the office. Until she takes the oath, she's councilor-elect. She can start voting on matters when she actually becomes a councilor.""

https://www.newsweek.com/muslim-city-council-member-rejects-oath-office-during-swearing-1857958






Oaths of Office are largely procedural. Whether or not you personally agree with the words, the obligation to take it is clear. I agree fully with the user comment. She should not be allowed to vote or otherwise participate in official proceedings.

It like refusing to say “I do” at the end of a wedding ceremony. If she disagrees with the oath, she need to explain why. Until then, she’s not a City Councilor.

 

[YDB95]

I agree she should have explained why beforehand, but I don't see this as a reason to block her from office.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I agree she should have explained why beforehand, but I don't see this as a reason to block her from office.

Its an oath of office that has legal aspects which tie into codes of conduct, conflict of interest, yada yada yada. So yes she has to affirm the oath. This affirmation can be done via signature, vs oral ( at least in Canada). Saying it out loud is ceremonial, but one way or the other, and this pains me to no end. I agree with HisArpy.

 

[Chernosoth]

That sounds like standing for the Pledge of Allegiance in school. Some things are just too silly to do. If she does the job she was elected to do, she's a councillor.

 

[Bray123]

I had to swear an oath once for my employment. It was a load of bollocks with elements that I absolutely disagreed with. So I kept quiet and nobody noticed.

As far as I know, I didn't breach that 'oath', certainly not as much as some of my colleagues that I knew of. But if I had been caught breaching it, I could have been prosecuted for that breach just as much as the loudest shouter waving the highest Bible.

It's fake outrage by the usual suspects.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I had to swear an oath once for my employment. It was a load of bollocks with elements that I absolutely disagreed with. So I kept quiet and nobody noticed.

As far as I know, I didn't breach that 'oath', certainly not as much as some of my colleagues that I knew of. But if I had been caught breaching it, I could have been prosecuted for that breach just as much as the loudest shouter waving the highest Bible.

It's fake outrage by the usual suspects.

I may be wrong, but I think this was for a Municipal council seat.

If it was, the Clerk will have entered into the minutes of the affirmation of the councillors taking the oath. It becomes an official record at the next meeting after approval of council. If the clerk didn't note it in the minutes, but it has been witnessed that the person didn't say the oath, this can be brought up at the next meeting. Note it can be brought up by a member of the public in attendance, it doesn't need to come from the table.

Under Roberts Rules of Order ( or most other rules of Order) the councillor who didn't affirm the oath, will then be asked to. If they refuse, the Chair will not be able to recognise the person and will ask them to vacate.If they refuse the chair will then need to have them removed.

If the removal of the person causes quorum to be lost at the meeting, then the meeting cannot proceed.

This oath carries the same weight as the Presidential, or Senator, or House member oaths.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I agree she should have explained why beforehand, but I don't see this as a reason to block her from office.

Would you also agree then that if the President Senator, House Rep, State Governor right on down the line didn't swear his/her Oath of office, that they can't be blocked from office?

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...1&cvid=9a55a13941d7428a85c6330526720633&ei=46

she was "ordered to retake the oath of office after footage showed her refusing to say the words or raise her right hand during a swearing in ceremony."

after keeping the clerk waiting, twice and not turning up, she was eventually made to take the oath both verbally and in writing by the City Council President and the city's law department

 

[HisArpy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...1&cvid=9a55a13941d7428a85c6330526720633&ei=46

she was "ordered to retake the oath of office after footage showed her refusing to say the words or raise her right hand during a swearing in ceremony."

after keeping the clerk waiting, twice and not turning up, she was eventually made to take the oath both verbally and in writing by the City Council President and the city's law department

The worst part is that she did it grudgingly. Which makes it no more authentic than an apology given under duress.

Her constituents also see this and know what's going on. Come time for her reelection, her actions here will be replayed by her opponent until even her most die hard supporter figures it out.

 

[YDB95]

Would you also agree then that if the President Senator, House Rep, State Governor right on down the line didn't swear his/her Oath of office, that they can't be blocked from office?

Yes. (And let's take a moment to think of all the many holders of that office who did take the oath, but did not live up to it at all.)

 

[Bray123]

https://imgur.com/W91bpEh

https://www.wbez.org/stories/trump-...lty-oath/1d1fbaf4-261f-4c15-b466-8fb749d404e1

 

[mrno]

Many years ago reading about the aftermath of Kennedy's assassination, a commentator, law expert, etc , said the Constitution states the VP becomes President when that office becomes vacant. Period. Taking the oath is more of a tradition than a legal requirement. It carries moral weight, but none legal.

Of course local elections are covered by local laws, but as a legal matter if a person is elected to office nothing else may be important.

Believe me, I have no idea how the Supreme Court would rule on this question.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Yes. (And let's take a moment to think of all the many holders of that office who did take the oath, but did not live up to it at all.)

Living up to the oath and out right violating it are two separate issues. I should also point out , if you don't take the oath, then you don't have to worry about living up to it or violating it.