the use of safe words

[the captians wench]

mis's post about using her safe word for the first time got me to thinking...

my playmate and I reciently had another sub involved in our playdate. Durring the scene he had me fist her. After about 5 mins of this, she looks up at him and in a very as a mater of fact kind of way tells him that she doesn't feel like fisting today. He being the kind of dom he is, didn't respond to this in the manor she was obviously expecting, but insted shoved her head back into his crotch and ordered me to continue. About 2 mins later she kneels up again and again in a very we will do things my way kind of tone she called her safeword. He told me to stop, and we moved on to a different activity, which again she was not happy with so in the course of that activity, not changing her tone one bit, she safeworded again.

She confided in me later that she thought it was totally rediculous that she had to use her safeword at all, let alone twice. She said she's never had to use it before and she didn't see why she should have had to in this instance.

To me, it seemed like she was topping from the bottom the way she called her safeword. She never said she was upset, she never told us what she was feeling or why she felt she needed to safeword, other than she didn't feel like doing those activities that day. Now I don't think foe one second that Jounar or any dom I've played with would let me for one moment think that I was in charge of the scene and that if I didn't feel like doing something then we wouldn't do it. When I've been permited safewords, I've always felt like I had a responcibility to not use it unless I felt like I was in trouble, and it's always disapointed me when I've even thought about using one.

I also explained to her that he was testing her limits that day a bit. we'd never played with her together and he was trying to see how far he could push her. She admited that she knew that's what was going on, and she didn't like that. I told her that the only 2 times I've ever safeworded was when he and I were playing for the first time and he was trying to see what my limits were, and even then I didn't red, I yellowed, and I was so disapointed that I even yellowed that I cried and apologized to him.

To me the whole scene with her safeword seemed disrespectful, but she doesn't understand why. She believes that if she doesn't feel like doing something she shouldn't have to do it, and since he didn't agree her safeword was called.

I guess what I'm really asking is what does a safeword mean to you. Is it a way to get out of something you don't like? or is it only used when you feel paniced? Or something different all together?

 

[xxCrystal4314xx]

To me, safewords are only for use when the sub feels they desperately need to stop, not because it suits them not to do what I choose. If this woman didn't want to do whatever she was told, she'd have been better not to get involved at all imho.

 

[Calyph]

To me, safewords are only for use when the sub feels they desperately need to stop, not because it suits them not to do what I choose. If this woman didn't want to do whatever she was told, she'd have been better not to get involved at all imho.

I totally agree... I've never used a safeword, though I have asked to stop a few times.
I've voiced the opinion that I dont want to do something a few times, but in the end it isn't for me to decide. If she's not comfortable dealing with that fact, perhaps the dom/sub scene is the wrong place for her, or at least not with as serious a Dom as yours.
And yes, it does sound disrespectful to me.

 

[museofdragon]

With our dynamic, my safeword is only for use in cases of SEVERE physical or emotional distress. i have only used it once. If i used it just to get out of something that i "didn't feel like" doing, i fear the consequences would be harsher that what i was originally trying to get out of. That being said, we are in a 24/7, with a play partner it may be different. Maybe your Dom and you have a different level of commitment to play than she does. Her behavior sounds like blatant manipulation to me. though.

i would sit down in a non-sexual venue, and have a long talk with her (both of you) before any more play took place. Just to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

Just my tuppence.

muse

 

[Calyph]

Maybe your Dom and you have a different level of commitment to play than she does. Her behavior sounds like blatant manipulation to me. though.

Thats exactly what I was trying (and failing) to say. Thanks

 

[ecstaticsub]

I've had this convversation with my Dom before the first time we played. He told me that I was welcome to use my safeword if needed. However, if I said red ALL play would stop for the night. We would take the time out to talk about what happened. Using red as a safe word was something serious and not to be used just because I didn't feel like doing whatever he asked me to do. We would then move on to vanilla sex or sleeep or out to dinner but we would not continue to play (for that night). I have never used red.

Yellow on the other hand would just be to slow down and let me catch my breath. I have never used this either, but just because I forget the word. I have just asked him in words "may, we please slow down for a second".

He has told me from the very beginning that he would not tolerate in any way shape or form topping from the bottom. I would consider what your playmate was doing to be an attempt at that.

 

[Life_Noir]

Yeah...That would generally fall into the category of BS...
*grin*
Hmmm... If you should play with her again.. Try making it clear what the safeword is for..Then if she uses it the way she did before...Stop everything.
{which is what I do if the safeword makes it's appearance anyway}
*shrug*
Try explaining the difference to her..If she just doesn't get it..Then well, find a different playmate.

 

[JMohegan]

If this is her personal preference, a bottom has the right to say: I only want to participate in activities that interest me in the moment. She also has the right to say: I don't want my limits pushed.

It's her body and her absolute right to insist on these terms, if that's what she wants to do.

On the other side of the coin, it is the Top's right to refuse to play if he finds her terms unpalatable.

The misunderstanding described in the opening post could be avoided with better communication/negotiations in advance of the scene.

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

mis's post about using her safe word for the first time got me to thinking...

my playmate and I reciently had another sub involved in our playdate. Durring the scene he had me fist her. After about 5 mins of this, she looks up at him and in a very as a mater of fact kind of way tells him that she doesn't feel like fisting today. He being the kind of dom he is, didn't respond to this in the manor she was obviously expecting, but insted shoved her head back into his crotch and ordered me to continue. About 2 mins later she kneels up again and again in a very we will do things my way kind of tone she called her safeword. He told me to stop, and we moved on to a different activity, which again she was not happy with so in the course of that activity, not changing her tone one bit, she safeworded again.

She confided in me later that she thought it was totally rediculous that she had to use her safeword at all, let alone twice. She said she's never had to use it before and she didn't see why she should have had to in this instance.

To me, it seemed like she was topping from the bottom the way she called her safeword. She never said she was upset, she never told us what she was feeling or why she felt she needed to safeword, other than she didn't feel like doing those activities that day. Now I don't think foe one second that Jounar or any dom I've played with would let me for one moment think that I was in charge of the scene and that if I didn't feel like doing something then we wouldn't do it. When I've been permited safewords, I've always felt like I had a responcibility to not use it unless I felt like I was in trouble, and it's always disapointed me when I've even thought about using one.

I also explained to her that he was testing her limits that day a bit. we'd never played with her together and he was trying to see how far he could push her. She admited that she knew that's what was going on, and she didn't like that. I told her that the only 2 times I've ever safeworded was when he and I were playing for the first time and he was trying to see what my limits were, and even then I didn't red, I yellowed, and I was so disapointed that I even yellowed that I cried and apologized to him.

To me the whole scene with her safeword seemed disrespectful, but she doesn't understand why. She believes that if she doesn't feel like doing something she shouldn't have to do it, and since he didn't agree her safeword was called.

I guess what I'm really asking is what does a safeword mean to you. Is it a way to get out of something you don't like? or is it only used when you feel paniced? Or something different all together?

I think this is another thing that is different depending on the relationship and if you are going to be involved with others hopefully you all learn and clarify what is the norm for those involved. Kind of like with swingers. Each couple tends to have their own rules and limits and before playing with another couple understanding what those are is important.

Safeword for me is a new concept for us as we are slowly learning together what works for us as a couple. I have a tendency to say no or stop to something that I may want or am not really wanting to stop more out of habit or embarassment of wanting it. In that way the safeword is good because for us me saying no, isn't no. If I say the safeword he know's I need and want whatever to stop. I haven't used it but it's nice to know for both of us since we are trying new things and neither had had "experience" to know that it's safety for us both. In one way it helps him to know what is okay and to be confident that he isn't hurting me which is a big concern for him. If I'm protesting a bit much he will remind me I have my safeword and that also helps me to see that if it's not something really upetting to me then I need to cool it or call it if it is a problem.

Although I haven't had to use it, and doubt I will have to, when I do it will be for something important where I feel either he has lost control or doesn't understand that he has pushed a limit that I feel is hurting me in some way.

Used for something less for us,would mean the safeword losing it's "power" much like the word no had previously. While maybe not being able to do so in the moment I think explaination of why it was called is important as losing that chance to communicate a need, or hurt/wound would be a huge loss.

 

[Netzach]

It sounds like she is a bottom. Did she ever express interest in either of you pushing her limits? Probably poor self-understanding. You also said she's new to you- maybe she's capable of doing that but not with you guys at this particular time. Respect goes in two directions - it's totally disrespectful from your perspective I agree. But it might be just as disrespectful from the other direction that you expect her to throw unfettered access to her pussy to both of you without knowing exactly how she feels about it in any detail and why she *might* consider wanting to stop things and not even talk about it. I think there's probably information there she doesn't want to share.

 

[serijules]

I don't necessarily feel that what she was doing was all that disrespectful, but I would need more information to opinionate for sure. Is she new to the lifestyle, or just new to you both together, or just new to you, or new to him too? Does a RELATIONSHIP exist between her and the dom, or are they just playmates? I think it is unacceptable for a dom to expect submission from a playmate when no relationship dictating that submission exists or is discussed. People throw submission around far too easily and get too judgmental when it comes to bottoming, feeling that if someone "bottoms" then they are not a "real" submissive. Bullshit.

When I play with others (or when I used to), it was purely a mutual play situation where the desires and limits of both partners are taken into consideration. Like Netz said...I was bottoming. There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming when no relationship exists outside of friendship or occasional play. If that is the case, then he should have ASKED her first if she was ok with this or that. She perhaps felt that safewording was the only way of getting him to listen to her needs and wants and again, in a friendship playmate sort of situation, expecting submission to be a part of that unless it is discussed in detail ahead of time is unfair, pushy and disrespectful.

If a D/s relationship existed then yes, she was being a brat and being pushy.

 

[WriterDom]

I also explained to her that he was testing her limits that day a bit. we'd never played with her together and he was trying to see how far he could push her.

Well, I guess he got his answer.

It doesn't sound like much communication was going on before hand.

 

[Chicklet]

Submissive or not, I like to be taken seriously. If I tell my Dom that I can't do something that day, he can try to push it, but I wouldn't tell him I couldn't do it unless I really couldn't do it. I would feel really irritated if I felt I HAD to safeword, and that my 'slowdown' words weren't being taken seriously.

Does this make me a bottom? I don't really care I'm always going to be honest about what I can take and what I can't. Go ahead and push my limits, but they're limits for a reason.

 

[the captians wench]

If this is her personal preference, a bottom has the right to say: I only want to participate in activities that interest me in the moment. She also has the right to say: I don't want my limits pushed.

It's her body and her absolute right to insist on these terms, if that's what she wants to do.

On the other side of the coin, it is the Top's right to refuse to play if he finds her terms unpalatable.

The misunderstanding described in the opening post could be avoided with better communication/negotiations in advance of the scene.

See I'm starting to wonder about this very thing.

When we met her, we each seperately talked to her about what we wanted, what we expected, and how we play. She told us she wanted to be a slave, she wanted to learn how to go deeper. If she had expresed a different target in playing with us, then things might be differet.

She currently has a boyfriend, who she has been leading into d/s and I think that was also melding into this situation.

I did sit and talk to her a bit about what happened, but I didn't mention how I felt that she was disrespectful, and she was still hesitant to tell me what she was feeling and why she felt she needed to safeword.

I've expressed to her from the begining, that when he is in my apt, he is in control. That's how I want it, that's how he wants it, and we thought that's what she wanted.

but really this one experience was not what I intended to dwell on. I really just wanted to see how everyone here viewed the use of safewords.

I know I felt disapointed in myself the two times I yellowed, but on the other hand I understand why he forced it out of me, and mis said something simular. Why is it we feel like we've failed when we safeword?

 

[JMohegan]

but really this one experience was not what I intended to dwell on. I really just wanted to see how everyone here viewed the use of safewords.

My apologies for not responding to the actual question earlier, Wench!

[How is the new store going, by the way?]

I guess what I'm really asking is what does a safeword mean to you.

To me, it means STOP. Period.

It doesn't matter what label she uses as personal ID. Neither does it matter what I think of her motives at the time. If I didn't stop I would be violating the boundaries of consent, which is something I gave my word - my unqualified word - not to do.

What the safeword means to her depends on where we stand in the dating process. I date a woman for quite a while before I extend an invitation of committed D/s.

Once in the committed D/s phase, my expectation is that she will safeword only when she really, truly does not think she can endure any more - for either physical or mental/emotional reasons.

This expectation is explictly stated and formally agreed to. Unless & until I am confident that she fully understands and is able/willing to agree to these terms (among others), I would not extend the invitation to take our relationship to the D/s phase.

I personally believe that submission of this type (safewording only in extremis) is a very significant responsibility that should not be taken lightly by either party.

But regardless of the phase or status of our relationship, what the safeword means to me remains unchanged. She says "Red", I stop. Period.

 

[Chicklet]

Why is it we feel like we've failed when we safeword?

I know what you mean.

I don't know why. I absolutely hate myself for saying "no" to someone, same sort of thing. It takes so much courage for me to tell someone that they're going too far.

I think that there are just so many emotions flying around during play, that when I finally let something go and admit to myself that something is too much, it makes a little bit of disapointment in myself exaggerate into something HUGE, because all my emotions are already in such a strange state. Like when I'm pmsing and just the littlest thing makes me fly off of the handle.

 

[myinnerslut]

......

 

[ecstaticsub]

If I may go out on a tangent a little I have a safeword related question. My Dom and I are discussing more emotional edge play. The problem I see is I am much more confident that I can handle the physical side but the emotional side may be more difficult. I don't want to safeword the action if the physical is fine but emotionally I just need reassurance that yes, he still loves me. I get really into the humiliation mindfuck type of play but as we get deeper I feel I need two safewords-one to stop physical action and a different one not to stop the emotional action but just to get reassurance. This is what we have decided to do but I have concerns about breaking the mood of the play.


He has never done this with any previous subs, has anyone else?

 

[Netzach]

I don't want to safeword the action if the physical is fine but emotionally I just need reassurance that yes, he still loves me.

Why?

If I decide to employ safewords, and I do if we're doing some kind of "push me to tears" experiment, that's why they're there. To make sure there's an emergency brake for either person.

 

[Puman]

To me, it means STOP. Period.

It doesn't matter what label she uses as personal ID. Neither does it matter what I think of her motives at the time. If I didn't stop I would be violating the boundaries of consent, which is something I gave my word - my unqualified word - not to do.

What the safeword means to her depends on where we stand in the dating process. I date a woman for quite a while before I extend an invitation of committed D/s.

Once in the committed D/s phase, my expectation is that she will safeword only when she really, truly does not think she can endure any more - for either physical or mental/emotional reasons.

This expectation is explictly stated and formally agreed to. Unless & until I am confident that she fully understands and is able/willing to agree to these terms (among others), I would not extend the invitation to take our relationship to the D/s phase.

I personally believe that submission of this type (safewording only in extremis) is a very significant responsibility that should not be taken lightly by either party.

But regardless of the phase or status of our relationship, what the safeword means to me remains unchanged. She says "Red", I stop. Period.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Why?

If I decide to employ safewords, and I do if we're doing some kind of "push me to tears" experiment, that's why they're there. To make sure there's an emergency brake for either person.

I guess it is because I don't want to put the brakes on, I don't want to ruin the mood. But I am thinking that when we are deep into the -I am just your fucktoy, nasty slut, degrading humliating type of play that I will need to know that he still values me even though this type of play is something we both want. I just will need a time out, but using "yellow" is something different for us too and just doesn't seem to say specifically what I need in as few words as possilbe.

 

[serijules]

This gets me up in arms every time a topic on safewords comes up, so I'm just going to spew it. I'm NOT directing this at anyone in specific in this thread, just food for thought relating to this failing idea in general.

Those of you that are entertaining ideas of failure and disappointment when you do have to use your safeword?

Cut that shit out. Seriously.

I can guarantee it will annoy the fuck out of most doms to make sure you have a safety net, to make sure you BOTH have a safety net (as the safeword is there for HIS benefit too you know) only to have to continue to worry if the sub is going to not use it for fear of disappointing or whatnot. That worry, that fear....undermines the entire purpose and use of a safeword altogether.

The point of a safeword is a quick, no-confusion-added means of communication to put a stop to something that is potentially or immediately damaging to one or the other in the scene. It's like a tourniquet, a short term, immediate way of stopping the flow of blood until more advanced help can be administered in efforts to save a limb. A safeword is a short-term, immediate form of communication to stop the flow of a scene so more advanced communication can take place to "heal" the problem and can even yes, save a scene or relationship from more serious harm if the issue is not addressed.

I'm really not trying to sound like a bitch here, but I'm likely failing. Sorry about that. Spew = bitchy seri.

If you are going to establish a safeword, use it properly. Let it do the job it is there to do, without making your dominant have to wonder "will she really use it, can I really trust her to use it, or will she suffer through to try to please me?"

No one wants to shoulder that burden. I sure as hell wouldn't.

No decent dom is going to think or say "damn, you really disappointed the hell out of me by ruining that scene and using your safeword over your damn emotional drama again."

If they do? Take if for the huge ass red flag it is and get the hell outta there.

Otherwise, give your partners a little credit.

Ma'am often tells me when I am worrying needlessly about whether or not she is pleased with something I did..."It's no concern of yours. If you displease me, I will let you know."

Edited to add...

This topic just goes to show exactly why you should never allow a safeword to override good old common sense. There are just too many ways that the lack of responsibility or mutual understanding of safewords on either side can cause a heck of a mess. It's just a tool. You need to put the brainpower behind the tool to use too in order for it to be of any use at all.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I think that safewords should be negotiated by the people involved, and that means the lines of communication need to be opened, and each person needs to have the same frame of reference and the same understanding of what will occur.

I also would never push a limit of a submissive I did not know well. But that is me. I do not "play" unless it is a play party within my Femdom community. We know each other and we have information we have shared with each other about our submissives.

As for my own submissives, we have established goals for the relationship, and within the confines of that I can pretty much do as I please. They know when and how to use their safewords. And I am always looking myself to make sure things do not get out of hand.

 

[Flamestorm06]

My ideas

Alright, i may not have that much experience, and i'll fully admit that. But what i do know is that if i use the safeword, its only because i absolutely Have to stop, because i've lost feeling in a limb, or i think something tore. Using the safeword just because you don't want to do something doesn't work to well, instead what i've done in those kind of situations is explain how i feel to my dom, and usually we work something out so i'm not going to have lasting marks (hard to explain those in my living situation) and he still gets what he wants. All in all it seems to work better.

 

[nh23]

i have never used my safeword..but we did run into a situation one day where what we were doing was an emotional trigger for me and i was so overwhelmed that i forgot that i could use my safeword. He stopped when i burst into tears because he realized that i was in no shape to remember to use my safeword. He just held me and comforted me until i was myself again and we resumed play. i like knowing that i have my safeword there if i need to use it..but i like more that he pays very close attention to how i am reacting and knows to stop just like in this case where i was unable to use it.