The validity of online relationships.

[Ausus_girl13]

We all have them. Especially here. Tell me how real they are. How much you think it's stupid... or not.

But here's the deal, speak from your own experience. Don't speak from a place of judgement (if you can). Own your own words. This, I expect will be heated. So if you can't take it, then walk away.

This conversation, it seems.. needs to be had. Let's do it. Get dirty and get it over with.

Ready?
Deep breaths everyone.

Go.

 

[Ausus_girl13]

Questions we might ask ourselves....

E-collars- are they valid? How much power do they hold?

Spreading the love. How annoying is it when someone posts repeatedly that they love someone that we all know (or can guess) that they've never met?

Is the person that we are supposedly in love with that person or just an idealized version of them?

Look these aren't easy questions. And these aren't even half of what we might ask ourselves. And I have totally done these things myself... I will speak to that tomorrow.

 

[Ahren]

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

I think it is possible to meet someone online and develop an attraction to them. How valid the feelings and/or relationship become really have to be observed on a case by case basis. I don't think making a sweeping generalization that all online relationships are stupid or valid makes much sense. Plenty of people have met online and gotten together in real life.

I think they're stupid if you claim to love someone online that you've never met, especially if there's no intention of ever taking the relationship offline.

I think it's ridiculous to develop an online, romantic relationship while you are in a real relationship without informing your significant other. If they know and don't care, well I guess that's your business. That's not a relationship I'd care to be in but whatever. Now if they don't know and you make an effort to hide it from them, then you're cheating as far as I'm concerned, even if you don't intend to take the relationship offline. Honestly what is even the point in that case?

I think stories are kind of a different case, as in I don't necessarily consider it cheating to write in a sexual RP if your SO doesn't know, because that's entirely fictional. I'd still consider it a bit suspect that you choose to keep this information from someone that close to you, however. I suppose one scenario I could think of is if you're totally embarassed by your writing and don't want them to see it, but you could at least still tell them you write.

Kinda losing my train of thought here... I had another point to make.. I'll move on for now.

"E-collars" - Incredibly stupid in my opinion, but that's me.. Treating someone like property is pretty idiotic, even if they claim to like it. It's pointless because how can you claim to own someone over the Internet? They've no obligation to adhere to this.. agreement.

"Spreading the love. How annoying is it when someone posts repeatedly that they love someone that we all know (or can guess) that they've never met?" - Pretty goddamn annoying, because news flash, you don't love them. You love some text, and at best some photos/video and a voice. You're never really going to really know someone without meeting them, however. An online persona can be very different from someone in real life, even taking things like pictures into account. So yes, I think it may just be the 'ideal' they are in love with. There are so many little things that go into a relationship that are impossible to emulate online, and they could be the things that ultimately destroy a relationship.

I've had a couple online romantic relationships in the past. They all pretty much crashed and burned eventually.

 

[Light Ice]

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

I think it is possible to meet someone online and develop an attraction to them. How valid the feelings and/or relationship become really have to be observed on a case by case basis. I don't think making a sweeping generalization that all online relationships are stupid or valid makes much sense. Plenty of people have met online and gotten together in real life.

I think they're stupid if you claim to love someone online that you've never met, especially if there's no intention of ever taking the relationship offline.

I think it's ridiculous to develop an online, romantic relationship while you are in a real relationship without informing your significant other. If they know and don't care, well I guess that's your business. That's not a relationship I'd care to be in but whatever. Now if they don't know and you make an effort to hide it from them, then you're cheating as far as I'm concerned, even if you don't intend to take the relationship offline. Honestly what is even the point in that case?

I think stories are kind of a different case, as in I don't necessarily consider it cheating to write in a sexual RP if your SO doesn't know, because that's entirely fictional. I'd still consider it a bit suspect that you choose to keep this information from someone that close to you, however. I suppose one scenario I could think of is if you're totally embarassed by your writing and don't want them to see it, but you could at least still tell them you write.

Kinda losing my train of thought here... I had another point to make.. I'll move on for now.

"E-collars" - Incredibly stupid in my opinion, but that's me.. Treating someone like property is pretty idiotic, even if they claim to like it. It's pointless because how can you claim to own someone over the Internet? They've no obligation to adhere to this.. agreement.

"Spreading the love. How annoying is it when someone posts repeatedly that they love someone that we all know (or can guess) that they've never met?" - Pretty goddamn annoying, because news flash, you don't love them. You love some text, and at best some photos/video and a voice. You're never really going to really know someone without meeting them, however. An online persona can be very different from someone in real life, even taking things like pictures into account. So yes, I think it may just be the 'ideal' they are in love with. There are so many little things that go into a relationship that are impossible to emulate online, and they could be the things that ultimately destroy a relationship.

I've had a couple online romantic relationships in the past. They all pretty much crashed and burned eventually.

This.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

My 2 cents

I do believe that one can build a valid *sort* of relationship strictly on line but that it will not ever BE a *real* relationship without there being the chance of a meeting...whether that be in person, talking on the phone, whatever. The ability to hide all the things that are not perfect from any on line s/o makes it even easier to put up a false front, to hide the things some one in the real world would know as unhealthy, scary or simple fantasy.

I have two very different scenarios to base this opinion on.

The first was a lady I met here under the SN destinie21. I thought we had a workable relationship; built on honesty, trust and the ability to call her whenever I chose to. We never really met in the flesh but I accepted that because she had another s/o in the real world. I was just her FWB, her daddy.

I met the second (and ultimately far more real) lady as a direct result of the first one. My baby mama (Trinique_Fire) was also dealing with d21. I had NO clue. Not until I started putting 2 and 2 together, not until she and I started comparing notes on d21. That particular female was a player, a liar, a cunt of the highest magnitude. Had I not had her to compare Trinnie to, I would have never known the difference.

Even so, Trinnie did not become a real person to me until I could touch her, hold her, stroke her. Until that moment she was an extension of my fevered imagination and active fanatsy life. An addendum.

So I don't believe in *REAL* on line love. I believe that what we love is only what we perceive and it isn't until there is a meeting in the flesh that love becomes a given (or not).

Same thing goes with on line collaring (which is why I have never had a wish to do so) or any of the rest of it. I do think it fills a certain emptiness but it is mostly a fantasy based upon words that we hope the other wrote for us, pictures that we hope are actually that person...and feelings that we hope the other person feels. And if they are dishonest or devious at all, we will never know the difference.

There are a few females here that I would love to be with in the RW...and they KNOW who they are. For one reason or another it won't happen and I accept it...which means no matter how much I adore them, no matter how much I miss them....I am really only missing the part of me that comes alive because of them...solo masturbation to an on line presence.

*Shrugs* At least that's how I see it, YMMV.

 

[Alana_]

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

I think it is possible to meet someone online and develop an attraction to them. How valid the feelings and/or relationship become really have to be observed on a case by case basis. I don't think making a sweeping generalization that all online relationships are stupid or valid makes much sense. Plenty of people have met online and gotten together in real life.

I think they're stupid if you claim to love someone online that you've never met, especially if there's no intention of ever taking the relationship offline.

I think it's ridiculous to develop an online, romantic relationship while you are in a real relationship without informing your significant other. If they know and don't care, well I guess that's your business. That's not a relationship I'd care to be in but whatever. Now if they don't know and you make an effort to hide it from them, then you're cheating as far as I'm concerned, even if you don't intend to take the relationship offline. Honestly what is even the point in that case?

I think stories are kind of a different case, as in I don't necessarily consider it cheating to write in a sexual RP if your SO doesn't know, because that's entirely fictional. I'd still consider it a bit suspect that you choose to keep this information from someone that close to you, however. I suppose one scenario I could think of is if you're totally embarassed by your writing and don't want them to see it, but you could at least still tell them you write.

Kinda losing my train of thought here... I had another point to make.. I'll move on for now.

"E-collars" - Incredibly stupid in my opinion, but that's me.. Treating someone like property is pretty idiotic, even if they claim to like it. It's pointless because how can you claim to own someone over the Internet? They've no obligation to adhere to this.. agreement.

"Spreading the love. How annoying is it when someone posts repeatedly that they love someone that we all know (or can guess) that they've never met?" - Pretty goddamn annoying, because news flash, you don't love them. You love some text, and at best some photos/video and a voice. You're never really going to really know someone without meeting them, however. An online persona can be very different from someone in real life, even taking things like pictures into account. So yes, I think it may just be the 'ideal' they are in love with. There are so many little things that go into a relationship that are impossible to emulate online, and they could be the things that ultimately destroy a relationship.

I've had a couple online romantic relationships in the past. They all pretty much crashed and burned eventually.

No reason for me to type my own reply, as Ahren's is perfectly applicable.

 

[sallythescorpian]

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

I think it is possible to meet someone online and develop an attraction to them. How valid the feelings and/or relationship become really have to be observed on a case by case basis. I don't think making a sweeping generalization that all online relationships are stupid or valid makes much sense. Plenty of people have met online and gotten together in real life.

I think they're stupid if you claim to love someone online that you've never met, especially if there's no intention of ever taking the relationship offline.

I think it's ridiculous to develop an online, romantic relationship while you are in a real relationship without informing your significant other. If they know and don't care, well I guess that's your business. That's not a relationship I'd care to be in but whatever. Now if they don't know and you make an effort to hide it from them, then you're cheating as far as I'm concerned, even if you don't intend to take the relationship offline. Honestly what is even the point in that case?

I think stories are kind of a different case, as in I don't necessarily consider it cheating to write in a sexual RP if your SO doesn't know, because that's entirely fictional. I'd still consider it a bit suspect that you choose to keep this information from someone that close to you, however. I suppose one scenario I could think of is if you're totally embarassed by your writing and don't want them to see it, but you could at least still tell them you write.

Kinda losing my train of thought here... I had another point to make.. I'll move on for now.

"E-collars" - Incredibly stupid in my opinion, but that's me.. Treating someone like property is pretty idiotic, even if they claim to like it. It's pointless because how can you claim to own someone over the Internet? They've no obligation to adhere to this.. agreement.

"Spreading the love. How annoying is it when someone posts repeatedly that they love someone that we all know (or can guess) that they've never met?" - Pretty goddamn annoying, because news flash, you don't love them. You love some text, and at best some photos/video and a voice. You're never really going to really know someone without meeting them, however. An online persona can be very different from someone in real life, even taking things like pictures into account. So yes, I think it may just be the 'ideal' they are in love with. There are so many little things that go into a relationship that are impossible to emulate online, and they could be the things that ultimately destroy a relationship.

I've had a couple online romantic relationships in the past. They all pretty much crashed and burned eventually.

Struggling to believe this, but I agree with Ahren, pretty much word for word.

 

[grant_s]

Okay, lets begin

How real are they, well, I don't tell someone, I love them, if I don't mean it, to me my word is what defines me, the minute anyone says he doesn't trust a word I say, well, whomever they are to me, it is time to walk away.

So, to me, they are and can be as real as the real thing.

Am I stupid, well, probably, I have had some blow up in my face, one went crazy on me, and turned everything I said to her in private against me, including my family.
The other, some know about her, and the less said the better.

E Collars, well I personally don't believe in putting on a collar, but before people judge the practice, how many have put a ring on another persons finger, I know its not the same, its the same practice, and some people do follow the instructions given.

As for online relationships, who is to say that the two people will never meet, the one thing I agree with Ahren, I think it is possible to meet someone online and develop an attraction to them. How valid the feelings and/or relationship become really have to be observed on a case by case basis. I don't think making a sweeping generalization that all online relationships are stupid or valid makes much sense. Plenty of people have met online and gotten together in real life. Every person should be allowed to decide and do what they feel is right for them.

Is the person just an idealized version, maybe, that I will know if we meet.

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

Sounds like a contradiction to me, and more like an acquaintance is what is being described here, and not a friendship. A friend I would do anything for, if not, they are not a friend, but a mere acquaintance. an example, I walked out of my job, because they wouldn't give me time off when a friend needed me. When I returned and explained why, they understood, but warned me not to do it again, without getting permission, I would do it in a heartbeat if I am called again.

Let me pose this question. Would anyone go to see a stripper without the knowledge of their spouse, or partner, and how do you describe that in terms of your relationship.
To me, that is cheating. Tradition has it guys go see a stripper before they get married, now, you are supposed to be marrying the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, and yet, your are taken to see naked women dancing and teasing.

I'm not going to pick Ahren's words apart, but no-one can tell me how I feel, and for whom I feel for. Am I going to meet that person in RL, who knows, I have been to many countries, through work and on my travels, so there is nothing stopping me from travelling to meet in RL.

 

[dragonrazor]

The validity of any relationship is only between the people in that relationship. Doesn't matter what anyone else believes about that relationship.

 

[Ausus_girl13]

And I have totally done these things myself... I will speak to that tomorrow.

I think they're stupid if you claim to love someone online that you've never met, especially if there's no intention of ever taking the relationship offline.

I think it's ridiculous to develop an online, romantic relationship while you are in a real relationship without informing your significant other. If they know and don't care, well I guess that's your business. That's not a relationship I'd care to be in but whatever. Now if they don't know and you make an effort to hide it from them, then you're cheating as far as I'm concerned, even if you don't intend to take the relationship offline. Honestly what is even the point in that case?

I actually agree with most of what Ahren says. No big surprise there. I usually do agree when he's got something to say (for the most part-not always).

However there are a couple of points that I wanted to highlight. First, I don't feel incredibly stupid for loving someone on here. Well there were/are two of them.

One was manipulative and hurt me incredibly deeply. It was messy, and a good part of it played out here. And I learned from that. Quickly too, but would I change it? Prolly not. I learned some things from it.

The second.. well you all know who that is. Sure, I fell for her. I was also hurt here in a way, because there is nothing that will ever, can ever, make it real. But! I still love her. Why? Because even though maybe what I have is an idealized version of her completely in my head.. that's what I needed. I needed her, the idea of her, in my life, in that moment of time. She helped me get past the idea of being bisexual, fuck she was a big part of the reason that I actually, finally told my mom. Exactly what she did is what I needed to see happen.

Okay, lets begin

How real are they, well, I don't tell someone, I love them, if I don't mean it, to me my word is what defines me, the minute anyone says he doesn't trust a word I say, well, whomever they are to me, it is time to walk away.

So, to me, they are and can be as real as the real thing.

Am I stupid, well, probably, I have had some blow up in my face, one went crazy on me, and turned everything I said to her in private against me, including my family.
The other, some know about her, and the less said the better.

E Collars, well I personally don't believe in putting on a collar, but before people judge the practice, how many have put a ring on another persons finger, I know its not the same, its the same practice, and some people do follow the instructions given.

As for online relationships, who is to say that the two people will never meet, the one thing I agree with Ahren, I think it is possible to meet someone online and develop an attraction to them. How valid the feelings and/or relationship become really have to be observed on a case by case basis. I don't think making a sweeping generalization that all online relationships are stupid or valid makes much sense. Plenty of people have met online and gotten together in real life. Every person should be allowed to decide and do what they feel is right for them.

Is the person just an idealized version, maybe, that I will know if we meet.

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

Sounds like a contradiction to me, and more like an acquaintance is what is being described here, and not a friendship. A friend I would do anything for, if not, they are not a friend, but a mere acquaintance. an example, I walked out of my job, because they wouldn't give me time off when a friend needed me. When I returned and explained why, they understood, but warned me not to do it again, without getting permission, I would do it in a heartbeat if I am called again.

Let me pose this question. Would anyone go to see a stripper without the knowledge of their spouse, or partner, and how do you describe that in terms of your relationship.
To me, that is cheating. Tradition has it guys go see a stripper before they get married, now, you are supposed to be marrying the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, and yet, your are taken to see naked women dancing and teasing.

I'm not going to pick Ahren's words apart, but no-one can tell me how I feel, and for whom I feel for. Am I going to meet that person in RL, who knows, I have been to many countries, through work and on my travels, so there is nothing stopping me from travelling to meet in RL.

It's interesting to me that you spoke up Grant, but you didn't speak to your relationship that you are currently in. Just sayin.

Okay, here's the part where I get wishy-washy, the best part of online relationships, is that you can make them exactly what you want/need them to be. I won't lie, a big part of the reason that I have had a few is because I needed to wrap my head around this BDSM and Poly thing that I am doing in RL.

It was/is practice for me to be badass in RL, but when I first came out, I had no fucking clue what I was doing. So to "practice" in the relative safety of my head before attempting this huge thing? It makes sense to me. HOWEVER- that doesn't mean that these relationships didn't mean anything. Because they did. I learned things about how I work, and what works for me, and whether or not I could fall for someone else and still be honest about the whole thing with Zom.

As for having a gf/bf online and lying to your spouse? Why do it? That's what I don't get about you monogamous fuckers. Chances are good that if you aren't happy, they aren't happy either. Shit, a little online nookie can sometimes be all you need to make you want to jump your SO. And monogamy doesn't always work, it isn't for everyone, yet for some reason we cling to this belief that "that one true love" is out there. Sure it is! Doesn't mean you don't want to fuck the knickers off someone else.

Yes, you can find love online. But the majority of it is in your head. If you know this and can accept it.. then do it. If you think it's more than that- you're lying to yourself.

 

[Braschi]

Let's talk about web-pages. Are they "real"? I mean, you're reading one now, but does it exist? When you visit a site, you can have all sorts of experiences, learn all kinds of new things, see thing's in different parts of the world. But, if you visit a page about Tahiti, no matter how well the page is put together, or how accurate and realistic it is, you don't say you took a vacation to Tahiti afterwards, do you?

The same applies to online relationships, be they acquaintances, friends, coworkers, whatever. You can have a completely honest, open, intense, charged discussion, exchange and connection with someone. But it's still virtual. Until you actually shake hands, or hug or share a booth at a restaurant, you can't say you "really" met someone, anymore than you can say you went to Tahiti.

That's not to cheapen the relationship or experience: it's still another human being. Just like people lie and cheat in the real world, they can do it online, perhaps with even more impunity. An email isn't any less than a posted letter, nor a chat session any worse than a telephone conversation. What, are you going to denigrate the relationship you have with your Mum, even though you only get together for Christmas and just talk on the phone the rest of the year? Is your President or Prime Minister any less real to you because you've never actually met him, or will you dismiss a court summons as unreal because you've never met the issuing judge?

The internet is just another medium between people. It doesn't make things any more real or any less real than what they are.

Let me pose this question. Would anyone go to see a stripper without the knowledge of their spouse, or partner, and how do you describe that in terms of your relationship.
To me, that is cheating. Tradition has it guys go see a stripper before they get married, now, you are supposed to be marrying the person you want to spend the rest of your life with, and yet, your are taken to see naked women dancing and teasing.

Well, that "tradition" as far as I know, is fairly new, being perpetuated mostly in the media. I'll wager that most stag nights don't include a stripper, since the whole thing is more of a "last party" with friends before the groom has to "settle down" to a more responsible life. At least the ones I've been to have been more about showing support to the groom, camaraderie and not much drinking. But, I guess that doesn't make for a good movie...

As for the first question, I'm not much for strip clubs or shows of that nature; though I already know if I did for some obscure reason suddenly decide to go, my SO wouldn't mind, so I don't see it as an issue. I certainly wouldn't mind if she went...

 

[Ahren]

No, we don't all have them and that's kind of a foolish assumption to make, unless we're discussing the validity of all relationships period, not just romantic ones. Seems a bit silly to me though, because having a friend online is a type of relationship, and there's really nothing stupid about enjoying the company or conversation of someone you only know over the computer.

When you take it further than that it gets more complicated.

Sounds like a contradiction to me, and more like an acquaintance is what is being described here, and not a friendship. A friend I would do anything for, if not, they are not a friend, but a mere acquaintance. an example, I walked out of my job, because they wouldn't give me time off when a friend needed me. When I returned and explained why, they understood, but warned me not to do it again, without getting permission, I would do it in a heartbeat if I am called again.

Sorry but I have no idea how this is a response to what I said, nor do I see any sort of contradiction.

 

[princesssexci]

I think it depends on how close you are willing to get to said guy or girl. I know I have tried to have online relationships with guys on here and things didn't work out(I'm not saying with whom, he knows who he is) . I think part of it was I was not willing to compromise on certain aspects of his life and I guess when i do get into online relationships I get a tad bit too needy or what not. However, its hard to have a long distance relationship and NOT want to talk to said guy.

E-collars- are they valid? How much power do they hold?

No, they are not because while you THINK you have a girl collared there isn't much validity to it because unless you know that person in real life and actually want to meet them. It won't work. This is from past experiences and I will admit when I tell a guy I'm his 'slave' I don't particularly mean it. It's just fun and games to me, something to get my gears going but its not real.


Spreading the love. How annoying is it when someone posts repeatedly that they love someone that we all know (or can guess) that they've never met? I have a guy right now who is not on lit but constantly ims me and tells me he loves me. That right there is an indication that I don't want to be with him. I know it sounds weird but its because I've known him since he was in his teens and he loves anything with breasts. He's told me he's loved me before and then 'cheated' on me with another girl online or told one of my friends he loves me. Which leads into the next question....

Is the person that we are supposedly in love with that person or just an idealized version of them? I feel that sometimes online you aren't in love with the person you're in love with who you think they are or imagine them to be. Thats not always the case mind you, sometimes you say it because they say it and don't want to hurt their feelings(I've done this) or just in love with love.

Overall, I'm not saying online relationships aren't legit. Some are. I know people who have met in chatrooms and then end up married two years later. I'm just saying that sometimes you fall in love with who you think they are and once you actually talk to them through text or on the phone it just doesn't work out.

Wow...this was a lot longer than i thought it would be. Anywho, thats my opinion.

 

[grant_s]

Sorry but I have no idea how this is a response to what I said, nor do I see any sort of contradiction.

I'll break it down, you are saying you can have a online friendship, and thats fine, yet when it becomes a relationship, its all silly. You don't know the person on the other end, so you contradict yourself saying its okay to make friends with someone you don't know, friendship is based on trust, but to have feelings for someone its silly.

 

[grant_s]

It's interesting to me that you spoke up Grant, but you didn't speak to your relationship that you are currently in. Just sayin.

Well there is a simple answer to that, She doesn't want any more drama, this topic has the potential to be full of it, so out of respect I will not comment on that.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

The validity of any relationship is only between the people in that relationship. Doesn't matter what anyone else believes about that relationship.

I have to agree with Razor on this one. If what the people involved want is an online relationship, then that is a valid relationship for them, no matter what anyone else may think.

Most of us, I'm sure, would disagree quite vehemently with those who would claim that a homosexual marriage was not a valid relationship, so why would we even consider declaring an online relationship to be invalid?

The only real difficulty is for the people involved, should they believe the relationship is something other than what it is. But we see enough of that in the RW as well.

For myself, I have RW relationships and I have online ones; it works for me, I think, because I don't expect the RW ones to have the same qualities as the online, and vice-versa. And where I've met the online person in real life, that ends up yet another context of relationship.

 

[Ahren]

I'll break it down, you are saying you can have a online friendship, and thats fine, yet when it becomes a relationship, its all silly. You don't know the person on the other end, so you contradict yourself saying its okay to make friends with someone you don't know, friendship is based on trust, but to have feelings for someone its silly.

Well it's only a contradiction to you because you're obviously using a different definition of 'friend'.

You make it sound like you can only truly be someone's friend if you trust them implicitly. There are a lot of people online I'd consider friends but that doesn't mean I'm gonna trust them with my bank account or something. So I simply don't agree with your definition. Trust can be a part of it, but it isn't the basis. Like I said before, I think it's based on a level of compatibility and shared interests.

 

[Ausus_girl13]

Well there is a simple answer to that, She doesn't want any more drama, this topic has the potential to be full of it, so out of respect I will not comment on that.

It's just too easy. So consider my snark put away on this one.

 

[grant_s]

Well it's only a contradiction to you because you're obviously using a different definition of 'friend'.

You make it sound like you can only truly be someone's friend if you trust them implicitly. There are a lot of people online I'd consider friends but that doesn't mean I'm gonna trust them with my bank account or something. So I simply don't agree with your definition. Trust can be a part of it, but it isn't the basis. Like I said before, I think it's based on a level of compatibility and shared interests.

Then I would argue that these 'friends' are merely acquaintances as I said in my original post. Whatever the level of trust you have, if there isn't trust then what or how do you base a friendship, simply someone willing to talk to 'you'.

Anyone feel free to respond, as I am not challenging Ahren on this, but how do you define friendship online and in the RW?

 

[Ahren]

All right, define them however you wish, though in that case I also consider it silly to have friends online to the level you're talking about. So I'm still not contradicting myself. I would find it very difficult to completely trust someone I never met just like I would find it very difficult to love someone I have never met.

 

[Last_Rider]

Razor makes an exceptionally good point that sums up my general feelings. Much of my argument comes back to that simple point so adding more words to it seems unnecessary. I will however talk specifically about a few things that have been brought up.

1. E-collars: These have as much power as you decide to give them. I didn't take mine lightly, but both LT and I discussed in depth what we expected and what could be gained from our relationship. Was it completely possible that neither she nor I took it seriously and simply had a good laugh at one another? Of course it's possible. I don't think that happened, at the very least I know it didn't happen from my end. Like any relationship, an online one is only as valid as you choose to make it.

2. Love: This is quite a hot button topic recently, so here's my little bit. Speaking only for myself, I don't say "I love you" lightly or all that often. I've never said it to anyone outside of family IRL, and only to three people here. I absolutely mean it to all of them. I find connecting with someone here much easier than in the real world. I'll freely admit that my lack of experience in the real world could invalidate, objectively speaking, my feelings about people across this particular medium. The only counter to that is I simply speak from what I know best right now.

3. Is the person we're supposedly in love with just an idealized version of them:

This one gets tricky, but in the end I think we only tend to fall for idealized versions of people. We go through great lengths to present ourselves in the best light, find the best common activity, do whatever we can to hide our quirks or imperfections. During the dating process no one is really themselves for quite a while, the idea is to get someone to stick around and the things we don't like about ourselves must be hidden to achieve that result. On a site like this not revealing my personal imperfections is simply faster and easier and that appeals to me. Plus it's easier to remove much of the guesswork from dating, I already know those who I will have things in common with and who I would like to know better.

It's only after time that we feel comfortable showing off the unique things that make us individuals. Even then it's something of a terrifying prospect, because that is the real us as opposed to the pieces we've been showing. Further speaking for myself, I've never said that any of the people I'm close with online are perfect. They aren't, no one is objectively perfect. I choose to see the best in them, even with all their imperfections. I think if two people are honest and open with one another about thoughts, feelings, etc. then this is one of the better ways to meet people. You're initially meeting with someone on one of the purer planes, idea to idea. That isn't to speak down on how people meet IRL, as that's much more socially acceptable and seems to be the primary source for continuing the species, I just feel like I get to know someone on a much different level through this medium than person to person.

Obviously "I need to get out more".

That's simply my view, feel free to comment, criticize, eviscerate, or demean it.

 

[Ahren]

Dragon's point of 'it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks' might make more sense if this wasn't a topic literally asking what everyone else thinks.

Truth is it actually kinda does matter, because if you're in a relationship that is only valid when you decide no one else's opinion matters then there's inherently something wrong with it in the first place.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

As far as I can see those who have posted on this subject fall into two distinct camps: those who do not believe only on line anything can be real beyond what each person perceives and those who disagree.

I posted what side I fall on earlier and based it on my own experiences (for those who care, my thoughts on the subject are close to Ahren's with a few exceptions as noted) but that means nothing as it is only my opinion.

I believe that Rider made an elegant case for the other side. And that Ausus did as well but those things dont change my opinion.

However i did want to add something concerning friendship- both here and rl. I trust those that i play with. Most of them have my cell number, know my real name and are people who have kept me sane. They are friends that i met here. In rl it is the same thing. If i trust you with my fam, my heart, my dreams then we are friends. There isnt any diffference.

 

[fr33ks33k]

Dragon's point of 'it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks' might make more sense if this wasn't a topic literally asking what everyone else thinks.

Truth is it actually kinda does matter, because if you're in a relationship that is only valid when you decide no one else's opinion matters then there's inherently something wrong with it in the first place.

Well, it is a valid opinion to hold, be it right or wrong.

As for whether outside opinion matters in the validity of a relationship, I would tend to agree with Dragon. If you dictate the validity of your relationships based on how others will judge you for being in that relationship, then you spend more time questioning yourself and less time being in that relationship.

This doesn't mean that it is only valid when you disregard others' opinions, it simply means that for the people involved, it exists outside the realm where those other peoples' opinions have sway over being/staying in that relationship. When you strip away the need to validate your relationships in other peoples' eyes, you allow yourself to focus solely on the relationship you're in.

 

[Light Ice]

I think the argument about "definitions" is one of the most cowardly cop outs that people use. I really do. Their intention is to take the conversation from a grounded place and turn it metaphysical. It's pure avoidance.

You will not convince me that you can value your friends on the computer as much as you can value your friends offline. I'll believe you are a liar if you try it.

You will not convince me that E-Fucking is as satisfying as actually fucking. I'll call you a liar, outright, if you try.

You will not convince me that you are as satisfied with an online love as you would be a love that's actually with you. I'll call you a liar.

You will not convince me that an online relationship can have the same significance as one you forged in person. I'll call you a liar.

That's what the conversation is about. It's comparing a "real" relationship and its elements to that of an online one. There is no slick definition that will avoid those above points. There is no amount of dialogue you can use that can avoid how concrete they are.

This is especially true if you have no intention of meeting someone.