The Wanted Poster - A Rant

[estragon]

This is an estragon special rant. You have been warned.

If one thing irritates me more than most, it's the "Wanted Poster" beginning to a story. The hero/ine is described as if the FBI or CID were on her/his trail. Height, weight, eye color, hair color, distinguishing marks, size of breasts/penis, clothing, etc. etc. But of course there's never anything about the personality: what makes him/her laugh, or cry, religious views (if any), politics, favorite drink, friends, pets (human or animal)--of all the things that make us us, not a word. I find a cardboard cutout, not a person, and I find it hard to get all hot and bothered about cardboard.

To the Wanted Poster writers, I say "come on, guys, give me a wee bit of credit for having a trifle of imagination! If I wanted to read 'Wanted' or 'Missing Person' posters, I would".

Of course I know that by posting here this I'm preaching to the choir (and how!). I wish I could do characterizations like those of the regulars on this Board, and even some of the newbies. When I quibble, I feel admiration for, and just a little envious of, their talents.

Just sayin'.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Marnie was an intellectual. You could be sure of that; it would take a 44DD to hold both hemispheres of her 2,055cc brain. And when she was aroused, you knew it. Thoughts undulated through her lobes like a series of rogue waves at the Cape of Good Hope, and every man - and woman - worth his/her salt would have wanted to get her/his mind into Marnie's great cerebral commissure...

Just sayin'...

 

[PennLady]

Marnie was an intellectual. You could be sure of that; it would take a 44DD to hold both hemispheres of her 2,055cc brain. And when she was aroused, you knew it. Thoughts undulated through her lobes like a series of rogue waves at the Cape of Good Hope, and every man - and woman - worth his/her salt would have wanted to get her/his mind into Marnie's great cerebral commissure...

Just sayin'...

hahahaha. *snork*

I agree with estragon, though. In fact, I may go too far the other way. I provide little description, at least as compared to most writers. I don't think I've ever specified a woman's bust size, nor do I intend to unless it figures into the story. Same with men (well, not their bust size, of course). I end up dropping bits and pieces in as the characters get to know each other. So when they first meet in my stories, for example, I'll make general observations (or the characters will) about height, hair, eye color, maybe body shape. But that's about as far as I go.

I remember writing one story, forget which one, and got pretty far in before realizing I'd provided almost no description for the main characters. I think I went back to fix it, but that's how much I don't get into it.

And the wanted poster descriptions--I call them laundry lists--are just boring. I also end up rolling my eyes at most of them. Off the top of my head, though, I'd say the worst offenders are likely those written in first person.

"Hi, I'm Debbie. I love sex and have the body for it. I'm 5'5" with..."

Ugh.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

"Hi! I'm John Thomas. I love talking, and I have the vocabulary for it. You might not suspect it, but my Broca's area is nearly three standard deviations larger than the mean for sapient males of my chronological cohort. If you don't find me credible, why not palpate my left temporal, just below the squamosal suture..."

 

[sr71plt]

I've often contemplated writing from a narrator perspective with just such an opening, measurements and all--because I think that there are folks who really do operate from that sort of perspective. And I like to try different approaches and think it would be interesting to rumble around in a character's brain who thinks like that. Never have felt I was ready to attempt it, though. And I think it would do OK on Lit., because I think there's an audience here that thinks that way too.

 

[Stella_Omega]

There are indeed people who think that way. I see their posts on some of the other forums, and they use numbers to describe people quite often-- and get responses from other people who do the same thing. Makes for some strange convos from my point of view-- like, two trysails talking about sex. But they do communicate.

 

[estragon]

Stella, no doubt there are fans of those stories, and I'm sure those stories get readers, and get positive votes. I just turn off at that point.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella, no doubt there are fans of those stories, and I'm sure those stories get readers, and get positive votes. I just turn off at that point.

I feel more innumerate than ever. The numbers just sort of swim before my eyes and obscure the sexiness entirely.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Under certain circumstances, detailed descriptions might be called for. One example would be when a character is reading a swingers' ad, which always includes such details. There might be a few others, but I don't know of any offhand.

As for the looking in a mirror ploy, I believe the only time I have ever used that was when the protag, a M to F TS was examining herself in a mirror to see how the transformation was going. It was an integral part of the story, and I felt it was necessary.

 

[PennLady]

I feel more innumerate than ever. The numbers just sort of swim before my eyes and obscure the sexiness entirely.

I'm with you. I feel it's better and more effective -- for me and my readers, at least -- to describe shapes and textures and then the readers can fill in any gaps for themselves. I also find many laundry list descriptions to be repetitive and as you say, Stella, they take away the sexiness.

And I should differentiate -- it's one thing if you're writing something like:

She studied him from across the room. Dark hair, green eyes, a smile that quirked at the corner of his mouth, and probably close to six feet tall. Not bad, she decided.

But when I see (this is excerpted from a story that went up today):

Oh, I forgot to tell you a little bit about myself, today. All my friends think I'm attractive and some even 'hot.' I'm five feet six inches tall and weigh a hundred and twenty-three pounds. My hair is light brown with blonde streaks and I wear it around my shoulders. My measurements are 34C/25/35 and I have mauve colored nipples. Guys have checked me out my entire life so I guess they think that I'm desirable.

Then I'm out of there.

Sometimes you need it because that's what the character is seeing. But mostly it seems to be a lazy way to get things across.

 

[sr71plt]

So, if you had a character in the story who was that sort of person and the author wrote him/her up true to character, you'd just ditch the story? Sounds like you deny yourself the possibility of reading a good story. You are denying the existence of a whole, real type of person--who potentially could really add zing to a story.

(I do see that Penn Lady has opened a bit of a chink in this absolutist vision with her last sentence.)

I don't really react very well to threads like this. Aren't you trying to dictate when you start a thread saying what sort of story is below you here? Why can't you just write and read from the site what you like and let others write and read what they like without this hassle?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

John LeCarre pulled off an excellent wanted poster on the first page of his first book, CALL FOR THE DEAD. Its simply perfect.

 

[hottchic]

This is an estragon special rant. You have been warned.

If one thing irritates me more than most, it's the "Wanted Poster" beginning to a story. The hero/ine is described as if the FBI or CID were on her/his trail. Height, weight, eye color, hair color, distinguishing marks, size of breasts/penis, clothing, etc. etc. But of course there's never anything about the personality: what makes him/her laugh, or cry, religious views (if any), politics, favorite drink, friends, pets (human or animal)--of all the things that make us us, not a word. I find a cardboard cutout, not a person, and I find it hard to get all hot and bothered about cardboard.

To the Wanted Poster writers, I say "come on, guys, give me a wee bit of credit for having a trifle of imagination! If I wanted to read 'Wanted' or 'Missing Person' posters, I would".

Of course I know that by posting here this I'm preaching to the choir (and how!). I wish I could do characterizations like those of the regulars on this Board, and even some of the newbies. When I quibble, I feel admiration for, and just a little envious of, their talents.

Just sayin'.

Well all I can say is that maybe I have been lucky, because I have never read a story on Lit that started out like that.

Personally when I write only 30% of the story is physical discriptions or descriptions of physical activity, the rest is thoughts and emotions, 50% is emotional content and descriptions of physical sensations even in the sex scenes.

If I were to start a story with some type of description of a suspect, it would include a psychological profile (aka the series Criminal Minds).

 

[Stella_Omega]

This complaint reoccurs every few months. When it does, I love to link to this story;

Fibonacci's Window, and induct a few more folks into the Black Shanglan fan club!

 

[PennLady]

So, if you had a character in the story who was that sort of person and the author wrote him/her up true to character, you'd just ditch the story? Sounds like you deny yourself the possibility of reading a good story. You are denying the existence of a whole, real type of person--who potentially could really add zing to a story.

(I do see that Penn Lady has opened a bit of a chink in this absolutist vision with her last sentence.)

I don't really react very well to threads like this. Aren't you trying to dictate when you start a thread saying what sort of story is below you here? Why can't you just write and read from the site what you like and let others write and read what they like without this hassle?

Let me go backwards. No, no one's trying to dictate anything. We are discussing the fact that many of us feel these laundry list descriptions, or "wanted poster" descriptions, are clinical and take away from any erotic feelings we might have. Most times, I also think it's lazy. Obviously others will feel differently, and that's fine.

I'm sure I've read stories with laundry list descriptions, because I read a lot and because sometimes there will be something right before or after that, or perhaps in the title, that intrigues me enough to get past it. We -- or at least I -- am talking in generalizations, so there will always be exceptions.

Now, the story I quoted was in the Loving Wives category, which I likely wouldn't read anyway. It was also written in the first person, which is where I see this laundry list done most often, although I haven't gone and counted.

So ... why can't we talk about this stuff? Isn't this the author's hangout? Isn't this the place for authors to discuss writing and what we like to read and not, or write and not?

To get to the first part -- if the laundry list was there because it was true to the character, that's a whole different ball game. Then it probably wouldn't be as noticeable, or annoying, and I'd keep going. Just because I don't like this type of thing doesn't mean I can't make allowances, or find other things that outweigh it. And of course if I hadn't read it in the first place, I wouldn't know whether I liked it or not, under whatever circumstances.

 

[PennLady]

This complaint reoccurs every few months. When it does, I love to link to this story;

Fibonacci's Window, and induct a few more folks into the Black Shanglan fan club!

That is an excellent story and excellent use of numbers that is not a laundry list.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

This complaint reoccurs every few months. When it does, I love to link to this story;

Fibonacci's Window, and induct a few more folks into the Black Shanglan fan club!

Who does set an impossible standard for the rest of us. Wonderful, just wonderful.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I only dislike the laundry list of physical attributes upfront in the story when that is the only place in twenty pages over four chapters where all of the dozen or so characters are described. It really irks me when I have to keep going back to get an idea of who is sleeping with who.

"Which one was Rachel? The busty redhead or the skinny blonde? Oh, it was the tall brunette..."

There should always be reminders of what they look like throughout the story, no matter where the initial description is, at least in longer stories.

 

[sr71plt]

So ... why can't we talk about this stuff? Isn't this the author's hangout? Isn't this the place for authors to discuss writing and what we like to read and not, or write and not?

Obviously, there's no stopping folks from looking down their noses and talking about this stuff--every two weeks.

OP has a rant. My rant is in telling other authors and readers what they should/shouldn't be writing/reading and enjoying in the process.

 

[PennLady]

Obviously, there's no stopping folks from looking down their noses and talking about this stuff--every two weeks.

OP has a rant. My rant is in telling other authors and readers what they should/shouldn't be writing/reading and enjoying in the process.

No one's looking down their nose. We're just talking about what we like or don't, and why. No one's telling anyone what they should enjoy, or write, or anything else.

Why is it you seem not to want anyone to talk about writing, or what they like, or don't, or whatever? Or what we think is good or bad? It's all opinions. I get the feeling you don't think anyone should express any opinions like this.

Of course I think you just like to be contrary. But that's just me.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

FIBONACCI'S WINDOW is schizophrenic word salad. Real rubbish.

 

[sr71plt]

No one's looking down their nose.

Umm, yes they are. What other motivation is there to post about it?

Don't be stupid by using this to say I don't want anyone to talk about writing on the AH. This thread isn't just talking about writing, it's trying to dictate what should be written.

If it comes up in requested feedback, that's one thing. But to open up a thread on telling people what you don't like--you are trying to dictate to them what to write.

Don't be silly about this.

I think estragon's entries on the feedback board about specific stories liked/not liked is fine. That's not what this thread on the AH is--it's an attempt to choke off writing/reading choices to meet estragon's personal tastes--and then yours as well, apparently.

If I don't like a particular approach to writing on Lit., I'll just read something else. In most case there's a reading public for it, and it's not my "good" to tell them they can't read/write what they like.

Estragon (and you) have your rant on this topic; I have mine.

 

[sr71plt]

This complaint reoccurs every few months. When it does, I love to link to this story;

Fibonacci's Window, and induct a few more folks into the Black Shanglan fan club!

Cute, but it creates an inconsistent character. A guy possessed by a woman's measurements (a male type that I think actually exists) isn't likely to care that a loaf of bread costs $1.79. So, the story's over the top and doesn't show an understanding of (or even an attempt to understand or grasp) this stereotype character, I don't think. Spoofing something you haven't made an effort to understand is pretty much a display of disdainful prejudice.

So, I understand this is a spoof; I just don't think it's either a clever or masterful spoof. I'll have to go with JBJ on it--it's a numbers salad, jabbing fun, but not all that cleverly. It's well written, of course.

I think a clever use would be to stay honest and true to this type of male but to show what he's missing by locking onto the superficial--he could even be missing better sex, which he has mistakenly indexed to measurements.

 

[Verdad]

Oh, I forgot to tell you a little bit about myself, today. All my friends think I'm attractive and some even 'hot.' I'm five feet six inches tall and weigh a hundred and twenty-three pounds. My hair is light brown with blonde streaks and I wear it around my shoulders. My measurements are 34C/25/35 and I have mauve colored nipples. Guys have checked me out my entire life so I guess they think that I'm desirable.

Ha, great example. It’s awful writing, but I think it’s awful for more reasons than just the inclusion of measures—and I think it’s those same reasons that make it appealing to a portion of male audience.

This narrator would sound almost as contrived if she described her breasts in loving detail as she does by putting it in numeric terms. It’s really her intention that’s corny (“see how hot I am?”) and unless that intention can be sufficiently hidden from the reader, corny it will stay.

But a reader who seeks out this type of story doesn’t want it to be hidden. He likes it that she’s like a sex phone operator, describing her girly parts in order to arouse him.

It may even support his illusion of immediacy that she ‘talks’ to him like people actually talk sometimes if asked to provide a quick description of themselves. (If not bra sizes, surely height and weight are often used.)

While most of us may find smut works better for us if it doesn’t show its hand quite so blatantly, there’s always been an audience for these flirty-confessional-naïve accounts, and so long as we don't start giving them literary awards, I’m not too bothered with where “too corny to work” begins for someone else.

 

[sr71plt]

Of course I think you just like to be contrary. But that's just me.

I like to think of it as balanced and based in common sense and reality.