The West Wing, Final Curtain...

[amicus]

"Not even Josiah Barlett gets a third term..." the announcement said this evening, the network will pull the plug on this popular series as Bartlett ends his second term.

The last program is apparently planned to air in early spring.

Certainly many who watched the program were curious about how it might continue, especially since one of the main characters played by John Spencer, recently died of a heart attack in real life.

I suppose it was time.


amicus....

 

[Pure]

maybe "commander in chief" and Geena R will fill the gap.

 

[silverwhisper]

is anybody watching commander in chief?

i'm sorry to see the west wing go. the writing quality dropped off a bit of late, i thought, but this season was stronger than it's been in a while.

ed

 

[Liar]

maybe "commander in chief" and Geena R will fill the gap.

If they could employ a decent screenwriter. The reason I enjoyed the first seasons of the West Wing was not because of the politics or the characters or the production. It was the writer in me that throughly enjoyed the snappy dialouge and clockwork tempo. C i C is at the same time more realistic (i.e boring) and more melodramatic.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Haven't seen "Commander-In-Chief", but I LOVE the West Wing! It's too bad they can't show life in the Vinick or Santos White House. It might breathe some new life and characters into the show.

 

[Recidiva]

I miss Aaron Sorkin and Josh Whedon.

Oddly enough both of them wrote about how lawyers all know Gilbert and Sullivan.

*sigh*

 

[amicus]

Some apparently like Commander in Chief, I watched two episodes but did not go back. Geena was fine in Earth Girls are Easy, and A Long Kiss Goodbye(? title), but to me she didn't carry the role as President and the writing is not nearly as crisp as West Wing.

But perhaps I just can't see a woman as POTUS...


amicus...

 

[Recidiva]

Some apparently like Commander in Chief, I watched two episodes but did not go back. Geena was fine in Earth Girls are Easy, and A Long Kiss Goodbye(? title), but to me she didn't carry the role as President and the writing is not nearly as crisp as West Wing.

But perhaps I just can't see a woman as POTUS...

amicus...

I made it halfway through one episode.

I am a woman. To watch one be that stupid is just painful. If that's the best America can do in a "serious drama" that has the Commander in Chief make indignant choices based on heaving chest anger, I'm sorry, I might just have to start watching Reality TV to get my smart.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Depends on the woman. I just have trouble seeing most ACTRESSES as the President. Julia Roberts is an example. Some of her comments reflect a certain lack of profundity.

 

[Recidiva]

Depends on the woman. I just have trouble seeing most ACTRESSES as the President. Julia Roberts is an example. Some of her comments reflect a certain lack of profundity.

My bet would be on Joan Allen. I'd vote for her.

 

[JamesSD]

My bet would be on Joan Allen. I'd vote for her.

There was a movie she became President I think. Let me look it up...

Oh, no I'm thinking of The Contender, but she was running for VP in that movie.

 

[Huckleman2000]

"Not even Josiah Barlett gets a third term..." the announcement said this evening, the network will pull the plug on this popular series as Bartlett ends his second term.

The last program is apparently planned to air in early spring.

Certainly many who watched the program were curious about how it might continue, especially since one of the main characters played by John Spencer, recently died of a heart attack in real life.

I suppose it was time.


amicus....

Consider this a deeply masochistic impulse, but....

I'm curious, Amicus, how you viewed President Bartlett?

In many ways, I would think he exemplified your appeal to reason and logic in his approach to governance. The conflict between his paternal private-school upbringing, and his deference and loyalty to his father's assistant until her untimely death (with her pointed dichotomy to some of his father's beliefs) raises issues of respect for inherited beliefs against respect for personal experience.

True, Bartlett existed in a fictional realm that was manipulated to illuminate or explore various aspects of his psyche. I'm just curious what your impressions of that portrayal were?

 

[amicus]

Huckleman2000]Consider this a deeply masochistic impulse, but....

I'm curious, Amicus, how you viewed President Bartlett?

In many ways, I would think he exemplified your appeal to reason and logic in his approach to governance. The conflict between his paternal private-school upbringing, and his deference and loyalty to his father's assistant until her untimely death (with her pointed dichotomy to some of his father's beliefs) raises issues of respect for inherited beliefs against respect for personal experience.

True, Bartlett existed in a fictional realm that was manipulated to illuminate or explore various aspects of his psyche. I'm just curious what your impressions of that portrayal were?

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maschistic or Sadistic? chuckles....but thank you for the question, I hope I can do it justice.

I discovered West Wing in perhaps its third season, the same has happened with the program, '24', I do not follow network television much, mainly watch cable news, science, history, Nasa and similar channels, and of course look for good movies now and then.

To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised beyond the appreciation for the excellent writing and humor, crisp and sophisticated, ever erudite at times, unusual for televison, perhaps only Mash and Northern Exposure, in totally different ways, approached the quality of West Wing.

While there was no lack of left wing principles concerning health care, social security, womens' rights, rights of minorities, gun control, education, all the 'buzz' issues that remain so partisan in government, the writers of West Wing did not demean the opposition party or opposing viewpoints out of hand. Rather they often gave a fair hearing to the 'rotten republicans' and even hired one or two as staffers.

The ongoing scenario concerning his secretary, the flashback's to his youth, his father and the woman were delicately handled and poignant with deep feelings and emotions. Several personal episodes concerning the main characters displayed the same sensitivity to personal characteristics and dealt with deep emotional conflicts.

Yes, I did appreciate his basic mindset of relying upon logic and reason, or at least of the script writers portrayal as such. The episodes concerned with his daughters kidnapping where he recused himself from office seemed to surpass political ideology and enter that realm of universal morality and ethics of which I speak from time to time.

I did not appreciate the usual liberal thrust of 'smart women' and bumbling men, a typical feminist thrust; nor did I appreciate the black clerk sleeping with his daughter in the White House residence, both I considered to be expressions of left wing social goals that go far beyond mainstream American social behavior.

In some ways, it was a very clever show, the foreign policy of the Bartlett White House seemed almost an apology for the Clinton years of cutting military spending and gutting intelligence organizations; which cost us by allowing 9/11.

I wish there had been more episodes with Mary Louise Parker, Josh's girl friend, something about that gal turns me on, her eyes, I think and her quirky mouth.

I could never quite fathom his assistant, Donna Moss, her character seemed to vacillate between maternal towards him, but she had a slutty side that I feel was never explained.

The drug and alcoholic background of John Spencer, 'Leo', the hidden disease of the President, and the 'Jewishness' of the other main character, were also very clever portrayals of the weakness of man, and the need for toleration and foregiveness, that kind of secular humanist ambivalence that shies away from making moral judgements.

I will miss the show and most likely continue to watch the reruns in hopes of catching the episodes I missed along the way.

However, I find I cannot watch, "Commander in Chief' with Geena Davis, I tried again to watch it this week and quickly lost interest, no comparison to West Wing, not on any level I could see.

Not sure that answered your question...but that is what came to mind, again, thanks for asking.

You might tell me your impressions of the show...from any aspect you choose.

amicus...

 

[shereads]

I didn't have the heart to watch West Wing after John Spencer's death a few weeks ago. I haven't been a regular viewer since some disappointing episodes after Aaron Sorkin left, but I've heard that it regained some of its sharpess under whatshisname who wrote Hill Street Blues and the original season of NYPD Blue.

Under Aaron Sorkin, West Wing was rarely about kidnappings and terrorist threats. He was interested in the way politics challenges people's integrity. He liked exploring the gray areas that make perfect solutions unlikely or even impossible. He could milk more drama out of a filibuster than most TV writers can from a hostage crisis. He could have me glued to the screen, with an episode about processes and procedural disputes of the kind that Civics & Government textbooks use to cure insomnia in students.

He gave us a president and White House staff who were so idealistic, it wouldn't have been credible if he had't also given them so many flaws and weaknesses. Integrity usually won over expedience, but not always. Compromises were made, sometimes with tragic consequences. The show's underlying idealism always shone through, but with a realistic amount of tarnish.

Sometimes it was painful to watch Sorkin's White House staff set aside their own personal interests to do the right thing. It was painful because it was a fantasy, and it shouldn't be.

A friend and I used to watch West Wing together and take turns choosing a weekly "Sentence Least Likely To Ever Be Spoken In the Actual White House." I think our all-time winner was when President Bartlett, who was facing a possible impeachment, angrily ordered his assistant not to lie for him.



Not in this life.

--------


Rest in peace, John Spencer. Thank you for four great years, Aaron Sorkin.

 

[shereads]

Most memorable moments: President Barlett, alone after his secretary's funeral, calls God "you sadistic son of a bitch," and grinds out his cigarette on the floor of the Washington Cathedral.

Christmas episode where head speech writer, Toby, arranges a military funeral for a homeless Vietnam veteran. Brilliant editing at the end, intercuts the gun salute with a White House performace by a children's choir.

Thanksgiving episode where Allison Janney's character, the White House press secretary, is forced to choose which one of three doomed turkeys will receive the traditional presidential pardon.

 

[amicus]

shereads]Most memorable moments: President Barlett, alone after his secretary's funeral, calls God "you sadistic son of a bitch," and grinds out his cigarette on the floor of the Washington Cathedral.

Christmas episode where head speech writer, Toby, arranges a military funeral for a homeless Vietnam veteran. Brilliant editing at the end, intercuts the gun salute with a White House performace by a children's choir.

Thanksgiving episode where Allison Janney's character, the White House press secretary, is forced to choose which one of three doomed turkeys will receive the traditional presidential pardon.

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

There are so many memorable moments it is hard to remember...there was one, when Josh displayed his lack of a poker face after discovering Bartlett to Rob Lowe, a silly kind of thing, but memorable.

Allison Janney's father and her old english teacher, two episodes, I think...

The whole decision to 'assassinate' a foreign terrorist leader and the repercussions, the decision to hide Bartlett's MS and the repercussion and loyalties involved.

Sad to see it come to an end...


amicus...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

It was a show for grown-ups, unlike most of TV.

 

[shereads]

Off-screen and unscripted, West Wing gave us this a line that reveals volumes about creativity, cluelessness, and the inevitable doom of intelligent TV shows:

An NBC spokesman, asked to comment on how Sorkin's departure would affect the show, answered, "The writing will be exactly the same, but without all the banter."



It reminded me of the emperor's critique of Mozart's new opera in "Amadeus."

"It has too many notes."