The Winter War.

Chobham

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What is taking place in Ukraine is reminiscent of "The Winter War" of 1939. Russia (The Soviet Union then) decided to invade Finland. And while they ultimately prevailed they pretty much got their asses handed to them while doing so. The performance of the Russian military was so poor that the results factored heavily in Hitler's decision to invade Russia.

Russia has a long history of getting it's ass kicked when it has endeavored to invade other nations. The Russo-Japanese war is another example. Austerlitz is another piece of history the Russians would just as soon forget.

On the other hand invading Russia has proven the undoing of any army that has tried doing so going all the way back to the Mongols. Russia has shown itself more than willing to trade territory for time until the invaders logistic train is so long they can no longer supply their troops.

While I have no doubt that the Russians will ultimately prevail in Ukraine, at what cost will their victory be?
 
I'm wondering, assuming that the Russian military is underachieving and that's a surprise to Putin's people, if Putin and friends just didn't have the brains to realize that letting a corrupt business class skim a big slice off the top of military investment was going to result in degraded military capability.
 
What is taking place in Ukraine is reminiscent of "The Winter War" of 1939. Russia (The Soviet Union then) decided to invade Finland. And while they ultimately prevailed they pretty much got their asses handed to them while doing so. The performance of the Russian military was so poor that the results factored heavily in Hitler's decision to invade Russia.

Russia has a long history of getting it's ass kicked when it has endeavored to invade other nations. The Russo-Japanese war is another example. Austerlitz is another piece of history the Russians would just as soon forget.
What Russians remember, I expect, is the more recent instance when they invaded Eastern Europe and succeeded.
 
While I have no doubt that the Russians will ultimately prevail in Ukraine, at what cost will their victory be?
Two possibilities:

1. An Afghanistan situation, with an interminable guerilla insurgency.

2. The installation of a pro-Russian puppet regime the Ukrainians peacefully accept.

I can't see any third.
 
I'm wondering, assuming that the Russian military is underachieving and that's a surprise to Putin's people, if Putin and friends just didn't have the brains to realize that letting a corrupt business class skim a big slice off the top of military investment was going to result in degraded military capability.
Hmm. And here I thought it took feminized lesbigay PC wokeness to degrade the effectiveness of a fighting force.
 
What is taking place in Ukraine is reminiscent of "The Winter War" of 1939. Russia (The Soviet Union then) decided to invade Finland. And while they ultimately prevailed they pretty much got their asses handed to them while doing so. The performance of the Russian military was so poor that the results factored heavily in Hitler's decision to invade Russia.

Russia has a long history of getting it's ass kicked when it has endeavored to invade other nations. The Russo-Japanese war is another example. Austerlitz is another piece of history the Russians would just as soon forget.

On the other hand invading Russia has proven the undoing of any army that has tried doing so going all the way back to the Mongols. Russia has shown itself more than willing to trade territory for time until the invaders logistic train is so long they can no longer supply their troops.

While I have no doubt that the Russians will ultimately prevail in Ukraine, at what cost will their victory be?
We have a Finnish couple for friends. They're reliably liberal, leftwing, and peace-loving (they live in Sweden). Mention Russia and they turn into General Jack D. Ripper. They fucking hate the Russians and though they weren't alive for the various assaults that Russia made on their country, nevertheless trust the Rooskies about as far as they can throw their tanks.
 
IIRC, Finland had the rare distinction of fighting both sides in WWII.
 
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